Alternate energy vehicles

[alejandrofromcuba]

Does anyone know anything about steam powered automobiles? I was reading about them (in a very cursory way) and it seems that they worked very well--and that was 80-90 years ago. Imagine a car that runs on water! Later models collected the steam and recondensed it--so the water did not have to be replenished so often.

The flaws were--
1) They could not outcompete Ford with his production line assembly

and
2) the starter sucked--they had to "warm up" for as much as 30 minutes. (modern technology could fix this).

Why do you think we don't make steam vehicles anymore? I thought they may be hazardous--but it turns out they are LESS likely to explode or catch on fire than gasoline powered automobiles. Very ecologically friendly too!

[DrWeird]

1. What's the power source?

Coal?

[alejandrofromcuba]

3. no--just plain old water!!!

Water. They ran on water. like the Stanley Steamer.

I just visited an old auto museum and was surprised to learn that the first cars ran on water! I can understand that Ford outcompeted them and drove them out of business--but why can't we go back to them?

In the energy crisis we always talk of developing new ways--but it seemed like they already had pretty decent transportation---

Although the ride was bumpy--the tires were thin. A small price to pay--and probably modern engineering could fix many of these quirks. Plus roads are a lot better now....I just wonder if anyone knows more about this.....

[DrWeird]

5. water doesn't boil itself.

You need to burn fuel to heat the water.

[Kazak]

2. How do you suppose the steam is produced?

:eyes:

[alejandrofromcuba]

6. boiler--pressurized

heated in a boiler. I was all over the museum car asking questions! But--they are actually less likely to explode or catch fire than gasoline engines.

They were VERY complicated to drive--had more gadgets and levers than an airplane!!

[AngryAmish]

4. They don't work on water

Water was there to convert heat into kinetic energy. I saw a car show with Jay Leno and some guy with a mustache driving Leno's steam car. Long warm up time, huge torque. But imagine a crash with a superheated steam cylinder -huge explosion and burns galore.

[alejandrofromcuba]

8. not what I was told....

yes definitely large warm up time. That was a major flaw.

But people at National Auto Museum said very unlikely to explode or burn. Cited statistics etc. hmmmm

t is definitely worth a look. It seems like solar etc are far away--but obviously we used to have cars that ran plenty good without gas---perhaps they need improvements--but modern engineering may be able to fix the old flaws....it is worth a look to me...

[AngryAmish]

9. Why are modern locomotives deisel/electric or electric

Every time one changes energy from one form to another there is a heat loss (on earth). So to create heat for steam one has to have a chemical reaction (burning fuel) to heat a tank. Much of that heat radiates to space. Then it has to heat a steam cylinder (which also radiates heat). Then the stam cylinder has to push a cylinder (friction loss) then the steam that pushes the cylinder is vented to the atmosphere (more heat loss).

An internal cumbustion engines is much more efficient because the chemical reaction (burning fuel) creates the direct explosion that creates the kinetic energy.

[physioex]

17. Good question...

Here is the problem...How would you connect such a big engine to the wheels mechancially? Anwswer, it would take a very complicated mechanical system or some types of clutches or torque converter and then you would need gears.

Why use electric motors? Electric motors can produce a tremendous amount of torque at lower rpms. This is what is required to get the train moving. Plus there is no need for a transmission.

The key to moving heavy loads is the ability to produce torque at low rpms. This is why diesel engines are preferred in trucks.


No an internal combustion engine is not very efficient. At the most say 10%, but it is more efficient than a external combustion engine say a steam locomotive. The problem with the external combustion engine is the fact that you cannot vary it's speed rapidly and produce torque in those variations...

Any furthur questions? :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Oh, you can get much more efficient than 10%

how about this one at over 50%?



OK, that's fairly extreme (not many vehicles can take a 2300 ton engine) but it also says typical automotive engines are at about 25% thermal efficiency.

[serryjw]

7. My next car!

http://www.rhoadescar.com/jumpshow.htm

No car registration cost
No gas
No maintainence costs
No car insurance
No parking problems
The worst thing that can go wrong is a flat tire!

[dutchdemocrat]

10. In Holland

My wife drives one of these... With bike roads in Holland it is totally safe.



and I (or her sometimes) carry one of these behind my mountain bike.





Here's a cool rig.

[alejandrofromcuba]

13. NICE!!!

I LOVE your rigs! You look like you are having a great time too!

I am very unhappy about the energy situation. I do like the hybrid engines that are becoming more popular and that is what I currently drive--but would really like to see even less dependence on gas and oil.

Unfotunately public transportation in America is either non-existant or terrible. I bike quite a bit (usually that is how I go to work--I have a 3 mile trip each way), but the roads can be very unsafe for it in many places. And I know lots of people who have very long communtes, not practical for biking and too expensive to live close to work. I wish something could be done.

I tell people that even if they drill in Alaska or wherever--it would just be a drop in the bucket. What we need is to be free of this addiction!

One thing I have done is this--I own a small business---any employee who wants to use public transportation--I pay for it. So if you work for me and want to use Amtrek or the bus--whatever--I pay the whole cost. That is the way I can help. Still--the services are so bad--that not all can take advantage of it. I have nearly 400 persons working for me--only about 60 use public transportation. I do what I can.

[alejandrofromcuba]

14. more

I forgot to say that I also allow people to telecommute if desired and that I encourage them to do so on Spare the Air days (days when the air quality is poor). Staying at home and not using a vehicle on these days is very helpful to the environment.

[serryjw]

20. Hey.......Thanks for being part of the solution

any employee who wants to use public transportation--I pay for it.

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Steam is possible...

but not very likely.

Steam turbines are remarkably efficient, and that's why they're so common in electricity production.

But, in a car, you have to burn something to make the steam, and then you have to recycle the steam and build some complicated gearing to smoothly change the car's speed.

It is possible to make a 200HP steam engine the size of a football. But, it would take a "radiator" the size of football goalposts to be able to to cool off the steam and convert it back to water so the cycle could start all over agian.

Steam engines don't have the throttle response internal combustion engines have, so you can't just step on the gas and go faster, or take your foot off and slow down. There would be a lot of complicated plumbing around that football-sized engine to get decent drivability.

[AngryAmish]

12. You seem to know a lot more about this than I do

I saw that one TV show. Maybe I was really wrong re torque on steam engine. Was it more like a jet engine with really low torque but huge high end power.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. I'm not an expert,...

but I'm pretty sure turbines are lousy at low end torque but efficient at high speeds, while steam pistons are the opposite.

[OneBlueSky]

16. not a steamer, but kinda interesting (and cool looking) nonetheless . . .

JetCar

http://www.jetcar.de/english/



on edit: sometime in the past few months, I did read something about steam-powered cars . . . can't find it right now, but will keep looking . . .

[pnorman]

18. Here's one web link I found:

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/

There are plenty of others, that I'll check out later today. I've been working aboard US merchant ships all my working life, and in the engine room. A little diesel seatime towards the end, but mainly steam. Naturally, Stanley Steamers fascinated me, and from what I could gather, they were really amazing.

I put it all out of mind until now, when this thread reawakened my interest. I'll probably be spending the rest of the week surfing the web on this topic. THANKS.

pnorman