Is there a REAL Solution to Terror?

[3 Cents and Change]

I’m freaking lost. I’ve heard ten thousand reasons the current strategy in the war on terror are bunk. I’ve heard it was all staged by * to get to Iraqi oil. However, I have yet to hear a legitimate solution to the REAL threat of terrorism.


No, I do not think that * is behind 9-11. I think AQ is behind it.

No, I do not think these beheadings are staged by * to infuriate people. They are done by some seriously sick fucks.

Putting your head in the sand and claiming there are no bad guys in the world other than * will allow terrorism to thrive until my grandchildren die.

We’re not leaving Iraq. We haven’t left Japan or Germany.



Is there a solution to terrorism other than denial that it exists?

[kiahzero]

1. Yeah

Kill or detain those that will never coexist peacefully in the West. Convince the rest that we aren't the evil that we've been made out to be.

[thebigidea]

2. Question. What does Iraq have to do with Al-Qaeda and the "War on Terror"?

[3 Cents and Change]

5. You got me...

What does Iraq have to do with Al-Qaeda and the "War on Terror"?

Hell if I know. That's not an answer to how to get rid of terror though. In fact, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Whenever anybody wants to talk about REAL solutions to terrorism, people go to the "Iraq is a sham", "Afghanistan was about Oil", and "* was behind 9-11" stuff and ignore the REAL issue.

[thebigidea]

8. So if you don't think they are related, why confuse the issues?

If you want to talk about the "War on Terror," why are you bringing up Iraqi oil and the need to stay in Iraq?

You said yourself that you don't know what they have to do with each other.

Perhaps you're the one ignoring the "real issue," eh?

Its cute the way you simultaneously are "confused" yet dead certain about the very topics you're confused about. Confusing.

[3 Cents and Change]

10. Confused my comment.

Maybe you confused my original post to say that I was trying to defend Iraq, if so, I apologize for not being clear.

I meant we're not leaving Iraq in the context of it's pretty much useless to claim we need to leave Iraq. We're there. It's done. Nothing is going to change that. We've fucked the nation up and leaving like that would be worse than what we did in the actual invasion.

I didn't say it's right and I don't think it's right. However, I'm not so naive to think that will change anything.

We haven't left nations we toppled over half a century ago. If you know the military, you know that the military will be in Iraq just as long as that.

The reason I brought it up was claiming we need to leave Iraq is going to get us nowhere in the WOT because it's a useless argument.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[3 Cents and Change]

15. ???

If you didn't have anything to say, why even reply?

[3 Cents and Change]

14. ...

"Its cute the way you simultaneously are "confused" yet dead certain about the very topics you're confused about. Confusing."

Read my post rather than trying to pigeon hole me. I'm trying to have a real conversation not throw insults back and forth.

Confused is in reference to the solution to terror. I was addressing the "there is no AQ, 9-11 was a government conspiracy" replies from the start. That's what those comments were in reference to.

[thebigidea]

16. Mmm hmm. A real conversation. Mmmm hmmm.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[thebigidea]

23. That's interesting. You're defending Cheney/etc, and I'm the troll.

[3 Cents and Change]

26. THAT is a lie.

"You're defending Cheney/etc, and I'm the troll"

I NEVER defended Cheney.

[thebigidea]

30. you're defending his decisions and saying I shouldn't blame him

[3 Cents and Change]

33. Another Lie

"you're defending his decisions and saying I shouldn't blame him"

I never defended his actions, I said the shit's been done and there's nothing we can do to erase it. Just dropping out of Iraq will be worse than invading it in the first place.

I said blame him all you want but don't ignore real solutions to terror.

Quit putting words in my mouth.

[thebigidea]

36. I don't see how you can argue that Cheney isn't part of the problem

"I said blame him all you want but don't ignore real solutions to terror."

Quit putting words in MY mouth. I think part of the solution to this "terror" problem would be to consign Cheney and all of his ilk to a lovely little undisclosed location complete with bread, water, bars, and occasional visits from his family.

His idiotic schemes have dishonored our country, killed thousands of people, and distracted us from Al-Qaeda.

I simply don't understand how you can possibly think that Cheney isn't part of the problem.

[3 Cents and Change]

37. AND I DIDN'T

"I don't see how you can argue that Cheney isn't part of the problem"

!!!!!AND I DIDN'T ARUGE THAT!!!!!

How many fucking times do I have to say it?

[wurzel]

3. Yes. Leave other people alone.

Stay out of their countries unless they ASK for your help.

[3 Cents and Change]

6. ????

Israel has asked for our help NUMEROUS times. I would dare say that most of the Islamic hate of us prior to 9-11 was due to us answering their requests.

[westsidexview]

4. that is the problem but

BUSH NEEDS TO BE FUCKING HONEST WHEN HE SENDS OUR PEOPLE OUT TO GET THEIR BODIES AND LIVES MUTILATED.

[3 Cents and Change]

7. Agreed.

Agreed.

Now, how do we fight terrorism?

[thebigidea]

9. we can start by not invading countries when we can't find terrorists

that tends to create more terrorists, doesn't it.

[3 Cents and Change]

11. And?

You're right but we're already there. Nothing is going to change that. What's done is done.

Knowing that, what can be done?

[thebigidea]

13. Oh, I dunno - discredit the fools responsible so they never try it again?

That might be a good start, huh? Make the names Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfeld horrible insults.

Make sure these fools never get another chance at "pre-emption" again.

Or are you keen on taking down Syria and Iran as well, only to spout nonsensical "what's done is done" bullshit later?

[3 Cents and Change]

18. Don't bother.

Don't bother. If you are just worried about making sure everything is blamed on repugs rather than actually addressing the real issues, you aren't the kind of person who will have a real response.

[thebigidea]

21. you said yourself that the invasion wasn't right. Thus someone is wrong.

Now, it stands to reason that you'd prefer such wrongs not to happen again, yes?

And how do we do that, then?

Are you saying we reward Cheney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld/etc?

Are you saying we shouldn't blame them for the collllossssal clusterfuck they've dragged us into?

Are you saying they should be beyond reproach?

Are you saying you're still very confused?

[3 Cents and Change]

25. ...

I'm saying have the hearings but don't use it as an excuse to ignore REAL solutions to terrorism why you are on your repug hunt. While you are spending all of your attention blaming Cheney, the world will still be turning and terrorism will still exist.

I NEVER said Cheney shouldn't be punished. You decided I did because for some reason you are more concerned with making sure he gets blamed than you are with finding a real solution to terrorism.

[thebigidea]

29. What a strange argument you're making.

Then again, you did say you were confused. I suppose I should've expected it.

"You decided I did because for some reason you are more concerned with making sure he gets blamed than you are with finding a real solution to terrorism. "

And part of that solution involves assholes like Dick Cheney removed from the premises.

You sound like you are more concerned with making sure Dick Cheney doesn't get blamed than you are with finding a real solution to terrorism.

[3 Cents and Change]

35. My lord.

I try to have a thread about doing something real about terror other hand having hearings and you constantly claim I'm defending Cheney.

Have you not read my replies to your constant copy and paste of the same shit? We should go after Cheney. Happy? I don't know why you would be, I never said anything else.

I'm saying that the idea that getting rid of Cheney will stop all terrorism is pure ignorance. Is it a good step? Yes. Is it the end? No.

[thebigidea]

39. and where did I say that getting rid of Cheney will stop all terrorism?

"Have you not read my replies to your constant copy and paste of the same shit?"

Oh, you mean the replies that were constant cut and paste-jobs of the same shit? Those replies?

"Is it a good step? Yes."

Now, why couldn't you have said that from the start?

You said you wanted to have a thread about "doing something real" about terror. I said shitcanning Cheney was crucial to this.

You finally agree that it is a "good step."

So why all this yelling? I offered a suggestion that is a "good step."

[3 Cents and Change]

41. Tell the truth...

You love picking these fights.

Have a nice day.

[thebigidea]

42. And apparently, you love starting them.

I'm sure we can look forward to more of them in the future.

[randome]

17. Find out what they want, for starters.

If we can't give it to them, take the sensible approach, which is help their countries and people become more prosperous and contented.

Contented people don't customarily go around looking for large groups of other people to kill.

On edit...

Wait a minute, what did I just say?

YOU tell US how to stop Bush & Cheney and PNAC from terrorizing other countries. YOU offer a solution instead of a lame open-ended question.

[3 Cents and Change]

22. I tend to agree.

I don't think terrorism will ever stop as long as we are in Israel but I don't think Israel will exist if we don't support them. If we leave them high and dry it's pretty obvious what would happen.

[GumboYaYa]

20. Yes, stop being terrorists ourselves and stop exploiting the

resources of other countries for our advantage. Work for social justice for others and we will find it for ourselves. The solution is simple but painful.

[matcom]

24. your grandchildren will have to live with it

and their grandchildren and their grandchildren's grandchildren

terrorism ain't nothing new. look at the rest of the world. somehow when it finally hit us, we got all moral and uppity and shit

[FlemingsGhost]

27. No. That's what makes it such an effective tool.

Covert guerilla actions have always been the way an oppressed people strikes out at their "master." The nation you and your grandchildren enjoy owes its very existence to this methodology.

I suppose all we can hope for, is for evolution to eliminate the desire to control and oppress our fellow man.

(edited for clarity)

[3 Cents and Change]

34. :(

You're probably right. Like the other guy who posted something about the war on drugs.

[porphyrian]

28. Terror is a Tactic

It is as ridiculous to declare war on terror as it is to declare war on frontal assault. Most people never make that connection, because this fucking administration and its puppet media insist on blurring all distinction. There is no solution because, as it is posed, there is no problem. The real war is with terrorists, or those who employ the tactic of terror. However, as that applies to our own government, and as a number of us insist on thinking independently rather than swallowing whole the lying bullshit we are fed, it was necessary for them to make the war against the tool rather than those who wield it, except where otherwise instructed, at their convenience. The other benefit, as with the "war on drugs," is that, as a war against a tool, there is no definable end to it.

[TrogL]

31. Stop pissing people off

Learn how to behave yourself as a country.

[treepig]

32. more education?

[wuushew]

38. Remove all military bases from Islamic lands...

use an "even handed" approach to the Israeli/Palenstian conflict and stop the CIA and other agencies interfering in the internal politics of other countries.


Preheat oven and bake at 350 degrees for 20-30 years.

[FlemingsGhost]

43. Ummm ... no offense, but what about the non-Islamic groups?

How about domestic terrorists?

Japan has had terror incidents, and they are mostly Buddists.

[mopinko]

40. the peace corp

gets chump change, and the pentagon gets trillions.
it will take a generation at least. but i think you start by making sure that children do not starve, and die left and right from preventable diseases. can you imagine what kind of pain results from watching 5 of your 7 children starve? i know that many of the 9/11 plotters were middle class. but there would be no movement, no support, without this kind of want.
then the u.s. lives up to it's constitution and ideals, and shows the world the rewards of right living.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Sure. Dismantle the corporate state that America has become.

The phoney "war on terrorism" is being waged to protect America's "vital interests". Halliburton, Exxon, Nike, and countless others that are perfectly willing to send the American military and/or it's surrogates to protect the cash flow so we can have SUV's, big screen TV, cheap clothes, and all the other stuff we just can't live without.

The "Real" war on terror isn't about a bunch of religious fanatics, it's about oppression and hopelessness.

Speaking of "denial". The "denial" is that we don't want to take responsibility for being the major cause of "terrorism" in the world.

No, we're not "leaving" Iraq, we're getting thrown out.

[welshTerrier2]

49. i hadn't read your post ...

when i wrote mine (See below) ...

nice to be on the same page ... a government of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations ...

[Caution]

45. 650 people died from terrorism last year

9/11 was an aberration. The people behind it should be brought to justice, the 135,000 troops in Iraq woudl have caught Bin Laden by now if they had been sent to Afghanistan with one goal in mind.

Terrorism sucks but it is nowhere near the problem Bush and the media make it out to be. 650 died of terrorism, 3 million dies of AIDS.

money spent by Bush on AIDS in africa? $10 billion over ten years

money spent by Bush on the "War on Terror" ? $200+ billion in 3 years.

$200 billion spent on AIDS research would pretty much guarantee a cure.

Where should our resources go?

(And I'm not even mentioning heart disease, cancer, or hunger)

[MadHound]

46. Yes there is

1. The US need to start by being an honest broker in the ME peace process. Be open and out front about our dealings instead of double dealing and going behind the back.

2. Call Israel out when it committs atrocities. Israel has been condemned numersous times by the UN and other agencies. We need to start holding Israel accountable for it's actions rather than blindly supporting them right or wrong.

3. Stop dealing arms to all takers in the ME. The merchants of death in our country have made untold billions selling arms and WMD to any and all takers in the ME, and now this is coming back to bite us in the ass

4. By now it is to late to undo the Israeli state, and the Palestinians need to recognize this reality. However, Israel needs to withdraw it's borders to pre 1967 boundaries, and give up Gaza and the West Bank to be part of an independent Palestinian state. Jerusalem needs to be declared an international city, open to all.

5. The US needs to stop trying to establish a Pax Americana in the ME. All we are doing is pissing everyone off, and we WILL suffer the consequences if we continue.

6. Work with the moderate Arab leaders to bring the radical Muslims under control. These moderate leaders dislike what the ME is becoming just as much as we do. They will work with us if we let them.

7. Stop the CIA and other governmental organization use of radical Muslims to fight proxy wars for the US. We did this with the mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and looked what happened with that mess.

8. If we make a promise to a ME country or leader, keep it.

9. Develop our renewable energy resources, wind, solar, and biodiesel among others. Rid ourselves of our current oil addiction and the world will be a better place.

If we would implement these points, the US would be well on the way towards ridding the US and the world of terrorism. If we don't, well we will be fighting a never ending war. Of course it seems like this is exactly what Bushco wants.

[welshTerrier2]

47. there's an old saying ...

if you want peace, work for justice ...

first of all, let's define what we mean by terrorism ... the context i suspect you mean is that unofficial forces, not sanctioned by a sovereign nation as their primary military, violently attack innocent civilians ... let's use that as our working definition with the understanding that some might define terrorism very differently ...

for example, is it terrorism to drop thousands of bombs on Iraq when they don't have an Air Force to defend themselves? is it terrorism to poison Iraq with depleted uranium that will lead to tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of cases of cancer? is it terrorism to invade a sovereign nation that has not attacked us? well, i think you get the point ...

so let's stick to the narrower definition from above ...

i will not defend terrorists or terrorism here but i will challenge you to suggest a course of action available to oppressed peoples who are invaded by the world's most powerful superpower ... do you expect them to put on Iraqi uniforms and fight head to head with the American military? i don't justify the killing of innocent civilians but i'm not clear American violence and tyranny leave many alternatives open ...

so, now to your question ... terrorists do what they do as a means to an end ... as do we all ... U.S. "free market capitalism" has exploited the resources of the Middle East ... we sold horrible weapons to Saddam (well, we didn't but Reagan did) that he used not just on his own citizens but on the Iranians as well ... I make no defense of Saddam ... where do you think he obtained the power and the weapons to do the evil he did in Iraq? what is the U.S. history with the Shah of Iran? how much "dealing" has gone on behind the scenes between bush I (via the Carlyle Group) and the Saudi government?

it's important to understand that, whether you see the AQ crowd as "some seriously sick fucks" or not, they act for their own reasons ... their strategy is very calculated ... it is certainly not irrational ... so we must ask ourselves, is our conduct in the world, especially in the Middle East, morally justifiable?

we can never win peace over those who see us as perpetrators of injustice ... we are seen as poisoning their lands with our satanic culture ... their religion and way of life are very different than our own ... our government, for far too long now, has acted in the commercial interests of large multi-national corporations rather than in the interest of promoting a better planet ... our foreign policy has become one of rewarding greed rather than helping those in need ...

so, the road to peace must be paved with justice .. not with tanks and bombers and heavily armed troops ... we have far too often failed to understand that most people will not attack you when you are acting in their best interests ...

i'm afraid that our addiction to fossil fuels, especially imported oil, will not allow us a solution to the mess we're in anytime soon ... we are like drug addicts who must rob and kill to sustain our habits ... what folly to shout out the window of your 10 MPG SUV that you don't understand why we are hated in the Middle East ... it's because we prop up oppressive regimes there who guarantee a continuing supply of oil ... and those who are oppressed by these regimes are enlisted into the ranks of terrorism ...

[Speck Tater]

48. For every single person that dies as the result of terrorism...

23 times as many people die due to drunk driving.
Several hundred times as many die due to smoking related illness.

If you add up all the various dangers in the modern world terrorism is one of the very lowest sources of real danger to the average citizen. The FEAR is real, but the danger is minimal.

[gottaB]

50. an analogy of sorts, The National Church Arson Task Force

an old blog post of mine

http://www.blogforcarol.us/achievements/gottaB.softpower.html?seemore=y

or just research the National Church Arson Task Force. That program didn't of course put an end to domestic terrorism, but it was very effective at cracking down on church arsonists. We should use that as a model for combatting international terrorism.