Ten Commandments on federal property?

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

Just caught a segment about a mayor, or governer that was fighting a federal request to remove a stone with the ten commandments on them from a federal court house. I for one agree with the courts decision to have it removed, and here is why.

For one thing, it is directly adopting a set of beleifs, that are held and created by a religion. That in of itself should be enough to get it removed, but it also sets up moral standards for the state, and in my opinion the state should not have it's own morals, the state has no business giving itself morals, it can cloud it's judgment, and cause more harm than good.

The argument for the 10 commandments, is that these 10 rules, are the scaffold for the English common law, and are laws are derived from the common law, so our laws are derived from the 10 commandments. It could be argued that it is part of our laws history.


What do you think?

[MissouriTeacher]

1. The 10 Commandments

are outside of the state capitol in Missouri as well.

This is one of those issues where it very well may be unconstitutional, but it's not the most politically wise move to become the anti-10 commandments candidate.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

2. Our country is in a poor state,

when upholding the constitution can mean the end of your career.

[MissouriTeacher]

3. Yeah, I know

but we live in a time where most Americans believe the founding fathers were Southern Baptist fundamentalist Christians.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

8. Where do you live in missouri?

I live in Kansas City. The problem with the above thought, is that we're taught that in school.

[pstokely]

23. if you are in Kansas City

tell KKKMBZ and KKKCMO to dump their hate radio programs

[pstokely]

24. when did you go to school?

never heard anything about it

[Warpy]

9. Somebody needs to read those first 3

...commandments to the booboisie, and ask them how they feel about having JESUS dissed as a false god?

Although the lumping of female human beings in with livestock and other property toward the end is offensive to me, I find it's those pesky first 3 commandments by the jealous god who wanted to be superior (while admitting the existence of other REAL gods?) to be the troublesome ones in a pluralistic society.

Moore is dead wrong on this issue. He knows he's wrong, which is why he had that thing carted into the courthouse under cover of darkness. Although this bunch in power has little affection for the body of judicial precedent, cases like this have been decided against governmental religious displays before, and we hope they will again.

[Dob Bole]

4. I don't necessarily disagree

with the 10 commandments being in a public place, or a public official having a picture of Jesus or something on their desk.

In this case, though, the justice paid to have an almost 2-ton monument placed through private funds just to make a right wing fuss about nothing. It doesn't belong there, and he should be fined, not the state of Alabama.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. A picture?

Why can't a public official have a picture of Jesus on his/her desk? THAT is none of your business, it's his/her desk.

[KCDem]

5. the golden rule is far less divisive

and far more important.

Maybe we can try to influence those groups which find it necessary to put up the Big 10 to use the Golden Rule instead? Same general idea... yet... more Democratic!

[MissouriTeacher]

6. Okay, but just don't tell them

that it was actually Confucius who came up with the golden rule before it was accredited to Jesus. :D

[Clete]

7. I prefer separation of church and state but sometimes

can't a monument, just be that? I used to live in Santa Monica. In Palisades Park, on government property, there was a Statue of Saint Monica, a Catholic saint, a sort of patron of the city. Some time around the seventies there was a PC movement to move the statue because it was offensive to anyone who wasn't Catholic. After many debates in the city council, it was decided that the statue would stay. I haven't been there in a decade, but as far as I know the statue is still there.

There was also a brouhaha over Christmas decorations. I don't know, as long as you don't have someone hovering over you with a stick forcing you to pray, I can't see what the problem is with a folk tradition. Am I wrong?

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

10. Well, 10 commandments is a religious tradition,

and is directly connected to a god, and more specifically Christianity. I find it unsavory that a religious artifact can be considered just a monument,when it is a monument with a meaning.

[Clete]

13. So your religious monument is more Christian

than anyone else's Christian religious monument? Now I know where the problem is.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

15. That's not what I said,

any religious monument, I did not discern which one.

[Warpy]

11. Oh, I'd tolerate Santa Monica

After all, she gave the town her name, and unless there's a plaque on her statue saying all other religions should be abandoned because it'll make the Christian god jealous, I see no problem with it.

[Dob Bole]

14. So the Ten Commandments are now from the "Christian God??"

interesting. Especially since the Ten Commandments predate Christianity, Islam, and even Judaism, since Abraham is considered to be the first Jew.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

16. No, but Christianity adopted it,

and Jesus is the son of the ten commandments god.

[Dob Bole]

18. Fundies Adopted it: Christianity Has Two Commandments

and one Commission.

The Commandments are as follows, straight from Jesus' lips"

1) Love your God with all your heart, soul, and mind
2) Love your neighbor as yourself
and
"Go out and tell the world," though you could argue that the Commission was to the Disciples, because today there already are Christians all over the world.

[lazarus]

21. ahem

Jesus did say he had come not to change the law of Moses. He was fairly clear that the OT laws all still stand.

[Dob Bole]

22. You are correct...

The reasoning is, that if you truly love your neighbor as yourself, you will not kill from him, steal from him, sleep with his wife, or covet his belongings.
So the 10 commandments do still stand.

However, not killing your neighbor is not good enough, for even though if you love your neighbor you will not kill him, the act of not killing himdoes not guarantee that you do love him.

The purpose of the two basic commandments is not to destroy Jewish law, but to emphasize the spirit or intent of the laws. Jesus was Jewish.

[AndyTiedye]

20. Three Religions Separated by a Common God

> Christianity, Islam, and even Judaism

[MissouriTeacher]

12. I think it's just the fact that they're

sitting in front of a government building that makes it seems as if the government is promoting a certain religion. Of course, they do this in other ways, like by having prayers before legislative sessions.

I think what you described about the statue is just silly, and is taking it to an extreme.

[goddess40]

25. The test is would you allow a Wiccan monument?

Or a muslim one? I doubt those would be allowed, if he wants a religious monument put it on churh or other private property. To put it on public ground means that the 'public' supports it over other religions and that is wrong.

[Wonk]

17. What a lovely username you've picked this time, HiggsBoson. nt

[fabius]

19. Here's a comment I sent to my Mom...

If we watch the behavior of modern-day "Conservative Leaders" it appears that "thou shalt not commit adultery" is the only one that counts. Or at least "thou shalt not get CAUGHT committing adultery".

They pay scant attention to "thou shalt not kill", "thou shalt not steal", "thou shalt not covet", "thou shalt not bear false witness" and "thou shalt not worship any graven image". Because if we look at the leaders of the modern-day Conservative Movement, we see theft, hypocrisy, war, lies, and worship of money and power, as commonplace.

A sculpture of the Ten Commandments in a courthouse is meaningless, if Ken Lay is going to walk out of said courthouse scot-free with his hundreds of millions in stolen cash.

[Mari333]

26. There are 3 versions of the Ten Commandments, ergo

which one is used? right now, its the Protestant one used, thanks to that stupid movie back in the 50s with Charlton Heston as Moses...the Eagles and Lions Clubs all over the US went whacko during the McCarthy Era and beyond by supplying the (Protestant) Ten C monuments to federal buildings in tons of small towns in honour of that crappy movie, etc
Now we are cleaning up the mess...
In the meantime, the Ten Cs, any version, fly directly in the face, many of the commands, of the Constitution and Bill of Rights...so take your religious symbols to private grounds, and let the GOVT property stay non partisan, and promote NO symbol of any religion..

http://www.uctaa.org/Essays/reflections/commandments/versions.html