Just a reminder - the "Arab hijacker" myth is just that - a myth.

[RBHam]

The possibility that 19 Muslim men accused of being the Sept. 11 hijackers were not, in fact, the hijackers, is not so extraordinary an idea as it might seem.

Exclusive To American Free Press

By Michael Collins Piper

After seven months of non-stop declarations by U.S. government spokesmen that there exists solid proof tying 19 Muslim men to plotting the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller has now admitted quite the opposite.

That 19 Muslim men who have apparently disappeared have been named as the hijackers is not in doubt.

What is in doubt is whether those 19 men were actually plotting anything, either individually or together.

The amazing possibility remains that others carried out the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, using the identities of the 19 Muslims who have been assigned guilt in the tragedy.

In an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco, Mueller said that the purported hijackers, in his words, “left no paper trial.” The FBI director stated flatly:

"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper—either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere—that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

more...

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Conspiracy/20_FBI_ADMITS-NO_EVIDENCE-...

Expert: Hijackers likely skilled with fake IDs
By Daniel Sieberg
CNN

(CNN) -- FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.

more...

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/inv.id.theft /

MANY OF THE 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE



http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/2373.php

[still_one]

1. BULL SHIT!

osama bin laden, al queada admitted it!

Saudi Arabia also has admitted it...


Pure double speak, mis-information

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that in the radical fundamentalist Islamic mind, the west needs to be destroyed!

[havocmom]

3. Don't know how the passports of the alleged hijackers managed to

be found in the wreckage of the WTC when so much other material was vaporized by the extreme heat of the impact fires. Mighty amazing that incriminating passports were found so quickly and so much other evidence was vaporized. Mighty amazing.

[arcane1]

15. passports are 10 times tougher than 'black boxes', apparently

I always thought that was a smelly convenience, finding the passport so quickly and easily...

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. Yep. We're expected to believe this fire was so hot that it melted steel..

...80 stories below the point of impact, and completely incinerated hundreds of bodies in the building. Yet a paper passport survived intact.

Not even Bush is dumb enough to believe that.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Huh?

Where did you ever read that steel melted 80 stories below impact?

I've never seen that. The reports i've read (including the official investigation) are that the building design involved each floor being capable of supporting the weight of itself and 3 stories above it.

When the building began to pancake, the lower floors were taking on loads greater and greater, far beyond their design.

It didn't require steel softening (not melting, by the way), down to ground floor. If you actually saw someone suggest that, trust me, they did not know what they were talking about.

I know the whole passport thing smells awfully fishy. But, i have a hard time believing that al Qaeda would take credit for something they didn't do. And, i do believe that there are Islamists who want to harm Americans.

The Professor

[RBHam]

27. I saw a controlled demolition...

That's what I saw.

But, remember, it's just my opinion.

Speaking of fishy - how about Giuliani selling off all the rubble to China before forensics could be conducted? Or the fact that they've admitted to "pulling" WTC 7 - or that Marvin Bush was just recently installed as WTC Security Chief, or that John o'Neil was killed, or that the same demo company that got the contract for the Murrah Building did the WTC clean up...

I could go on.

Eventually, the coincidences just become too much to swallow.

[frankly_fedup2]

40. I'm with you but cannot prove it except with my

lying eyes. Those two buildings falling in such perfection . . . someone made it too perfect. Plus, You have actually heard of Marvin Bush. Does anyone have a picture of this man? I have never seen nor heard anything about Marvin. Of course, Jeb and Neil, of course Dubya, but nothing on Marvin. Anyone have a picture???

[HFishbine]

31. And

Where has anybody read that a hijacker's passport was found in wreckage? Maybe I missed it, but I'd like to see a source.

[amish_enforcer]

34. Here's a few.....finding passport

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN010912.html

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.america.under.attack/

Also, if you look into Flight 93 there was supposed fragments of passport found there as well (luckily with most of his face showing)

[King_Crimson]

42. I've posted this often...and here it is again

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm It's very long...very detailed...very reference and link oriented...and so happens to be the way I believe it happened! :headbang:

[geek tragedy]

43. It's also written by an anti-semitic nutcase

Anyone who believes that MISSILES were launched at the WTC by the planes is S-T-U-P-I-D.

My fiancee saw the second plane hit. There is footage showing the planes hitting, with no missiles in sight.

There was no demolition.

The proprietor of that website openly fantasizes about the massacre of every living human being inside Israel.

Nice.

[RBHam]

45. You seem to like to smear people.

Why?

[geek tragedy]

47. Because people cite bigots and loonies as credible sources here

and some people are too innocent to know better.

And there is a conspiracy.

The conspiracy is that of right-wing fascists and Neo-Nazis to trick unwitting progressives into serving their evil schemes.

You yourself cited the American Free Press as an ally of truth-seekers. You have been deceived. The American Free Press is run by an admirer of Adolf Hitler. It is an organ of evil. Anyone working for the American Free Press might as well have a swastika on their shoulder.

The proprietor of that serendipity site is a nasty bigot who daydreams about millions of people dying.

These people are the enemies of what is good about America and humanity.

[RBHam]

49. The American Free Press article cited Mueller

I used a google to get the Mueller quote. The article references it.
It came up as an archived item. Didn't know much about the guy who founded it. Sorry about the source, this Carto guy sounds like a real piece of work.
http://www.adl.org/holocaust/carto.asp

It kind of illustrates my point, though, that these reports are so hidden away from us by the mainstream press that we have to go searching down the memory hole for them.

By the way, Serendipity's author "daydreaming of millions of people dying?" Sounds like the PNAC and the Bible does that too. Nowhere does he indicate an irrational hatred of the Jewish race. Maybe an irrational hatred of the New World Order, however.

You should check out http://dieoff.com/, for an intense walk down the path of considering human annihilation.

Later.

Here's the web site that has film footage of the fired missile preceding the plane you referenced. Seems like a good site to peruse...
http://www.letsroll911.org/

[geek tragedy]

50. Serendipity's author is a Jew-hater

Let's see:

Supporter of Ernst Zundel: Check
Approvingly links to bigot Edgar J. Steele: Check
Says "All hope is not lost" and then links to article discussing Russian plans to nuke every living human being in Israel: Check
Approvingly links to white supremacist Occidental Quarterly: Check
Several links to Jew-hater Israel Shamir: Check
Plenty of links to the loathsomely bigoted rense.com: Check
Approvingly Links to Jew-hating/holocaust-denying site sweetliberty.org: Check

Approvingly links to Jew-hating bigot Carole Valentin: Check


Case closed.

[lightbulb]

51. while I agree that the missile theory is

pretty outlandish, the collapse of the rarely mentioned WTC 7 is definately a mystery worth contemplating. First OSHA says the structure collapsed due to fire alone (the first and only steel-framed building to ever have done so), then Larry Silverstein, controller of the WTC, states plainly that the building was intentionally demolished by his command...

google: wtc 7 & larry silverstein

[King_Crimson]

54. As a know-it-all genius that you appear to be...

I'm sure you are familiar with what our "Semite" friends did to the USS Liberty in 1967. http://www.ussliberty.org While I'm not an anti-semite, I despise their government.
You know my friend, sometimes there are legitimate reasons to not trust these people.

[yella_dawg]

5. Mike! Mike!

Relax man. It's cool. Just take a deep breath...

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Fat Osama admitted it. Remember him?

It was the only time we saw him, on that providential tape found by US forces in Afghanistan, and released by the State Department.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Osama never admitted it.

There was a video tape floated with a short fat dude who bore no resemblance at all to the 6'5" garbanzo beanpole Bin Laden "confessing", but if you believe that one, then you believe Kate Harris certified the correct election results in Florida.

[leesa]

25. No admission ever occurred. You were told by a neocon controlled

media that it occurred. It has been known since shortly after 9-11 that quite a few of the alleged highjackers turned up alive. It was in the mainstream news.

You have been conned by your government.

[realisticphish]

2. whoa n/t

[RBHam]

4. EIGHT of the alleged September 11th Hijackers are Alive

The truth about the alleged 9/11 hijackers - What Bush will never reveal and needs you to forget...

This is a very well done, comprehensive article...

http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/alive.html

[TNOE]

6. Remember Doctors Found NO Arab Remains

on the flights.... 3 of the 6 pictures there look like little kids. Give me a break.

[AP]

8. A stewardess on the first flight hijacked called AA and described

the hijackers as being Arab.

That was at about 8:30. AA sat on the information.

[RBHam]

9. She was most likely reading from a script placed before her...

With a gun in her ear. She sounds flat, emotionless, them she exclaims, "I don't know where we are! I see water! I see buildings!' Any flight attendant would know exactly where the plane was and be able to identify landmarks, "I see water! I see buildings!" Give me a break. All part of the propaganda.

[AP]

10. I haven't heard the tape.

But, if you're right, it sort of fits in: she called AA and not 911 and AA sat on the information.

Had she called 911, AA wouldn't have been able to sit on the information.

Actually, if they have people on the inside at AA, they could have people inside in the gov't.

It doesn't matter who she called if you believe it was a big conspiracy.

But if you don't believe it's a big conspiracy, it doesn't make sense that they'd make her call anyone.

[RBHam]

11. It's a little fishy...

More fishy is that NONE of the black boxes in any of the planes survived, though a passport of one of the alleged hijackers magically survived the WTC collision.

Fishier still is the Florida flight school link which the mainstream media avoids with a fury:

Guerrilla of the Week
Editor's Pick, June 17, 2004
http://www.guerrillanews.com/intelligence/doc4660.html
Daniel Hopsicker's new book Welcome to Terrorland: Mohamed Atta and the 9-11 Cover-Up in Florida goes where the 9/11 Commission dares not look.

Hopsicker is a former NBC News producer who spent two years in Venice, Florida researching Huffman Aviation, the school that trained 9/11 pilots Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi. Hopsicker's investigation connects this Florida flight school to a series of shadowy international figures. In Welcome to Terrorland, not only does Hopsicker exclusively interview Atta's American girlfriend, he finds reason to believe that the FBI is covering up key aspects to the 9/11 story.

Hopsicker reports that flight school owner Wally Hilliard has a series of strange connections to rich and powerful players. Hilliard's history as a businessman links him to Silverado Resorts' Myron DuBain (who hosted the Bushes, Rumsfeld and Ollie North) and John McCone, director of the CIA under JFK and Johnson. Hilliard bought a plane from Truman Arnold (the Clinton fund-raiser who sold visits to the Lincoln bedroom) for only one dollar. Hilliard also got stiffed on a major loan to Jerry Falwell. Hopsicker points out: Hilliard's plane was busted with 43 pounds of heroin in Orlando the same month Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi arrived at his school in Venice, Florida. According to Hopsicker's sources in Virginia and Florida, Hilliard had a "green light" from the DEA.

GNN contributor Sander Hicks recently talked with Hopsicker for the INN World Report (seen on Free Speech TV, Channel 9415, DiSHNetwork) about the flight school mysteries, Atta's very un-suicide-bomber-like behavior, and the allegations that the FBI was engaged in a cover-up:

more...

[merh]

17. I have never been able to understand that the black boxes

were not found, were destroyed in the fire and collapse of the WTC, desks, monitors, and other objects in the towers were rendered to dust, yet we have proof positive that 19 middle eastern men were responsible and we know their names, their voices, have their pictures, and know where they were in each of the planes and who was flying the planes. I find it hard to understand the certainty.

I guess I am just dense, but that makes no sense to me at all.

[HFishbine]

33. RB

Have a source for one of the passports being found?

[RBHam]

36. ok

"ABCNEWS sources identify another hijacker as Satan Suqami, a Saudi national on American Airlines Flight 11, whose passport was recovered in the rubble."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN010912.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. Especially coming into NYC

That is a very, very distinctive skyline, with lot's of recognizable landmarks like the WTC, which in the air, on a very clear day, could be seen from many miles away.

[HFishbine]

32. Um

How exactly would remains be identified as Arabs?

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. DNA

They DNA tested everything that looked human.

Eventually you end up with a pile of stuff that you can't ID. So you probably start to look at more general features to try to make a good guess.

To date, the government has never acknowledged finding any hijacker remains or if they did, how they disposed of them.

[BeFree]

7. The truth leaks out, ever so slowly

If there be anyone who does not question the 'Official Theory of 19 Cavemen', then they shall be known as Sheeple.

Everything about 9/11 must be questioned. What you saw, and what you've since heard, must be examined in every possible light before one can be sure of it's veracity. To do anything less than that constitutes pure idiocy, imo.

[RBHam]

12. Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11

Sunder Katwala
Sunday October 27, 2002
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,819941,00.html
America's most controversial writer Gore Vidal has launched the most scathing attack to date on George W Bush's Presidency, calling for an investigation into the events of 9/11 to discover whether the Bush administration deliberately chose not to act on warnings of Al-Qaeda's plans.
Vidal's highly controversial 7000 word polemic titled 'The Enemy Within' - published in the print edition of The Observer today - argues that what he calls a 'Bush junta' used the terrorist attacks as a pretext to enact a pre-existing agenda to invade Afghanistan and crack down on civil liberties at home.

Vidal writes: 'We still don't know by whom we were struck that infamous Tuesday, or for what true purpose. But it is fairly plain to many civil libertarians that 9/11 put paid not only to much of our fragile Bill of Rights but also to our once-envied system of government which had taken a mortal blow the previous year when the Supreme Court did a little dance in 5/4 time and replaced a popularly elected President with the oil and gas Bush-Cheney junta.'

Vidal argues that the real motive for the Afghanistan war was to control the gateway to Eurasia and Central Asia's energy riches. He quotes extensively from a 1997 analysis of the region by Zgibniew Brzezinski, formerly national security adviser to President Carter, in support of this theory. But, Vidal argues, US administrations, both Democrat and Republican, were aware that the American public would resist any war in Afghanistan without a truly massive and widely perceived external threat.

'Osama was chosen on aesthetic grounds to be the frightening logo for our long-contemplated invasion and conquest of Afghanistan ... the administration is convinced that Americans are so simple-minded that they can deal with no scenario more complex than the venerable, lone, crazed killer (this time with zombie helpers) who does evil just for the fun of it 'cause he hates us because we're rich 'n free 'n he's not.' Vidal also attacks the American media's failure to discuss 11 September and its consequences: 'Apparently, "conspiracy stuff" is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.'

more...

[geek tragedy]

13. Gore Vidal is a Timothy McVeigh fanboy

so I tend to disregard anything the old bastard has to say.

Your first post links to a publication run by Willis Carto. It is a Holocaust denying Nazi/Fascist hate rag.

[RBHam]

14. No, Gore is no fan of McVeigh...

Gore Vidal exposed McVeigh as a member of a group with a well defined plan - terrorizing the US into accepting Theocracy.

The American Free Press has been on the side of the truth seekers regarding 9-11. I'm aware of their BIAS against Israel the state, but never heard that they are a bunch of Holocaust deniers or Jew haters. After all, the Holocaust was a conspiracy exposed by the Nuremberg Trials. (Read my Sig Line)

And if they are a bunch of Nazis - why are they so adamant AGAINST the police state?

on edit - that first post I linked to simply has info on Mueller's quotes about fake and stolen passports. The web site's personal views don't figure there.

[RBHam]

22. I'm pretty sure that Ashcroft was a fan of Mcveigh's though...

If not his superior in the chain of command of this "Army Of God."

After all, Eric Rudolph turned himself in because he thinks Ashcroft is a "good man" and he knows he'll have a chance to inflame America with his rhetoric at a well-orchestrated media trial.

By the way, why was McVeigh allowed to have his last words and a poem read in his honour proclaimed live on the media, coast to coast?

And why did Ashcroft have a private meeting with McVeigh before Timmy took the needle for the team?

Do you ever wonder?

How 'bout the well co-ordinated Anthrax attacks targetting the media and Dem politicians right after 9-11?

What's Ashcroft doing about that?

[geek tragedy]

23. Try googling "willis carto"

Nazis are not on the side of truth-seekers. Argument over.

As far as Vidal and McVeigh are concerned:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0817-04.htm

<snip>
The writer Gore Vidal yesterday compared the executed Oklahoma bomber Timothy McVeigh to Paul Revere, the hero of American independence.
In a withering address at the Edinburgh book festival, the liberal novelist and elder statesman of the Gore political dynasty said the former soldier decorated for bravery in the Gulf war wanted to send out a warning that the government had been bought by corporate America and "its secret police, the FBI, were out of control. What McVeigh was saying was, 'The Feds are coming, the Feds are coming'. "

In his strongest identification yet with the man who confessed to blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people in retaliation for the FBI's "slaughter at Waco", Vidal described him as a "Kipling hero" with an "overdeveloped sense of justice" who did what he did because he was inflamed by the massacre, the FBI's subsequent cover-up, and the way it "had shredded the bill of rights and the constitution. He was the man who would be king."
<snip>

I piss on anyone who sympathizes with Timothy McVeigh and his white supremacist friends.

[RBHam]

35. That's exactly it...

Vidal is explaining what motivates the McVeighs of the world, how they are easily used by the Reich Wing for their own purposes. How their actions are then used as justifucation for imposing further police state controls on the people.

Hand in glove...

Remember, Ronald Reagan was Mcveigh's hero : "Governmnet isn't the solution, it's the problem."

And get off the Cato thing, alright. The story about Mueller admitting no evidence was linked many places. Holy shit.

[aquart]

16. Disinformation.

Specifically designed to confuse, delay, and obstruct.

Not to mention the racist undertones of a theory that assumes brown-skinned people incapable of high level plotting or of accomplishing such destruction with low tech accessories (plus all that jet fuel).

I'm always sad and disappointed when someone at DU falls for it.

[RBHam]

18. oh that's good

BBc News is spreading disinformation, ok...

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

keep reaching.

[RBHam]

24. DISCLAIMER.

Remember, I'm just a wild eyed conspiracy theorist with no grasp on reality. I don't know how I manage to work a full time job, provide for my family and stay active in my community. Why haven't I been thrown in the loony bin?

What a society, allowing people like myself to form opinions not in support of the official propaganda...err....conventional wisdom.

Stop me, before I think independently again!

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

28. Not loony, just naive

If you 9-11 conspiracy theorists could actually prove anything, the story would explode in the media. Until then, the simplest, most obvious explanation holds firm.

[RBHam]

29. well, the fact is that there is no "proof" of the official story...

Did the 9-11 commission look into anything that might not jibe with the official story? no.

By the way, when will the "Mohammed Atta's Girlfriend Speaks!" story hit CNN? It's a true story, full documented...

http://www.guerrillanews.com/intelligence/doc4660.html

Wow! Can you imagine the RATINGS Larry King could rake in!!!

And I'm naive?

edit, sp.

[shadu]

30. you don't seem the least bit naive

I worry about those who would so easily dismiss you:
are they naive or are they serving some personal motive?

[Karenina]

37. Think about a river

in Egypt. ;-)

[Bridget Burke]

38. The "Arab hijackers" story is a Conspiracy Theory, too.

I'd like to see some real evidence.

Why is it the simplest, most obvious explanation?

[ContinentalOp]

44. It's the simplest explanation,

because it doesn't require us to think or ask any questions. It's the most obvious explanation because it's the handy version that was offered up to us quickly and repeatedly. So it's "simple and obvious" for people who can't handle thinking about more complex ideas.

[kiahzero]

46. That's right

Anyone that disagrees with you is either a rube or in on the conspiracy.

:eyes:

[ContinentalOp]

48. Yeah

:) That's what I really meant. Thanks for clarifying. A conspiracy of rubes! I'm glad someone gets it.

[thebigidea]

52. I've never seen ANY proof that those hijackers are still alive

People with similar names, sure.

But if they really ARE alive, then wouldn't some enterprising journalist maybe, uh - interview them?

That's not to say that the whole 9/11 thing STINKS on ice, but on this point... I've never seen anything solid.

[Insider]

53. QUOTE FROM FBI DIRECTOR

"In an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco, Mueller said that the purported hijackers, in his words, “left no paper trial.” The FBI director stated flatly:

"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper—either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere—that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

:wtf:

RBHam, people are questioning you? doubting you? it is a quote from the FBI Director. THEY HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROOF OF ANYTHING.

that's the way they have pushed this al-qaeda. no trail, no evidence, but they are around every corner waiting to pounce, invisible as ever.

pssssht.

[Catholic Sensation]

55. Yes, and al Qaeda is in reality, an Arab charity building schools

and orphanages for the disadvantaged in Riyadh and Jeddah.

And Indymedia is a reliable source for news, because as I recall, anyone can post anything there. The rules on Late Breaking News are more strict than Indymedia's.