You want tinfoil? I got tinfoil. (re: the blackout, damned interesting)

[WilliamPitt]

3 Northeast States Win Verdict Against a Utility
By Jennifer Lee
New York Times

Thursday 07 August 2003

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/080903J.shtml

WASHINGTON, Aug. 7 - A federal judge ruled today that an Ohio utility violated the Clean Air Act when it failed to install better pollution controls at a coal-burning power plant. The ruling was an important victory for New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, which along with the Environmental Protection Agency brought the case decided today and have filed similar suits against some of the nation's largest power companies.

The decision, by Judge Edmund A. Sargus Jr. of Federal District Court in Columbus, not only was a defeat for the utility, Ohio Edison, but also could set a precedent for those other cases against a generation of aging power plants scattered throughout the Midwest and the Southeast that have avoided updating their pollution controls.

...more...

One week later, and POOF. The lights go out.

[kentuck]

1. And they thought it started in Ohio ??

:tinfoilhat:

Don't mess with the Big Power guys...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Hey Will...

Did you see the runup in stock prices, over the 4 days prior to the blackout, for Chloride, the british company that makes the shutdown security stuff. Highly provocative, that.

[9215]

27. I missed that. Do you have a link or two?

?

[GOPisEvil]

3. Wow! Interesting!

:tinfoilhat:

[salmonhorse]

4. It's time to employ some aspect of the Rico Act ~

http://www.oz.net/~angelac/rico/more.html

[htuttle]

5. Hmm...Ohio Edison played a crucial part in the cascade effect

According to an ABC article, part of the problem was that Ohio DID NOT remove itself from the energy grid as it was supposed to, and that's how it spread East.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/power030815_GMplant.html

The Ohio power company failed to separate from the national electric grid, as it was supposed to and as Michigan did. Thus the cascade of problems was sent on to New York.

"The system is designed to isolate itself to protect that area, to have the area go down and have the rest of the system survive. And instead it spread further and longer than it should have," said Michehl R. Gent, president and CEO of the North American Electric Reliability Council.

A spokesman for the Ohio power company, FirstEnergy Corp., said it had followed all proper procedures but would not comment specifically on whether it had triggered the huge blackout by failing to separate.

"If they had separated you might have seen a region in Ohio area that would have been without power, but you would not have seen it in almost a national scale, as we did," Divan said.

Ohio Edison is owned by FirstEnergy corp.

[NYC]

8. This seems to be a multifaceted problem.

There is so much going on behind the scenes.

[Junkdrawer]

10. The general consensus, here and with Greg Palast seems to be...

that profit hungry power companies gutted regulations, short changed maintenance, and, now that the inevitable results have occurred, are ready to sock the taxpayers and the ratepayers with the bill for the upgrade of the system. And guess who's going to lead the PR charge?

[PATRICK]

23. Regardless

It won't be long before they manipulate the event just this way whether they LIHOP or MIHOP. It makes agency nearly irrelevant. They game everything their way so that you could almost blame them for a rainy day when they started price gouging on umbrellas.

Shoddiness itself IS a plan. Vote machines that are "glitchy", Homeland Security with a swiss Cheese structure. Fertile ground for "interesting times" for the BFEE.

Again, it is enough of an issue how absolutely, inflexibly the Bush WH EXPLOITS everything for their own ends, the public welfare or anything else be damned.

Otherwise, it would be nice to PROVE just one time their agency behind the event. Of course, as in the Iraq lies, even that is not enough. The gun needs a special, shocking flavor of smoke?

[spanone]

33. Remember Bush said re Grid problem: "I've always said that"

What a fucking liar. He knew by saying this that there would be political repercussions. That's why he didn't speak live.

[Warpy]

11. That might be true, but remember

....that thanks to deregulation begun just before Daddy Bush left office, compliance with this stuff is purely voluntary. All the finger-pointing will come to nothing because of the voluntary nature of the transmission protocols.

That is, unless they get some pimply kid somewhere and accuse him of hacking the system at some power plant in the boonies in Ohio...

[xray s]

6. Whether this was a tin foil moment or not...

...one thing is sure. Bush will use this to try to ram through his energy program and gut environmental laws and regs.

[salmonhorse]

9. And this is where the greatest shame resides...

Rampant right-wing gutting of environmental; indeed, natural law and the institution of de-regulation have rend America into thee hypocritical laughing stock of the 'new world order'.

'new world order' my ass. It's the same ole shit and everybody knows it ~

[KoKo]

7. Welcome to the :tinfoilhat: Society, Will! We all wonder in our hearts IF

that's a possiblility.....or what else is a possibility.....

They know where the "Relay Switches" failed.......it's easy to locate.....they've reported in the last power failures...but now....we have to wait....sort of like investigating "Wellstone's Plane Crash..."

But then......I'm a "fringe" DU'er a :tinfoilhat: er........so we live in our "own little worlds".........wondering because there's never an answer that really seems "truthful." So we remain.....:tinfoilhat: out of "Desperation."

[salmonhorse]

13. Bon Jour ~

http://www.unknowncountry.com :tinfoilhat:

[maryallen]

14. That Gent fellow who ...

Has been all over the tv talking about the black-out, looked pained. He looked disgusted, maybe even a little bit afraid.

Gent made some cryptic remark regarding the fact that he would reveal the truth of what caused this ... no matter where it led.

Yeah, where have we heard that one before? Anthrax? 16 words? 9/11?

I won't be holding my breath waiting for a definitive answer.

[donsu]

35. my gosh, I thought the same - just like Wellstone's crash

same M.O.

[hedda_foil]

12. Check out this link for another piece of the puzzle.

VERY interesting developments indeed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

[cosmicdot]

15. hedda, check the link

:hi:

my question: what would happen on election day 2004?
anything? nothing?

[cosmicdot]

17. my question: what would happen on election day 2004?

sorry to repeat myself

anything? nothing?

[maggrwaggr]

36. That's EXACTLY what I'm expecting.

We've all said the admin would come up with something to keep people home on election day. Terrorist fear more than likely, although that would make them look bad.

But this. This is perfect. "Gosh, we'll have to reschedule the election for a later, yet-to-be-determined date. And in the meantime, we TOLD you people we needed to upgrade. But the Dems are holding up our energy bill in Congress."

[hedda_foil]

21. Thanks, cosmicdot. The link is here:

The Blackout Conspiracy Thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=178534

And this one too:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=182703

[soleft]

16. How about this freudian slip by Mayor Bloomberg

Bloomberg was making a statement broadcast on local TV, I was listening to it on the radio, and he said, regarding the blackout -

The president called me the other day, I mean yesterday.

Shades of the FEMA slip re:9/11

[PaDUer]

25. My, my...

aren't they friendly!

[NYC]

30. I heard that.

.

[robbedvoter]

34. Or W's freudian slip "rolling blackout"?

Wrong state same MO. When it comes to energy (or killing) W is not as clueless as you may think.

[SoCalDem]

18. Will, please check into this one..:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=181793

[Beetwasher]

19. Yeah, that's some pretty fucked up shit right there

n/t

[Wickster]

20. Just another example of our Government playing terrorist,

in my opinion. We need to be kept frightened and what is more frightening than being in the dark. With my triple lined tin foil hat in place, I believe that (because of the federal judge's decision against the utility) Ohio, NY, NJ and CT were given a very strong "warning" yesterday. Just like California was a few years ago.

The reason that aging power plants have avoided updating their pollution controls is that it would cost too much (i.e., they might have to spend corporate money) to meet the Clean Air Standards required of new or updated machines. If they do nothing but routine maintenance, they do not have to upgrade grandfathered systems to new Clean Air Standards. However, the problem goes deeper. The Standards are not standard. Over polluting power plants can buy "credits" that reduce their harmful emissions numbers. They buy them from "under-polluting" power plants! A travesty in my opnion - but just one among many.

I had a Lead Engineer at a power plant tell me today that it was the environmentalists at fault. I could not let him get away with that. It is the government regulation writers and congress at fault - Standard enviornmental standards are a necessity. Afterall, it is the quality of the air we breathe that we need to consider.

Besides, this whole thing smells like they want more power plants (thank you GE) and for nuclear plants to be licensed again.

I work with the industry. Although accidents happen (when the grid is affected it is usually from lightning, hurricanes, or some other natural event), 50-million-people-affected blackouts should never happen -- not with the redundant control systems they have these days. Stand by. New power plants are coming to fields near you.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. And the fiddling around to meet the standards -- overpolluters

using credits bought from underpolluters -- has led to a decrease in air quality, to which is attributed the large increase in asthma cases in children and adults. But, hey, Kenny Boy Lay's got his, right?

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[maggrwaggr]

37. Yes. Had terrorists committed the California blackouts

we'd be invading someone right now, calling for their heads.

People DIED in the California blackouts. All because we were being blackmailed. By corporations who are friends of W.

Where's the outrage?

Yes, it's terrorism by our own government. Plain and simple.

[DUreader]

24. kick

[finecraft]

26. Blackout threatened by Entergy on 8/4/03

I live near Lafayette, Louisiana. On August 4, 2003 Entergy issued an ultimatium to the city owned utility system that either they fire up their auxillary generators and keep them on standby, for an undetermined period of time, or they would blackout the city. Entergy didn't want the city to generated any power, but wanted the city to fire the auxillary system up "just in case" they would be needed to be brought on line. The city started the generators on the 8th.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. Kick

I LOVE tinfoil
:tinfoilhat:

[twilight]

29. another kick for tinfoil hats!

:kick:

[Starpass]

31. Do you remember Andy Card's statement of a year ago??

You know the one (regarding Iraq) that you don't introduce a "new line" in summer?? Well, think about it. Soon Congress comes back and Bush's big push is to get his energy bill through. Within it are and will be issues related to "updating" the grid, etc.; BUT as Hillary, Gov. Richardson and Gray Davis pointed out, it's all mixed in with ANWAR and all the other rape and pillage these bastards want. This was the fireworks show. Now the media will constantly cover Bush speeches where he will tell the country that this would already be done (including cheaper oil) if it weren't for the stinking Dems. That is why the Dems have to scream daily the truth about who has jerked us around and why. And, it would be nice on the side to implant the idea that perhaps this wasn't "coincidental".

[whatelseisnew]

32. kick