Michael Moore praises Wesley Clark

[ignatiusr]

Hopefully this can put to rest the "Clark is a Republican," or "Clark will/should run as a Republican" posts. Michael Moore was just at a press conference in Belfast and he got started on the 9 current candidates. He said he would vote for any Dem, as long as they could beat Bush. Moore went on to say that he thought Howard Dean was alright, as well as Kucinich.

But Moore said that the candidate that most intrigued him was Clark, and that he would really like to see him join the race. He described him as "a 4-Star General, a Rhodes Scholar and a Democrat." He then went on to describe his positions, saying Clark would repeal the Bush tax cut, as well as many other things. He called his stances on the issues "actually quite good." He said he thought it would be interesting to see a debate between Clark and Bush, calling it the debate between "the General and the deserter."
Great stuff.

Here's the exact quote:

"As I suggested to people at the press conference earlier, Dennis
Kucinich is good, Al Sharpton is good, but there's a ... I would
love to see this. There's a four-star general . . . he used to be
the commander of NATO. His name is Wesley Clark. He was a Rhodes
scholar. He's a Democrat. He would repeal the Bush tax cut for the
rich. He submitted a brief in support of affirmative action to the
Supreme Court. He's pro-choice. I could go down the list, and he's
actually quite good on all the issues -- and he's a general. I would
just love to see the debate between the general and the deserter.
(Applause.) So if the Democrats really wanted to win, they should
run somebody who could win -- and that would be an interesting race."

And here's a link to hear him on audio:

http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=7594

It's in the Q & A section, at about 14:35.

[SweetZombieJesus]

1. Further enhancing my unease with Clark...

But I've gone on enough Michael Moore rants by now that people get that I don't think he's the genius a lot of people here make him out to be.

[ignatiusr]

6. Moore

Yeah, I think Michael Moore is a cool guy; I don't know about genious. But the main point to be gleaned from this is that Clark is a Democrat in every sense.

[MattNC]

21. glad someone else

here feels the way I do about Moore.

[ronnykmarshall]

2. b, b, but ...... that can't be!!

[tjdee]

3. Well lookie lookie lookie.

Very interesting.

Labor Day can't come soon enough.

I really want to see if this guy is as good as all the hype.

[Kahuna]

11. the "progressive's" Pied Piper, likes Clark. Will wonders never cease?

Seems that Moore has learned a very important lesson from 2000. His voice will be very important to make others see the errors of their ways.

The error is that every four years, the liberal/progressive crowd nominates for the rest of us a candidate that can't win. In my almost 50 years I've almost never seen it fail.

It seems that Moore wants bushco retired. Period. And like many of us, he feels that Clark may be the best candidate to deliver the goods.

[aquart]

4. Moore. That the Nader guy?

I seem to recall something like that.

[VermontDem2004]

5. I like Willie-Should I vote for Kucinich?

[JohnKleeb]

7. it would help :)

btw I know you like Dean, would love to have you on our side :) but I am not that good of a ummm missionary or whatever.

[Uzybone]

8. Music to my ears

"Michael Moore was just at a press conference in Belfast and he got started on the 9 current candidates. He said he would vote for any Dem, as long as they could beat Bush."


This is the Micheal Moore Ive been waiting to hear from.

[ignatiusr]

12. Clarifying

The "he would vote for any Dem" comment should be clarified. He didn't say that verbatim, it was just the general sentiment of his comments on the candidates. He stressed the importance of kicking Bush out of office, and said if it's Howard Dean, Kucinich, etc. that's fine, we just need to make sure our candidate wins. I don't know if we would vote for Lieberman, but definitely sounded like he's willing to go with any reasonable candidate, and his virtual endorsement of Clark is definitely a sign of the fact that his desire to oust Bush is paramount.

[lazarus]

45. well

he was saying that before the 2000 election, too. Had a falling out with Nader when Nader kept campaigning in battleground states.

[Kahuna]

9. Oh hell no! Et tu Mike?

}(

[wndycty]

10. Michael Moore's praise helps

He supported Nader the last time around, so if Moore likes Clark that shows he is attractive to the FAR LEFT and I do not think Moore's praise will scare any centrists away. So people from all sections of the party likes him.

[Minstrel Boy]

22. It helps me

I posted recently about my qualms re nominating a general at this point in history. But if Moore can see Clark's worth, I'm more at ease.

[Ardee]

58. well partly right anyway

Moore split with Nader after Ralph decided not to throw his support to Gore in that all too close election. Moore had a comitment from Nader not to run where it might hurt democrats, but Nader felt his obligation to the Green party outweighed his promise to Mike.....

[Bread and Circus]

13. I hope it says something....

to the gang who assault every Clark post.

Mike is a concerned citizen and a strong
opponent of Bush. He correctly summarized that Clark
is solid on the "issues". Obviously, he does
his research so I hope this will lay the "how
does Clark come down on the issues" canard. His
honest assessment and praise of Clark is much
welcomed and goes to bolster what we Clarksters
have been saying all along.

Clark is a Democrat but also independently minded.
Clark is progressive but is also pragmatic and balanced.
Clark is intelligent and strategic but will appeal to Joe America.
Clark is a military man but smart lefties can see he is a man of peace.
Clark is a hero and a patriot but does not sound "jingoistic"

He is going to restore pride in America and will represent the Democrats well.

[Kahuna]

14. Imagine if Mike would endorse and campaign for Clark???

Boy would that put him over solidly! It's just too delicious to imagine that it could become a reality.

[gully]

15. Clark would scare the hell outta Bush

And, he scares this Dean supporter, I'll tell you that.

But, Goal #1 is BUSH OUT!!!

[Kahuna]

18. Thanks for showing up. I've been wondering..

where the usual suspects are. All I hear is crickets from the Deanies and Dennies.

I can understand that Deanies and Dennies would feel very "concerned" that Moore would seem to endorse a Clark candidacy. If I were in their shoes that's how I would feel. Moore could be quite useful in bringing the factions together if he endorsed Clark. That's why I think the Deanies and Dennies are so quiet.

[BoogieBear]

41. Dennis is my man, but I like Clark a lot

My politics are most closely represented by Kucinich, but Clark is left enough for me and I will support him.

I think we need to also look beyond winning the White House, because we will need a Prez who is savvy enough to contain the GOP thugs in Congress, and eventually show them the door. I have a feeling Clark would be able to do just that.

[newyawker99]

63. Hi BoogieBear!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Kucinich04]

43. CLARK/KUCINICH 04, BABY!!!

Personally, I don't think DK is Presidential Material just yet anyway. I DO think he'd make an EXCELLENT VP choice for someone, however. And there is nobody else on even considering running for whom DK would make a BETTER running mate in my eyes than with General Clark. Clark as Pres. Candidate will immediately shut up the "Dems are Weak on Defense" line from the Limpballs of the world. he will just look STUPID spouting that line if we nominate Clark (not that that has ever stopped him before). And I think with DK on Clarks ticket, the Dem base on the left will be happy and less likely to focus on the fact that we've picked a GENERAL when in fact our core issue with bush is his penchant for militarism. The American people will (rightly) see in Gen. Clark a strong leader who would of course utilize our military if in fact such use was necessary to protect our National Security, and in DK a peaceful 'counter-weight' figure who would do everything he could to make sure that all diplomatic avenues were truly exhausted before he endorsed Clark's requesting the sacrifice of our soldiers In the current fear-based climate that bushco has created for us all, the fact that President Clark the General 'outranks' DK the pacifist will signal to the People that the Dems priority is on defense if necessary, but that we do favor a real voice of reason having some say in the decision.

In short, I am absolutely ALL FOR a Clark/Kucinich ticket. DK with just about anybody else would be a recipe for disaster, as it will be too easy for the media to peg the ticket as 'radical left' and 'weak on defense'. I don't think there's anybody who tempers the 'leftness' of DK like Clark does, and nobody would get the far left to support a General for President like DK WOULD.

[ignoranceisstrength]

60. Clark/Kucinich!

The best of the Democratic party.

[ignatiusr]

34. Well

He came closer to endorsing Clark than he did of any of the other candidates. If he announces, it very well could happen.

[jiacinto]

16. This shocks me

How on earth could Moore support a military general? Well I do hope that he does not play a negative role in 2004. But I am still very skeptical in regard to him. But this does sound interesting.

[chaska]

20. Why shocked?

I've been telling anyone that would listen that I'm to the left of the MMs of the political world. If you look at Clark's positions, well, I'd feel more comfortable with Clark than Clinton. The guy is a liberal/progressive. And because he appears not to be he can get stuff done. Stuff that we want done.

[Kahuna]

24. A "liberal" general, Carlos. There's a biiiiiiig difference.

I'm surprised that you can't see that.

[jiacinto]

25. I am still suprised

that Moore isn't calling him a "baby killer".

[Kahuna]

26. Gotcha!

:D

Extreme times call for extreme measures. Since the bushies like to remind us every single day that, 'we're at war,' I say let's take it to them. While I'll admit that my initial and main attraction to Clark is that he can usurp the national defense issue, I'm impressed with the man as a whole. I feel one hundred percent comfortable at this time investing in him.

[lazarus]

64. do you have any evidence

That Moore has, in the past, called any of our saldiers "baby killer"? Or is this just something you wish he would say?

[Mz Pip]

17. Sometimes I like Moore

Sometimes I don't.

This is one of the times I do. The debate between the general and a deserter would be sweet. :-)

MzPip
:dem:

[Kahuna]

19. Hey Gurl! This is indeed very encouraging.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[alfredo]

44. One thing about Moore.

some people see him as a grandstander, but not really. He hates being in front of the camera, he is scared shitless when he confronts some very bad men, but he gets up the courage to do these things.

[TheBigGuy]

23. I sure didnt expect this....Mike Moore?

well..not exactly endorsing Clark, pretty much saying nice things about him.....

[chaska]

27. There's this too:

From usnews.com:

"And insiders tell our Suzi Parker that Democrats are becoming interested in the Arkansan, the one possible Democratic candidate whose military and national security credentials can’t be questioned. We learn, for example, that House Democratic
Leader Nancy Pelosi recently reached out to Clark in a phone call and that Arkansas Democratic officials are trying to move up the state’s presidential primary to give the native an early victory next year."

[Kahuna]

28. ARGGGH! (head exploding) Am I in an alternate universe?

I thought Pelosi had endorsed Gephardt? What's going on here.

I tell ya, I knew that General has been "auditioning" with all of those TV and radio appearances. I know for certain that when he announces his organization will be ready. I hope it doesn't appear that is organization has been in place all along. A lot of people wouldn't like that. The media may also turn on him because they'll feel like they got played.

[tjdee]

35. The media will eat that right up.

A big entry to shake up things??

Oh they'd love it.

He'd better have his sh** together, that's all I'm concerned about.
He seems to have the pat "Dem answers": pro-choice, progressive tax, etc., but I want to hear his plans and vision for the country before all my eggs go in his basket. Not to mention I'm fairly invested in Johnny Reid at this time.

Though, I've said it before, I'll say it again, any combination of Clark/Edwards would make me very comfortable.

[goforit]

29. I like Clark too! But, if he supported the Iraq war, I won't support him

at all!

Iraq was just plain murder for profit!

[ignatiusr]

30. He didn't

He didn't support the war. He said so on Aaron Brown just two nights ago, and has said so repeatedly over the past several months. So don't worry about that.

[Kahuna]

31. He didn't. So all of these inuendos about, ..

"the military industrial complex" are ridiculous. People type those three words and never offer any justification as to how they apply to Clark.

[tjdee]

37. It's always amusing, isn't it?

As an Edwards supporter, sometimes I encounter those kind of blanket statements.

Lawyers are this that the other thing.

Now, apparently, being a general is as bad as being a lawyer. George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Ike Eisenhower.... uh.... ignore them.

[Bushknew]

32. So why isnÕt Clark running?

I want Bush out as much as the rest of you do, and I would support Clark in
a heartbeat if Moore is correct about him being a progressive Democrat.

And if Moore says heÕs a progressive then I trust him.

[Kahuna]

33. We should know in a couple of weeks. Clark was just on ...

CNBC, Capital Report. Same blah blah. Nothing really new. The short interview should be on digitalclark.com in a couple of days.

[VoteClark]

48. You need to go to the Website

www.draftwesleyclark.com and read under his issues. He is the most progressive there is right now.


:kick:
J4Clark

[Fescue4u]

36. Thats to bad, Clark sounded pretty good.

Now that I hear a loon like Moore is endorsing him, proably need to rethink things.

[no_arbusto]

38. A few months ago I would have said no way to Clark

But I'm definitely reconsidering. Just before the war started, I wrote a letter to the editor that caught the attention of one of my father's friends. His son is a lobbyist in DC and there was a lot of buzz going around about Wesley Clark. He gave me a couple of articles about the guy, and I said "You've got to be kidding me. I'm protesting the war and you're expecting me to consider voting for a general?"

However, the more I find out about the guy, the more I like him. There are definitely two different sides to the American military and I believe that Clark represents what is good about it and BushCheneyRumsfeld represent the bad. Clark, as a distinguished general, would respect our military by not leading them into a quagmire like Iraq. BushCheneyRumsfeld are chickenhawk opportunists who are fighting wars for their corporate crook buddies. Clark would tear these guys a new asshole. I'm sure there are a lot of military people who would feel the same way.

I'm still going to keep the ball rolling with Dean because he's gaining momentum, and that's great for any Democrat at this point. But I'm not counting out Clark. In fact, I think Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark would be an interesting ticket.

[Zuni]

59. Dean/Clark dream ticket

would be the best ticket in 2004. I think they could topple the Bush Junta

[Cocoa]

39. Moore knows nothing about Clark

not that that would stop Moore from talking about him. I don't really care about that, but it just means that Moore's comments don't mean very much.

And I don't think his military actions will hold up to Moore's standards. Moore is basically a pacifist, as I understand it. I guess I could go back and check what he's written about Bosnia and Kosovo. I assume he would agree with the people that call Clark a war criminal.

edit: Here's Moore writing about Kosovo. I don't think it makes sense for Moore to even consider voting for Clark, and doesn't make sense to suggest he resembles Kucinich or Sharpton.

http://www.commondreams.org/kosovo/views/mmoore.htm

[ignatiusr]

40. Huh?

How could we possibly know what Moore knows about General Clark? There's a lot to know, I know a lot, and so do a helluva lot of other people. As politically focused as Moore is, why would we assume he knows nothing about him? Most politically savvy people in America do. He would have to be pretty darned ignorant not to already know what Clark's role in Kosovo was. So if he praised him today, well aware of that fact, and said he wanted him running, then I think it's safe to say that he certainly doesn't seem him as a "war criminal." That would be an extremely bizaare contrast. The only people I've ever seen call Clark a war criminal are neoconservatives. There was a "war crimes" suit filed against Clinton, Clark, and the leaders of every other major country in the world. But, suffice it to say, Moore is not a part of that crowd.


*Edit* in response to Cocoa's link to the Moore article.

The problem with this article is that it wasn't being written in retrospect, it was written during the war itself. And now, looking at in retrospect, he was fundamentally wrong about how the war would play out. Read this excerpt:

"Bombing didn't work for either side in World War II. Hitler bombed Britain mercilessly for years, but it didn't work. Our bombing did nothing to save the lives of 6 million Jews, 4 million Catholics, Gypsies and other "undesirables," and 20 million Russians. Our bombs couldn't even take out one German machine-gun on top of the cliffs overlooking the beaches of Normandy. World War II was won because my father and uncles and your fathers and grandfathers risked their lives pouring out of amphibious carriers like sitting ducks on a beach, crawling through the dead bodies of their friends and fellow soldiers, and climbing up those cliffs in France and Italy and the South Pacific. Over a quarter of a million of them, including my uncle, died doing this.

And that, my friends, as some are known to say, is the awful truth. If genocide is really taking place, the only way to stop it militarily is to send our children in there and accept the fact that thousands upon thousands of them will be killed. Are you willing to do that? Or better yet, this is the question I always ask myself when confronted with whether or not I should ever support a war: Do I believe strongly enough in this cause that I MYSELF would be willing to risk my life to go over there and square it with my conscience to kill Yugoslavians."

His analysis- The cause is not worth the price of the war, because the aerial bombardment will not be effective enough. It will take years to achieve victory, and thousands of dead American troops.

The reality- The aerial bombardment worked. Slobodan Milosevic was ousted and arrested. It was the first war in American history without a single American fatality.

I suppose that it's possible that Moore is not as critical of the war in retrospect. If he was this aware of the war at that time, obviously he knew who Clark was, and still knows who he is. And now, he's virtually endorsing him for president. So something in his mind must have changed.

Like I said, I'm not an enormous fan of Moore's, but I do think he's a cool guy in many ways. And the main point is, when people like him are supporting Clark, there shouldn't be any question whether he's a Democrat or not.

[tameszu]

42. Maybe comparing Iraq (II) with Kosovo

made Moore rethink his view of the latter? Since Moore might manipulate the facts sometimes, but he's no moron.

Certainly the latter sure looks like a masterpiece of humanitarianism, maybe even if you're pacifist, doesn't it?

A lot of lefties (myself sorta included) may have grumbled a bit about Clinton and we still moan about the DLC, but here's 3 words that changed our tune pretty fast: George W. Bush.

Moore also endorsed Nader during the last election, presumably because he also agreed that there isn't a whit of difference between the Dems and the GOP. He seems to have learned on that issue, so he may also have learned on Kosovo: compared to Iraq, that mission was practically pristine, both in justification and execution. And the rest of the world's liberal democracies agree. Including the UN's International Criminal Court, which entertained but dismissed war crimes charges against all of the NATO leaders who prosecuted the Kosovo intervention (I should also add, that unlikely many U.S. military figures who scoff at these UN war crime tribunals, Clark gave the International Criminal Tribunal in Yugoslavia significant support).

ADDENDUM: "The cause is not worth the price of the war, because the aerial bombardment will not be effective enough. It will take years to achieve victory, and thousands of dead American troops."

Good analysis--and it's ALSO worth noting, that of the entirely U.S. military and political, Clark pushed the HARDEST for U.S. ground troops to go into Kosovo. This is part of the reason the Pentagon got so annoyed at him.

Mike Moore stretches the truth and can be a bit of a prick. But he's no moron. His support of Clark shouldn't make you necessarily want to vote for Clark; what it should indicate is that he's no Republican and is unlikely to be a DINO.

[Cocoa]

61. I think Moore is knee-jerk anti-Dem

he doesn't want to support any candidate that might win.

That way, he can feel free to trash the president if the dems win. Moore can always be righteous.

This is coming from someone who loves Moore's movies, by the way. I'm just saying that his comments about the candidates aren't worth very much to me.

[Kahuna]

62. Point taken. Moore can turn on you in a heartbeat.

nt

[Pastiche423]

46. You don't understand sarcasm

when you hear it? lol

You apparently know very little about Michael Moore. Read Michael's very own words about how it felt about Kosovo, then come back and tell me he changed his mind.

Incredible desperation and Clark isn't even running!

:eyes:

[ErasureAcer]

49. Ahh, this is sarcasm...I guess I should listen to the clip.

That would make more sense. If I recall correctly, Moore didn't have too much good to say on Kosovo in "Stupid White Men". That was a good book, I read it all in one day...about 8 hours, slow reader here. Guess I'll have to go read those passages again.

[tameszu]

51. You should definitely listen to the clip...but you'll be hard pressed

to hear sarcasm. But if you do discover the verbal cue I missed, let me know.

[tameszu]

50. Whaaa? You apparently listened to very little of Michael Moore speaking

Not even a touch of sarcasm in that segment.

Moore was answering the following question straight up:

"We natives only hear from the media the pro-Bush stance....Howard Dean is he a possibility on the Democrat side?"

"If he was the name on the ballot against Bush, I'd vote for him. I'm not endorsing him, but I would vote for him to remove Bush, absolutely...."

(the Moore explains how there are definitely Americans who are really pissed at Bush, then says "If it's Howard Dean, fine," then goes to quote above)

If he hasn't reevaluated Kosovo as I argued above, then either he forgot about Clark's role in Kosovo (very unlikely), or he doesn't hold Clark personally responsible for it, or Moore doesn't care because he very badly wants to beat Bush. Quite possibly the latter, since it's clear he hates Bush and he wants a Dem to win. No supporting a Green for him this time.

It eludes as to me how you could fail to understand why many progressives want to support Clark. It's because they think he can beat Bush--negating *'s stupid yet effective tactic of making Americans scared and therefore receptive to the GOP message--and replace * with someone who, while not perfect, would be a significant improvement.

It's as simple as that. No sarcasm. Sheesh.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

53. Those Straws You're Grasping at Keep Moving Higher (eom)

[ErasureAcer]

47. I like Moore but this isn't good enough

Yeah, Clark may be against all the Bush issues that destroyed the country...but who in their right mind isn't? We need more. We need a vision for the future...and that is why I will continue to support Dennis Kucinich. He has a plan of equality, justice, and peace that can be rivaled by no other.

If Clark is so good, Kucinich will give him a job in his cabinet.

[Kahuna]

52. Clark has offered up his very own life to preserve the constitution...

and all of those good things you mentioned that go with it. I'm most certain that Clark has a vision for preserving and protecting our constitutional rights.

In my view, when the laws under the constitution are properly administered the country, its citizens and the world are always better off. If we don't get rid of bushco he will have a mandate to continue his assualt on our rights. We'd all better make getting bushco our top priority.

[HootieMcBoob]

54. Clark will announce soon

This is my prediction. It sure looks like he's been setting it up for a long time now. More predictions: He'll win the nomination. He'll get tons of press. He'll beat Bush in a landside.

Clark, in my opinoin, is clearly the most electable of the lot. And, even better, he seems to be very progressive on the issues, even issues of national security and the military. He's way ahead of the curve.

Clark is the one candidate who not only can win but the man who has it within himself to bring this badly divided country together again. He -- is the one.

Check out the New Democrat meeting link at the top. He has "the vision thing"
http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=wesley+clark&image1.x=0&image1.y=0

[lindashaw]

55. Hi, Hootie, do I know you from Ultima?

AFter seeing Clark on Capitol Report last night, I just don't think he'll run. I wish he would, but...he appeared very reluctant last night.

[HootieMcBoob]

57. nope must be a different hootie

I hope he does. In all of the interviews I've seen so far it's looked to me like he was going to. Maybe i'm just being hopeful. What did he say that made you think that?

[quirked]

56. New short Newsweek interview with Clark

This is a good one ...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/953102.asp

Dave K.
-------------------------------
http://wesleyclark.blogspot.com
-------------------------------

[Starpass]

65. Oh,God, NOT Clark...no, no, never ,not ever

..we wouldn't want to actually WIN would we???---it's so much better that we all come together on election night and do a group hug and "love in" as we watch 49/50 states glow red and the US Congress gutted of Dems as we declare that we are proud to be "liberal". Then we would have four lovely, wonderful years to bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch..... Oh, and Aaron Brown tried to draw Clark out; Clark played cool and careful; but then Brown said "don't you agree that if you come in now it's just too late"??----Clark bit and said that wasn't true, blah, blah. That to me said, "I'm running". We need a fireworks display as the true "season" kicks in after Labor Day because two-thirds of Americans cannot name even ONE Dem candidate----that's how much a ball of excitement we are even with the media giving us a wee little time here and there. Who could resist the comparison of the General and the little boy who likes to play dressup and hang around the 'boys' on the carrier??? As his website guys said on C-Span: Clark was being shot at in Nam while Bush was bombed in Texas. NOW THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF THAT GRABS AMUREKA!!!