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Rather than leave the country, why not just forfeit citizenship ?

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:33 PM
Original message
Rather than leave the country, why not just forfeit citizenship ?
If Bush wins in November? Is it possible to do that? Just make a public statement that you no longer want to be a citizen in a nation led by fascists. Would you still have to pay taxes?

But why leave the country you were born and raised? If you no longer feel loyalty to our nation because of the fascist takeover, then what would be the appropriate act of protest? Would it be considered sedition?

What if thousands and thousands were to follow your example? What would the government do to you all? Put you in prison? Send you to Guantanamo? Anybody thought of this scenario? :)
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:37 PM
Original message
here is a link about it
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 06:41 PM by AZDemDist6
http://www.globalassignment.com/4-22-99/renouncing.htm

on edit: I think that if Bush wins again we should all be able to slap republicans with a fish

more gratifying IMO
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you denounce citizenship, would you not then have all the status of
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 06:38 PM by hlthe2b
an "illegal immigrant?" We know how well this country wants to treat them.... I'd assume you would forfeit your social security (assuming there are any benefits), medicare, and how would you travel without a passport?
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eaprez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. That would be awfully dangerous...
...being a noncitizen...being rounded up as suspicious like they did the Japanese.....Think it can't happen? You got a justice department writing memos saying the President is above the law and not even bound by Congress. I wouldn't risk it.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. my feeling is that if Bush does win
we will see no one, as usual, protesting his fascism which is bound to happen.


We will see Kerry and Dashcle and all the rest of the go along to get along Democrats, rolling over and once more , giving Bush the go ahead to do whatever he wants, especially when it comes to war in the ME.

That is a pretty shitty way to think, but it just happens to be the way our country and it's politicians, have been corrupted.

Never believe in what you were taught in the fifth grade . Never. It is not true.

If Bush wins, Kerry will still maintain his seat in the Senate and will be none the worse for it all.

But we the people will be, that is for sure.

The one with the most passion and the most insight and bravery when it comes to battling Bush is Al Gore--ironically.

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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Cause they can throw me in Gitmo
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 06:56 PM by ibegurpard
with no recourse.
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bossfish Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fuck that...this is MY country
and I'm not gonna let these bastards run me off.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. yes yes yes
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 07:29 PM by charlyvi
America will need us more than ever if * wins RE-SELECTION. This is my country, and when she is in deep trouble I am not going to abandon her. America rocks---even with all the flaws.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Aye!
this country belongs to us not Monkey nuts! Hate the government, not the country. Better days are coming, i know this for sure.
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pss Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think the thing to do...
...rather than renouncing your citizenship, is to just stop spending money. Just don't buy anything. Don't give them any money, and they'll shrivel up and die...
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. How do you eat?
I repeat, how do you eat?
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. check out...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

Ready and waiting for your "vacation".
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why renounce citizenship?
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 07:20 PM by Zorra
It's not the country, it's the fascist government we have a problem with.

Many Germans saw the writing on the wall and left the country where they were born and raised during the 1930's. What would have happened to them if they had stayed in Germany and opposed the nazis after they had full control? They would have been imprisoned and/or executed. Other Germans failed to recognize how dangerous the nazis were until it was too late, and could not leave. Many who stayed were supporters of Hitler.

I've been gone from the US for over three years now because of the Bu$h selection, my belief that his selection meant impending totalitarianism, and a desire to not support a government that did not have a democratically elected leader.

Leaving the country is also a gesture and method of non-support toward a violent, repressive government, and people who leave may provide a network and funding for others to escape after (if he is re-selected) Bu$h begins locking down the country. I don't know if Bu$h and the neocons will get as bad as Hitler and the Nazis, but the similarity at this stage is alarming, and I believe that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it:

During the 1930s and 1940s, many German Jews and intellectuals fled Nazi Germany. At first many of them moved to neighboring European countries seeking a haven for their religious and political views. As the National Socialists expanded their control throughout Europe, the German exiles were again in grave danger. Those who were able to escape across the Atlantic finally found safety in the United States. Some of these writers, artists, and intellectuals gathered in New York; however, Southern California's warm, Mediterranean-like climate attracted many to live on the West Coast.

http://www.usc.edu/isd/archives/arc/libraries/feuchtwanger/exiles/index.html

In reaction to the rapid rise and wide spread of totalitarian systems in the 1930's and 40's, cosmopolitan thinkers in New York founded an organization whose outlook was from the onset liberal and international. The members included well-known intellectuals and political figures from North and South America, as well as from Asia and Europe. The name of the organization was Free World. Its Honorary Board reads like a Who's Who of mid-20th century liberal thinkers and politicians, among them: former President of Argentina Marcello T. de Alvear, General Secretary of the World Alliance for International Friendship through the Churches Henry A. Atkinson, President of the Czechoslovak Republic Eduard Benez, German exile physicist Albert Einstein, New York City Mayor Fiorella H. LaGuardia, Nobel Prize-winning writer Thomas Mann, German exile theologian and Chairman of the Union for Democratic Action Reinhold Niebuhr, and celebrated American columnist Dorothy Thompson. The journal, which the Free World organization - with the exception of one bimonthly issue - published monthly from October 1941 till December 1946, was appropriately titled Free World (hitherto quoted as FW). Its democratic nature, notwithstanding its high-quality contents, becomes immediately apparent when one, looking for its editor, only finds a list of more than a dozen names serving on the journal's editorial board. These names vary slightly over the course of the journal's five year-period, but they consistently include Louis Dolivet, who later is singled out as the "International Editor." Dolivet had the assistance of a managing editor, whose name also changed a few times. There was a group of editorial writers, who varied slightly over the course of the journal's life span, but whose prominence is exemplified by the five names listed in the journal's final issue: William L. Shirer, Orson Welles, Norman Angel, Max Ascoli, and Lin Yutang.

Under these circumstances it can hardly surprise us that a number of German and Austrian exiles, who had left their home countries under political pressure, also found themselves in the circle of Free World and that several left their imprint on the pages of its journal.

http://www.inst.at/trans/15Nr/05_02/pfanner15.htm

In 1939, at the outbreak of World War II, Norway declared neutrality. Public opinion, however, sympathized with the Allies, for the Norwegians were convinced parliamentary democrats, and had strong economic ties with Britain. As late as 1935, the Norwegian Storting had awarded the Nobel Peace Prize to German pacifist CARL VON OSSIETZKY (who died in 1936 from the treatment received in a Nazi concentration camp). Norway also was host to many German exiles, such as future chancellor WILLY BRANDT.
On April 9th 1940, German troops invaded Denmark and Norway, without a previous declaration of war (OPERATION WESERUEBUNG). Vidkun Quisling, head of the fascist NASJONAL SAMLING, called on Norway's troops, over the radio, not to resist. They did not listen; resistance continued into June. However, neither the Norwegians nor British troops who had landed were able to stop the Germans. The royal family, as well as the country's leading democratic politicians, left the country for England, where a GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE was established. Occupied Norway was of importance for Germany's nuclear bomb project, because Norway had a Heavy Water Plant at Ryukan.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/scandinavia/norway193945.html
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Yes, you've got my angle
I don't live in the USA, and i don't pay taxes so the criminal-war-
government that has usurped the constitution. I pay rather to the
criminal war government that has usurped Scotland... under the name
of good transatlantic relations.

All the same, telling the IRS to fuck off is a real joy... expecially
knowing they'd like some coin to pay for some mass murdering and
more criminal wars and repression of natural rights.

It is a hard life emigrating... and i'll ditch citizenship only when
its really a lost cause... which 1 bush has not yet proven... but
another term might bring about. I refuse to pay a dime in tax to
the criminals until they restore electoral democracy per the
constituion.... and until then, fuck em. I'm a new american expat
jew.... a buddhist one. :-)

Get citizenship in a nation closer to human rights best practice,
and carry no baggage of pretend patriotism for fascists. One day
we'll all be equal in death. Its but a short dream this, but we
have no choice but to defeat the evil bush-GOP.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Cheers!
:toast:
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I would never give up my citizenship
that is just what the repigs would like, one less Democratic voter. One day in the not to distant future I will be leaving this country (not for political reasons but family and personal ones) and I will continue voting Democratic no matter where I am. :D
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. There's not a chance that I would forfeit my citizenship.
I don't care what happens in November, I'm still going to be an American. You can have my country when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. A lot of countries allow duel citizenship.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not without getting citizenship somewhere else first
Being a "stateless person" is no fun from a legal standpoint.
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