My source says Bush is in trouble in Plamegate

[lancdem]

I've been emailing investigative reporter Wayne Madsen about the Plame investigation for the past week or so; yesterday I asked him if there was significance to Bush being interviewed for 70 minutes. First he said no.

But this morning, I received this email from him:

"I spoke to a DOJ insider last night -- contrary to what I thought, he said the 70 min interview was very significant. Only one other lasted that long, Judge Walsh's interview of Reagan in Iran-contra -- going in Walsh thought Reagan was indictable but afterwards he realized he really didn't know what was going on. Bush, however, does know what's going on."

I replied by asking what culpability Bush has and whether indictments will be delayed until he gets back from Europe. Here's what he said:

"I think there will be 2 sets of indictments -- some for releasing the name of Plame and others for lying to investigators. Bush is a problem, that is usually handled by impeachment. I think we''ll see indictments before the end of this month."

[jackstraw45]

1. Another reason to regret the poor dem performance in the 2002 election....

This Republican Congress will NEVER vote to impeach this president before November.

Censure? Yes. But impeach?

NEVER.

[porphyrian]

10. Not Even To Cover Their Own Asses...? - n/t

[TNOE]

12. Poor performance??

Jack, jack, jack - the Democrats actually won, it was the great performance of the voting machines that made the difference, and of course the coincidental timing of Paul Wellstone's death.

[senseandsensibility]

26. I agree with the points

you made, but you have to admit that the Democratic leadership rolled over and played dead during the 2002 elections. They were still in their "Dubya is my President too" mode. Unbelievably, some of them still are.}(

[leesa]

34. True. It's not Dem vs. Repub in our government. It is the rich vs us.

Dems in Congress are millionaires too and they aren't going to give up their cash cow. They have more in common with the Bush thugs than with us.

[Virginian]

43. Many Republicans ran unopposed in VA including Sen John Warner

and several incumbant Republican congressmen are running unopposed again in this election. Is the redistricting such that the dems think it is impossible to win?

[BurtWorm]

15. I doubt they would even censure.

Unless the outcry was too overwhelming, which is far from certain to be the case.

[jackstraw45]

21. Well, if the President is charged with KNOWINGLY approving of a felony

I'd be surprised if the GOP isn't forced to do SOMETHING (censure) to cover their asses.

Congress will do what is best for themselves. Dems would scream impeachment, GOP would decide on Censure.

We'll see...I'm pretty confident Ashcroft will kill the investigation somehow or keep it from Bush.

[swag]

38. GOP will call treason a "frat prank" n/t

[meow2u3]

97. Knowingly approving of a felony is a felony in itself

It's known as misprision of a felony

Section 4. Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony
cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not
as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other
person in civil or military authority under the United States,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three
years, or both.




http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/1/sections/section_4.html

[11 Bravo]

22. The only way this congress would impeach * would be ...

if he were caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl (or maybe a goat).

[aquart]

31. The goat is a household pet. Everyone cuddles pets.

People sleep with dogs and cats. This is an affectionate goat. Now you know why Bush is so attached to the goat story in the children's book.

Really, this is nothing but scandal mongering when you should be concentrating on poor Barney. He's showing signs of being jealous of the goat.

[chookie]

91. You underestimate their hypocrisy

His Chimperial Highness could strangle Pickles on national television, and the flying monkeys would find a way to defend it.

The moral and legal disconnect in this nation makes the mind reel.

But I think that things which are so incredibly revolting are eventually going to come out, and irrefutably so -- and that Sane Republicans will be faced with a choice between ousting George W or the total destruction of their Party in infamy forever -- and that they will turn against George W (his support is not as broad-based in the traditional GOP as Mr Rove would have you believe....)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. We don't need to impeach

we just need his sorry lying ass back in Texas.

[Salviati]

77. You've got to play the hand you're dealt...

So the house won't pass articles of impeachment, fine... Someone should put them out there anyway and make the bastards vote no on it. Then this becomes the issue, and we can tar many more people with it...

[roper]

2. " before the end of this month."

Now that's a clear statement. I am very curious. Contrary to Michael Ruppert, the "mainstream media" has not made very much of this investigation.

[meisje]

3. he's not going to get impeached

no matter what happens!

[nycmjkfan]

4. Gosh I want to believe this....

However, things this good only happen on Christmas mornings!

[Vickers]

5. Wow

:wow:

I hope that true justice is meted out for the scumbags who did this.

They are traitors.

They committed treason.

[LynneSin]

6. You know, I'd get my hopes up on this one but...

...how many times did we 'think' Bush was going to get in trouble? It's almost depressing anymore when you hear stuff like this because you know it will end up going nowhere.

But I hope & pray that it's real this time!!

[Octafish]

7. Thanks! Made my day.

"There are two kinds of people in the world, my DU Friend:
Those with a rope around their neck
and those whose job it is to do the cutting."

[seemslikeadream]

30. It will be a good day to die

It Is a Good Day to Die
The general rode for sixteen days
The horses were thirsty and tired
On the trail of a renegade chief
One he'd come to admire
The soldiers hid behind the hills
That surrounded the village
And he rode down to warn the chief
They'd come to conquer and pillage

Lay down your arms
Lay down your spear
The chief's eyes were sad
But showed no sign of fear

(chorus)
It is a good day to die
Oh my children dry your eyes
It is a good day to die

He spoke of the days before the white man came
With his guns and whisky
He told of a time a long time ago
Before what you call history
The general couldn't believe his words
Nor the look on his face
But he knew these people would rather die
Then have to live in this disgrace

What law have I broken
What wrong have I done
That makes you want to bury me
Upon this trail of blood

(chorus)

We cared for the land and the land cared for us
And that's the way it's always been
Never asked for more never asked too much
And now you tell me this is the end

I laid down my weapon
Laid down my bow
Now you want to drive me out
With no place left to go

(chorus)

And he turned to his people and said dry your eyes
We've been blessed and we are thankful
Raise your voices to the sky
It is a good day to die

Robbie Robertson

[Eloriel]

75. That is one of my all-time favorite albums of any kind, ever

In fact, it usually has me sobbing, it's so incredibly moving. Fabulous music.

[al bupp]

78. Agreed, very powerful

Played this over and over again while rocking my now five year old son
to sleep as an infant...

"I gave my love a golden feather
I gave my love a heart of stone
And when you find a golden feather
It means you'll never lose your way back home"

[seemslikeadream]

82. The truth lies in our hands

That's it isn't it al?


To our elders who teach us of our creation and
our past
So we may preserve mother earth for ancestors
yet to come
We are the land
To our brothers and sisters and all living things
across mother earth
Her beauty we've destroyed
And denied the honor the Creator has given
each individual
The truth lies in our hands
All my relations

[al bupp]

96. Mitakuye Oyasin

[seemslikeadream]

79. Now you've got me sobbing

Raise your voices to the sky

I love Robbie!

[olddem43]

Great news!

I hope it comes to fruition.

[yellowcanine]

8. An impeachment referral to the House Speaker? WWDD? What would Denny Do?

Heh.

[GiovanniC]

71. Take Down Bush AND Cheney?

Become president numero 44?

[IronLionZion]

9. Bush can easily PRETEND he doesn't know

and the Dems need to find some more backbone. Even if we can't impeach him, we can try and make sure he is personally disgraced enough to lose this election.

[senseandsensibility]

32. Exactly.

From past experience, we know that the Dems are not going to do what really should be done, ie. scream bloody murder for indictment and/or impeachment of *, but don't we at least have the right to expect them to pursue this? It could make the difference in November. I think all the Dems with safe seats should be raising a stink about this at top volume until election day.

[emulatorloo]

66. They yell and scream bloody murder every day, it just isnt reported on

or shown on TV. . .

Check DU, there are always threads about Dems raising hell on CSPAN --- and the stuff never sees the light of day. . .

[hang a left]

80. Really.....

noone calls anyone a fruitcake anymore.

:smoke:

[emulatorloo]

81. LOL I forgot about that one. . .n/t

[cmutt]

11. I want this to happen

..but I'm not convinced it will. Because the Repugs own the branches of gov't that they do, they've been (so far) very, very effective at squashing what would otherwise be very damning, embarassing, and sometimes illegal activities. Still, hearing news like this gives me hope. Thanks for the day-brightener!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

13. When does Bush do the perp walk???

[Guaranteed]

19. FROG MARCH!! FROG MARCH!!! nt

[tom_paine]

14. I will only believe it when I see it

I still maintain that many would have to sacrifice their careers, and more than a few would have to sacrifice their LIVES a la Wellstone or the Anthrax Victims before Bunnyoants* and His Reichscabinet gets anywhere NEASR trial or exposure.

That's how these people have operated, since long before Prescott Bush was laundering Hitler's Blood Money.

[Trajan]

16. George W Bush NEEDNT be impeached ....

He most certainly can be charged with a crime ....

Impeachment is a bid for removal from office ... AFTER conviction for 'high crimes and misdemeanors' ...

If reasonable evidence exists to show that Bush was involved EITHER in the exposure of Plame, OR a coverup of that exposure: then he CAN be charged with a crime ... Dont need impeachment to do that ...

[IronLionZion]

47. impeachment is NOT a bid for removal

It's to bring formal charges against an elected official. The Senate does impeachment, then the House can vote to remove in a separate move. The criminal conviction comes after all of that in a criminal court with a trial by jury.


Clinton was impeached but not removed FOR LYING ABOUT A BLOW JOB!!!.

[Bake]

57. I think you got it backwards

The House votes to impeach, the Senate conducts a trial and votes to remove from office.

Bake

[AP]

17. DU'ers don't really need to know the name of the reporter and the

workplace of your reporter's source.

Don't you think?

I'd be happy with a lot less.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. It's all specualtion

nothing more.

[AP]

24. But it might screw up the reporter's information gathering.

Let the reporter do his thing without blowing his cover.

[lancdem]

45. He was the one who worked with Michael Ruppert

on that recent Plamegate piece in www.fromthewilderness.com. His sources are unnamed people in the CIA and DOJ. They're the ones who need to be anonymous. I got his email from a google search.

[hang a left]

89. meaning no disrespect......

but why would the source email like this?

[lancdem]

90. To be honest, he's not a source per se

He's just been answering my questions based on what he's heard. He's the one with the sources, and he's never named any of them, of course.

[Tatiana]

29. Agreed.

Maybe the post should be edited. We don't want to compromise sources of important info.

Indictments are coming, however. I'm 98% sure of it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

42. Agreed here too. n/t

[librechik]

40. much as I want to seize on this, Wayne is From the Wilderness

my boss won't let me use them as a source. Hoping for more from somebody I can cite.

[Eloriel]

76. Your boss? If you're in the news biz, don't you think it would be

just a little inappropriate to break someone else's story?

Thank GOD, in this case, your boss doesn't approve of FTW as a source. Sheesh.

[librechik]

88. Just cuz I pitch a story doesn't mean it gets done (unfortunately)

about twice a year I luck out and they like my suggestion. I'm a tiny bump on the bottom of the totem pole.

AND if I had a chance to make a teeny story go BIG, I would certainly do everything possible to make it go, and give credit where credit is due, natch--but believe me, a story like this is the LAST thing they want to see from me!(sent it anyway) The big guys on top'll get it on their own toot sweet, if it's true.

[Fleshdancer]

23. wow. I'm speechless.

I was stunned to hear about the 70 minute interview as well. For four years Bush and his gang have gotten away with everything so it's hard to imagine he'll actually have to deal with actual consequence for a change.

Actually, I think Bush has lived his entire life screwing up and never having to pay the consequences of his actions. The psychological implications of living that way can't be good. Can't get into your state university? Then daddy will get you into Yale. Fail at owning an oil company in Texas? Then daddy's friends will bail you out. Investigated by the SEC for insider trading? Again, daddy will take care of it. Arrested for drunk driving? That's okay, daddy will try to make it go away. A young man during a time of war? Daddy will get you in to the National Guard. Don't show up for the National Guard? Well, that's okay too.

I'm interested in seeing how he handles having to grow up for a change and take responsibility for his actions for once.

[MallRat]

25. Hell, I'd even be happy with * being named an "unindicted co-conspirator"

At this point, job #1 is to GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE. Regardless of impeachment or criminal proceedings, if he's even NAMED as an unindicted co-conspirator, the ELECTION IS EFFECTIVELY OVER.

-MR

[NewJeffCT]

61. unindicted co-conspirator seems reasonable

Then, we can hit him with his Daddy's words - saying that a person leaking the name of an undercover operative is the most insidious of traitors.

[soothsayer]

27. ok, but the bastard still wasn't under oath

but i'm glad he's squirming with his private attorney at his side.

dumbass criminal swine

[IronLionZion]

50. He'll never be under oath

because then we could nail him for perjury. Big Dog found out the hard way. He can lie all he wants to while not under oath.

[soothsayer]

28. ok, but the bastard still wasn't under oath

but i'm glad he's squirming with his private attorney at his side.

dumbass criminal swine

[hang a left]

83. We don't know that.

It could have been a deposition. If it was it was conducted under oath, I think, and with a court reporter transcript. They do use those things in a trial, or to contradict prior or latter statements.

[Ugnmoose]

33. If Bush is implicated he is toast

It doesn't make any difference whether the House brings Articles of Impeachment the Chimp is a gonner. His poll numbers would plummet into oblivion and the wolves will start knocking on the door for heads to roll. Even the staunchest Repuke supporters will start running for the exits. If you think it was bad when the Clinton scandal hit - you ain't seen nothing yet.

And let's not forget that Torturegate is still looming out there. I bet there are many more damning documents yet to be leaked that will show complicity right up to and including The Chimp.

I think Plamegate is the first domino to fall, but there will many others before this whole thing plays out.

[yolatengo]

39. I wonder...

What you say makes sense, but I wonder if this won't be 'spun' into oblivion.

The GOP-controlled Congress will stonewall with all their very souls to make
sure this doesn't go down before Nov. Even if it DOES, it will be stalled with
cries of "partisan politics in an election year". The media will tell us stories
about Joe Wilson being a rabid wild-eyed Democrat.

In the end we will get "mistakes were made" and a congress that says
"well, that's good enough for us!". I still don't share everyone's optimism
UNLESS the intelligence community has HAD ENOUGH and MAKES * go
down for this. Even then, I see Daddy calling in old chits to diminish the
impact on *.

It's too complicated for the average person. It SHOULD boil down to
"there IS a LAW, a FELONY LAW, against outing an intelligence agent.
Someone definitely DID out that agent, for partisan political reasons.
Someone needs to go down!". They will muddy the water with their
"was she REALLY an 'agent'? WHO outed her? Nobody seems to know.
We CAN'T make a reporter (Novak) tell us, there's a SACRED BOND with
sources (breached all the time)! It's sooooo in the past and no one
was hurt over it!".

I see freeper types all the time basically saying "so WHAT? She was an
uppity Democrat bitch and so was her commie husband! It's no big
deal and you're a fucking TRAITOR if you want to ruin Bush over this!".
Rule of law be damned. Intelligence assets be damned. Power for the
GOP is ALL THAT MATTERS.

Bigby

[Ugnmoose]

52. This cannot be spun away

This is a felony crime that has very clear prescriptive punishment. The law was enacted to protect our intelligence community, especially those in deep cover such as Valerie Plame. Her outing was a malicious and vengeful act that served no purpose other than for political gain. It is very clear from the information made public that people in high positions were involved. My guess is that the Special Prosecutor has cut some deals with lower level staffers to grant them immunity for their testimony. This will be the basis for the case against Bush, et al. Any way you cut it and slice it there will be no defense against the charges.

Also think about this. The outing of a deep cover CIA agent whose primary mission was counter intelligence against terrorism renders Bushco's so-called War On Terrorism a total hyporcisy.

[yolatengo]

63. I agree, but...

Look, I am 100% in agreement that this is a crime and should be punished as
such. You would THINK that Republicans, lovers of Law and Order, Patriots
one and all, would NOT be looking to spin and stonewall the sh*t out of this
if for no other reason than the reason it was made a felony in the FIRST PLACE;
we NEED intelligence. If agents can be outed willy-nilly, good intelligence
and THEIR LIVES are at stake!

But nooooo. Eye on the Prize. The GOP currently has a 'see no evil' approach
to anything BushCo does. Unlike squishy Dems in the 90's ("well, maybe
there is something there, and if not, the TRUTH will exonerate Clinton, so
OK, have a hearing...") the GOP knows that their POWER will be GONE if
Bush loses. I think they really think they deserve to hold all power forever
and it's just NOT POSSIBLE for them to give it up. They are desperate. They
don't want a repeat of 1974 when the Dems swept dozens of GOP out of
Congress. Bush going down will take THEM down. Even Scooter Libby going
down may cost them a swing state or two.

Hence, I believe they really, truly will do everything in their power to make
that not happen, including completely stonewalling anything about Plame.
In addition, I think the 'street' GOP thinks this is no big deal.

It reminds me of living in Baltimore in '00 or so. Ray Lewis was on the
Ravens NFL team. He was at LEAST a material witness to MURDER if not
an accomplice. The lengths that Baltimorons would go to defend the
great Pro Bowler linebacker was astounding. In his case, and in Bush's
case, if I laid out the story for a person, but left the NAMES out, they'd
be saying "hang 'em!", but when you put the names in (lewis, bush) the
same people say "oh who cares? stop hurting our chances!".

Furthermore, it's just like Iran-Contra. The plain old FACTS are disgusting
and un-American. Ask any Gooper or red stater and their recollection will
be along the lines of "it was no big deal, the Dummycraps made a much
bigger deal out of it than it was, I'm not concerned about what they did,
Ollie is a hero". THAT was a crime too. THAT got a Special Prosecutor too.
THAT got a whole lot of nobodies convicted and no real damage to the
GOP (Bush WON in '88). THIS time, the GOP holds all the cards (they rule
congress, they rule the justice dept, they rule the supreme court, they
rule the media). Where will the momentum to make this a big deal come
from? Populist uprising? People didn't rise up against 90000 dis-enfranchised
voters in FL, lying about a war, Halliburton, why will they rise up about some
tony rich DC power couple losing their jobs and golden parachuting into
think tanks and book/movie deals even if it IS felonious? I feel bad for the
other field officers. Some are screwed because of this.

I'm just pessimistic any real harm will come to Bush or the GOP. I hope
it does in spades. I hope the whole party is reduced to ashes and no
right thinking American will vote for them again, but my suspicion is
that if ANYTHING happens it'll come IF the Dems take a house of congress
back in Nov, and even then, between Bush pardons and back room
'reconciliation' deals, no one will really go down and the GOP will say
"we're innocent and we promise not to do it again".

Bigby

[Ugnmoose]

68. All you say is valid

However, I am of a mind that there are forces at work here that want to bring this Administration down. These forces are very powerful (who do you think has been leaking the torture memos, etc.) Despite all the political spin, I believe that Bushco is so far over the top and have bungled things so badly that they are even a danger and threat to the corporatists and certain elements inside the government including Intelligence and Military. These people don't have a political agenda per se.

In any event I don't think it will be too much longer before we find out. This could get to be very interesting.

P.S. I keep thinking about Josh Marshall's blog last week about something very big happening soon that "will shift the tectonic plates in Washington" Of anything out there this one seems to be the most likely.

[Timefortruth]

92. Maybe it can be spun that way.

The freeper myth about Plame is that it was an open secret around DC that Plame was an agent. Within that myth is a subtext that she was very low-level and outing her was of no consequence security-wise. They have no support for this belief, but it is what will sustain them when (if) the shit hits the fan.

They also dwell on the fact that the in Vanity Fair article it was reported that Plame told Wilson that she was CIA during a make out session on their fourth date.Thereby discrediting how seriously Plame took her clearance at the same time as branding her as a slut. That she told him on the fourth date is true but they never mention that she had obtained permission before she informed Wilson, that permission was granted because he also had a security clearance.

Once the right gets done with this Novak will be awarded the Medal of Honor for his exposure of the outrageous traitors the Plame-Wilson's. As things stand now there has been no mainstream coverage of the real damage the outing of Plame caused US intelligence.

[IronLionZion]

54. Bush has been toast many times

and he's still high and dry. That bastard is covered in teflon. Nothing sticks.

We truly have the best democracy money can buy.

[Ugnmoose]

58. There is a big difference this time

Here we have an independent prosecutor who is working through a
Grand Jury. In every other instance we have had bull-shit congressional investigations or in the case of the 9-11 commission political insiders. I tell you this case has legs and it will hold up. Why do you think Bush and Cheney have hired private attorney's to represent them.

[ElementaryPenguin]

60. Excellent point, moose. Bush IS fucked! Can we get through til election

Day without getting LIHOPed or MIHOPed? That's the only question for me. BushCo's enemies at CIA would likely bust them if they dare try!

[IronLionZion]

64. Supposedly the CIA hates boy George

they had good relations with his daddy but W fucked that up with Plame and blaming the CIA for everything. These guys have been destroying wealthy and powerful world leaders for the last half century, and I think boy george will feel their wrath.

[nixonwasbetterthanW]

35. lancdem: Bush knows what?

knew Plame's identity before the leak? knows only the stuff that happened after the leak? knew about the plans to leak? knows who was involved either in the leak or the cover-up?

[lancdem]

48. Generally, it means he wasn't out of the loop

[Jim__]

36. This month meaning June? That's next week! Great! n/t

[TexasSissy]

37. I don't believe this. DOJ is a Bush administration office.

They want rumors spread around, so that when it becomes untrue, it'll make the Dems look bad.

I'll wait to see some evidence.

Also....I just don't think Bush is the one who makes decisions, so I'd be surprised if he knew anything until after the fact. Now Cheney is another matter.

[geek tragedy]

41. Career DoJ

people are dedicated and ruthless--they wouldn't care if it was Mother Theresa, Buddha, Shiva, or Mohammed they were targeting. If they think Bush broke the law, they'll wage war against him and anyone who gets in the way.

Just think about what Ken Starr did to people. That's how federal prosecutors generally operate.

Bush is sweating.

[TexasSissy]

46. Did you notice how they went after Martha Stewart, big Dem. contributor?

While they let Enron execs go on about their business? I'm convinced that was a Republican pushed indictment.

[geek tragedy]

55. Martha was a trophy

and they are most certainly going after the Enron fuckers (and in some cases their wives).

[TexasSissy]

67. NOW they are. But Martha was a higher priority..and small taters.

They went after Martha whole hog, even having a not so small number of investigators and prosecutors on the case. Her case was small potatoes in comparison to the Enron execs, but Ken Lay only recently was hauled into court. AFTER they took care of their priority, Martha.

I believe this was politically motivated. And it was handled by the DOJ, part of the Repub administration. Had she been a key Repub contributor, I don't think it would've happened that way.

[geek tragedy]

70. They've been going after Skilling and Fastow

Kenny Boy kept himself insulated from the crap--he knew it was going on but made it hard to link him directly to it. It takes a while to build a case under those circumstances.

[TexasSissy]

72. I know, I know. But it's MARTHA who was the priority. My point

is that the DOJ is not insulated from politics.

[geek tragedy]

73. Martha was an easy target

for the same reason that Skilling and Fastow were--they were so arrogant that they thought they could get away with it because they were rich and powerful.

I don't think prosecuting Martha and the Enron pricks was an either/or situation. Martha was just a fairly simple case without a ton of evidence, unlike the Enron situation.

From what I understand, most career DoJ people are liberal Democrats.

[sadiesworld]

53. I agree that * doesn't make POLICY decisions...

but POLITICAL decisions?! This nasty business is right up his alley, IMO. He knew.

[cheezus]

44. "Whitehouse Treason Scandal"

not Plamegate. sheesh. it's not like nixon got into trouble because of freaking "water"

[calimary]

105. NOW you're talkin'. We might as well start a MEME - repeat and repeat

yet again. We should make sure, if there's a hand turning up the heat, that we keep OUR hand on top of that hand to make sure it keeps turning in the correct direction.

By that, I mean we should start the drumbeat. USE THESE KILLER PHRASES WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Use them with each other. USE THEM with folks to whom you're talking up "Fahrenheit 9/11" - and those with whom you go see the movie and with whom you're standing in line. And your seat mates before the theater lights dim. USE THEM when you're writing letters to the editor, calling MSNBC or CNN or some place to complain or register an opinion, and ESPECIALLY if you get through on a radio talk show. USE THEM when you call into your congressperson's office, or your senator's. USE THEM when you're waiting at the checkout counter at the store and you strike up a conversation with another interested (and/or potentially disgusted) observer. USE THEM EVERYWHERE. Here, when you're posting. When you're sending email and the subject comes up. WHEREVER AND WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

And don't just assume your reps are gonna do the correct thing, unless you keep a fire lit under their asses. THAT'S what it's going to take. The fire just gettin' started? ADD FUEL. ADD KINDLING. ADD "Scout juice." ADD MARSHMALLOWS. You get the idea. This may need LOTS of pushing and shoving and helping to get it rolling, but it sure won't go ANYWHERE if we sit on our hands and just hope.

Can't wait to see what transpires...

[ThomWV]

49. I Pray Its True

One can only hope.

[Irishladdie]

51. 70 minutes with Shrub

I hope your right. I have one thought though, shrub talks with alot of uhm, uh, uhmmmm, uh, uhm's
That might be why it was 70 minutes!! LOL
Probobly 35 minutes of uhm's!!

[prodigal_green]

56. LBN: Frogs seen lacing up boots

Get ready to march little froggies!

[skooooo]

94. lmao...

good one!! :-)

[Zero Gravitas]

59. please please please let this be true

Bush deserves to be nailed "big time" for so many crimes and misdemeanors against the country, the human race and the English language. If he can be nailed for this it would be fantastic, the sooner the better. Unfortunately the slime in Congress won't impeach the "War-President" no matter how richly he deserves it, but getting indicted for LYING about something SIGNIFICANT would be just the ticket.

[ewagner]

62. My take?

For what it's worth:

Bush didn't order the outing but he was most certainly briefed BY SOMEBODY that they were taking political action by outing her.....

[calimary]

106. Yeah, I find that a reasonable assumption.

You have to remember, it was BOTH bush AND kkkarl rove who, TOGETHER, learned their awful, vindictive, dirty-tricks, hit-'em-below-the-belt, smear campaign tactics from the late snake Lee Atwater, during the Reagan/bush1 era. They were both operatives learning and training and trying their wings at the same level at the same time. They started being buds then. They still are. rove is like bush's right-hand as well as his brain. They're almost surgically attached. So ANYTHING kkkarl rove does, bush WILL get wind of it, or be in on it from the beginning, if indeed, he didn't suggest it, or ask if they couldn't come up with something to "git that disloyal, backstabbing Wilson bastard" and show him who's boss. Show him, in effect, how you don't mess with Texas.

And remember the mentality here. kkkarl will stoop as low as he has to - to achieve the objective. Scorched earth. Recall the "Vanity Fair" article a couple of years ago by the former insider guy who described sitting outside rove's office and overhearing him on a ferocious tirade on the phone to somebody, yelling how they were going to "fuck" some unfortunate third party "like he's never been fucked"? That, I believe, was also the article that first described the concept of "Mayberry Machiavellis."

These guys play rough. kkkarl even said, himself, to Chris Matthews, I believe, that "Wilson's wife is fair game." They get rougher every time. They've been ratcheting it up, little by little, for years. And they've long since learned that they CAN. Like Bill Clinton told Dan Rather he dabbled with Monica "because he could." You do it because you can. Because nobody ever checks your behavior or tells you not to, or tells you to stop or to back off, or that it's WRONG. You do it because you know A) you can get away with it, and B) that it works, and that C) nobody's going to tell you to give it up and play nice (after all, THEY know it works, too, and they benefit from it, so they're not EVER going to tell you to stop. It's not in their best interests to tell you to stop). And D) because they've NEVER GOTTEN CAUGHT, and NEVER HAD TO FACE ANY CONSEQUENCES FOR IT.

You get a template like THAT going, and working for you, over a factor of YEARS - heck, since at least the late 80's - and you start developing the impression that you're invincible. Up til now, after all, they pretty much have been. And that's certainly the image they project. Perception is everything, right? That, too, is in their own best interests.

So I bet what probably happened was bush got pissed because Wilson flamed him in public, and above all, HE HAS TO SAVE FACE. So he went to kkkarl and said "this fuckin' pissant Wilson is trying to make trouble for me. What can we do to git 'im?" And kkkarl took it from there. And if he didn't personally do some of it, he assigned it or deployed other people with a very clear mission to do it. And then, either he stuck his head in bush's office one day and said "about that Wilson thing, boss, we took care of it, heh-heh-heh, wink-wink." Or maybe he offered details. Or maybe bush pressed him - "oh yeah? Great! Whadja do? snicker-snicker-snicker."

So whether kkkarl fed him actual specifics or just told him the eagle has landed, as it were, it means he still knows. And if he told prosecutors and everybody else he didn't, that's lying. And obstruction of justice. Hence the alternate indictment.

Just guessing, anyway...

[JackDragna]

65. I've said it before and I'll say it again..

..the entire state of New Jersey will turn into a giant, flying robot before an indictment is brought against anyone in this administration for anything. Only Democrats get indicted: nobody would dare to do that to a Republican because of the dirty tricks the righties would play against those making the indictments.

[indepat]

69. So at first Walsh thought the now-deified Reagan was indictable but

afterwards realized Reagan really didn't know what was going on. Lucky for us the Gipper had already won the Cold War back when he still knew what was going on.

[grasswire]

74. Does Madsen know...

...that you are posting his email comments to you on a public message board, with his name? It's kinda skanky if he doesn't know.

[lancdem]

84. I've mentioned it

but it might be better to keep his name out for future reference, to be sure.

[Disturbed]

87. CIA

Tenet bootlicked BushCo but the CIA was scapegoated anyway. The rank and file of the CIA are still seething. If any of those agents have anything that can bring Shrub and Chainy down, it will surface. There are also some in the Pentagon that are real pissed off, as well. BushCo gang are so arrogant that they seem to think that they can screw over anybody and get away with it. Wrong!

[geek tragedy]

85. According to Madsen's sources

The Pope suspected that Bush was literally the Antichrist, as in 666.

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27/ai_108881880

Grain of salt taken.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

86. "Bush, however, does know what's going on."

Um, that's pretty doubtful.

[Myrina]

93. Don't be so sure ....

Ever hear of the term "Plausible Denial" ? These BFEE Mo-Fo's invented it. If nobody thinks you know anything, you can claim you didn't know anything, and someone else will take the fall.

Every time someone makes a comment about how stupid * is and how he's incapable of some of the shit that's happened under his watch, I am reminded of the scene from "Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey says "The greatest trick the devil ever played on the world was convincing it he didn't exist ..."

Bush et al would love us to think he's a folksy bumbling bubba, but - despite all his sociopathy - he is one conniving bastard.

[seemslikeadream]

95. FTW on Plame Case: GRAND JURY WILL SOON ISSUE EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS

FTW on Plame Case: GRAND JURY WILL SOON ISSUE EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS

GRAND JURY WILL SOON ISSUE EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS

by Wayne Madsen

June 25 , 2004


The ironies of this drama continue to proliferate. Here’s one: Nixon’s homegrown spy coven was called “The Plumbers,” because its primary responsibility was to stop leaks. But Dubya finds himself spending an hour and ten minutes in the hot seat (next to his personal lawyer) because his people created a leak – the felonious kind.

Dick Cheney is the President of the Senate, on whose hallowed floor he has just told Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) to “fuck off.” This regime is losing control of itself. The supra-governmental long-term plans that illegally drove them into office gave them a false sense of invulnerability. The money powers that make American presidencies had anointed Cheney and crew to run the country, so they could break as many rules, careers, laws, and heads as they chose – so long as they delivered the right number of barrels-per-day at the right price. They can’t. Having profligately wasted their political capital on torture, budgetary pork, and tax cuts, they have almost nothing left now that they’ve failed their sponsors.

In this latest report on the unfolding Plame investigation, Wayne Madsen shows what a long list of CIA people and projects have been compromised by the leak. John “Karl Rove” Doe and John “Dick Cheney” Doe seem to have no idea what kind of hibernating grizzly bear they’ve been jabbing at. They’ll find out now, because it just woke up. –JAH

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062504_grand_jury_summary.ht...


sorry if this has already been posted

[seemslikeadream]

99. more from the link - - It seems very very bad

Sensitive CIA operations that were compromised by the leak included companies, government officials, and individuals associated with the nuclear smuggling network of Pakistan's chief nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. In addition, the identities of U.S. national and foreign agents working within the headquarters of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, North Korea's nuclear laboratory in Yongbyon, Pakistan's Kahuta uranium enrichment plant, banks and export companies in Dubai, Islamabad, Moscow, Cape Town, Tel Aviv, Liechtenstein, Cyprus, and Kiev, and Kuala Lumpur, and government agencies in Libya, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Iran were severely compromised. The CIA has reportedly given Fitzgerald highly classified details on the damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network.

[Octafish]

100. Treason: damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network (NATSEC)

"The CIA has reportedly given Fitzgerald highly classified details on the damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network."

Wow! The CIA spilled its guts. Mebbe that's why Tenet quit. He knows his pretzeldunce is a traitor.



What took him so long is another matter...

[seemslikeadream]

103. I think this just maybe that tectonic plate shift

TPM was talking about.

[Octafish]

104. Yes, Rockefeller said "No" to any politicians for DCIA.

That means he doesn't want any tainted blood being brought in there. Seems the vulcans are on their way to the underworld, seemslikeadream!



As Bush weighs new CIA director, Rockefeller says don't pick a politician

KATHERINE PFLEGER SHRADER, Associated Press Writer Friday, June 25, 2004

(06-25) 16:28 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- As President Bush narrows the field of candidates for CIA director, a senior Senate Democrat is questioning the idea that he might choose spy-turned-congressman Porter Goss, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Friday it would be a mistake to let a politician -- "any politician from either party" -- succeed CIA Director George Tenet, who leaves next month.

Administration officials have said Bush is considering at least two people, including Goss. Rockefeller said he was concerned about the reports.

"The debacle related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction has damaged the credibility of the intelligence community and the image of the United States around the world," Rockefeller said. "We need a director that is not only knowledgeable and capable but unquestionably independent."

CONTINUED...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/06/25/national1801EDT0691.DTL

[Kazak]

98. *slobber*

Impeachment could circumvent catastrophy.

[REVOLT823]

101. I will be so utterly pleased if this happens

Someone really needs ot hold these guys accountable

[candy331]

102. Does Drudge have it yet? n/t