President Bush: "I will never order torture."

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

Bush: 'I have never ordered torture'
Administration releases memos on detainee treatment
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/22/prisoner.memos/index.html



"Look, let me make very clear the position of my government and our country," Bush said in the Oval Office.

"We do not condone torture. I have never ordered torture. I will never order torture. The values of this country are such that torture is not a part of our soul and our being."

"Our values as a nation, values that we share with many nations in the world, call for us to treat detainees humanely, including those who are not legally entitled to such treatment," Bush wrote in the memo dated February 7, 2002. "Our nation has been and will continue to be a strong supporter of Geneva and its principles."

The memos to and from Rumsfeld show that though the water-boarding technique was on a list of requested aggressive tactics, Rumsfeld did not approve it, officials say.

The list of requested aggressive tactics included:

- Convincing a detainee that death or severe pain could be imminent for him or his family
- Exposure to cold weather or water
- Use of a wet towel or dripping water to induce a perception of suffocating.
- Mild, noninjurious physical contact such as grabbing someone's arm, poking them in the chest or light shoving.

Only the fourth tactic -- mild, noninjurious physical contact -- was approved.

[kentuck]

1. ...again...

he whispered under his breath.

[Solly Mack]

2. Why does that sound so ad hoc?

must be me, I'm sure

[qanda]

3. The english language would disagree!

eom

[eaprez]

4. Writing an Executive Order...

...and creating an environment for it are two different things entirely. Hell I can get my kids and my dogs to do things without directly telling them to -- they know the drill. He's a hypocrite. Our country is a country run by self righteous hypocrites....and filled with citizens that are hypocrites.

[name not needed]

5. "I will never order torture, but my staff will."

[lovedems]

6. From what I gather from these memos is "We wont sign off on this

but it is legal"

That kind of sounds like condoning it if you ask me. :shrug:

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

9. You've gotta love a "list of requested aggressive tactics"...

...I can hear the conversation now:

"You can't do that, it wasn't on the approved list of requested aggressive tactics..."

"Oh, I thought that because you DIDN'T say we COULDN'T do it, it was the same as approving it. OK, I get it now. Hey, you guys...take that fluorescent light tube out of prisoner #342's ass."

[gratuitous]

7. Those crazy guys down in legal!

Gah! You're spitballing about torture, and the next thing you know, somebody's writing a legal memorandum making it look like we're trying to find ways around the constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

They're such pranksters! You have no idea.

[philosophie_en_rose]

8. It's not torture, it's "creative correction"

Next thing you know, they'll be saying that prisoners actually like torture. :eyes:

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

12. Bush: "I will never order a frat hazing"...n/t

[neoteric lefty]

10. he's right

he just winked and nodded

[Eric J in MN]

11. Bush has surrounded himself with crooked lawyers who say that

Bush has surrounded himself with crooked lawyers who say that any law can be legally broken by saying the phrase "military necessity."

By hiring those crooks, he encouraged torture.

[wiggs]

13. Of course, his definition of torture

...is not the same as everyone else's. The Justice Dept narrowly defined torture for him. I would like to know who asked the Justice Department to write the memo in the first place.

[aquart]

14. Well, Georgie, if YOU never ordered it and YOU'RE in charge

how come nobody is following your orders and they are following.....WHOSE, exactly?

Doesn't sound like you have a lot of control here, Georgie, on account there's been one hell of a lot of that torture stuff. Abu Ghraib was just one long Mel Gibson movie, and I don't even want to think of those secret prisons and prisoners like Triple X.

Gosh, Georgie, who IS running the country? And the war?

[Gman]

15. Translation:

I'll deny it and lie my ass off till the day I die in order to keep from being on trial for war crimes.

Very reminiscent of "I'm not a crook."

[AbbeyRoad]

16. Keyword "order"

I heard this soundbite earlier today, and the emphasis on the word "order" really jumped out at me. I think Bush is covering his ass.

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. I'm George W. Bush and I approved this torture

[xray s]

18. by now everyone knows what Bush says means nothing

blah blah blah lie lie lie

All that matters are the facts. And the facts say Bush's legal advice said torture is ok and the Geneva Convention was quaint and unapplicable to the "war on terra". And people were tortured. Some even murdered.

Of course he will never order torture. Plausible denial is SOP when it comes to committing evil deeds. But evil deeds were done. And the thread continues to unwind...

[Eric J in MN]

Bush's crooked lawyers said it isn't really torutre as long as

Bush's crooked lawyers said it isn't really torutre as long as it's less painful than organ-failure, or you BELIEVE the pain you're causing is less painful than organ-failure.

So Bush saying he didn't order "torture" doesn't mean he didn't order what any reasonable person would call torture.

[flewellyn]

19. Well, he didn't order torture...

As Jon Stewart said, what he ordered was called "freedom tickling".

[moondust]

20. "Do what you have to boys."

"To get us what we want."

See, didn't say torture, not prudent.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Jesus, You're Torturing Me Right Now

With that atrocious F*cking suit, among other things.

[meow2u3]

22. ....and other notorious Presidential whoppers:

--I did not have sexual relations with that woman (Clinton)

--I was out of the loop (Bush I)

--I do not recall (Raygun)

--I am not a crook (Nixon)