HELP ME!!!!

[ericmaxy]

First of all i have to admit, i'm not sure what side of the political fence i lean to (Hopefully that statement wasn't enough to get me banned) But i'm attempting to learn as much about both sides to see what fits in with my views. I've been reading alot recently, and have read many informative conservative based books that were informative, and i agree and disagree with many of the points made. But i can't seem to find any books that discuss the liberal position. All the ones i have read seem to primarily criticize the right without stating the liberal philosophy in a way that makes logical sense. I know they are out there, just not sure what they are. Open to suggestions.

[Justice]

1. Eric Maxy tsk tsk

Okay, I will bite - what books have you read that discuss the eh "liberal position"

Perhaps we can start with the ones you have already read and dismssed as being unable to "state the liberal philosophy in a way that makes logical sense"

[ericmaxy]

8. I recently read

"They only looked dead: Why progressives will dominate the next political Era" by E.J. Dionne
"Reason to believe" by Mario Cuomo
and "Whats Left" by Robert Mcelvaine

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Welcome to DU. Check out the quizzes on this page

the Political compass one will give you a reading list of books to look over based on your answers. :) (It's the one labeled: Take this test.)

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/libvsconserv.htm

[Career Prole]

3. ...and which conservative books did you find informative? n/t

[Worst Username Ever]

4. And don't say that the conservative books you have read

have been from Ann Coulter.

[ericmaxy]

12. i read half of "Treason" by Ann coulter

but it got a little monotonous

[Vickers]

5. Well, the New Testament of the Bible is an excellent place to start

Then you can read just about every book that has won the Pulitzer prize for fiction for the last, say, 50 years (especially A Confederacy of Dunces, which was 1981 I think).

That ought to get you started, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[RBHam]

6. Turn the other cheek...

And nuke the Middle East

[sendero]

9. Great...

... answer. And so true.

[Worst Username Ever]

13. Wasn't confederacy

in the mid 70's?

Or maybe it was just written in the 70's, I don't remember. Made me want to become a hot dog vendor.

Was that book written by a liberal? I never heard that, just that the guy killed himself before it was published.

[mike1963]

21. I'd leave out the epistles from Saul, the Terrorist of Tarsus, though...

:eyes:

[Th1onein]

37. Oh my God! A Confederacy of Dunces?

I thought I was the only one who loved that book!

[DrWeird]

7. middle of the road, eh?

"moore mostly just sings to the choir, of all the people i know, only the farthest left of us like him. Most of the middle do not like him. especially after the academy awards."

[napi21]

25. I disagree with you on Moore.

I like him and admire him for being one of a VERY few who have the balls to say what he thinks and not care what his opposition says about him.

I think he's preaching to the choir, but you've got the choir wrong.

[DrWeird]

31. Who?

Me or the guy who said it?

[Bunny]

10. Go see Fahrenheit /911.

Today.

After that, you may not have the complete answers to your questions, but you WILL know that you cannot support the current administration. That is, if you have a brain and a heart.

[DrWeird]

15. But Michael Moore is only for far leftists.

At least according to ericmaxy.

[Bunny]

20. Yes, he did say that, didn't he?

Wonder how long he'll be around?

[JHBowden]

11. The liberal tradition goes back to Locke and Mill.

One can also read modern defenses in Nozick and Rawls, which defend minimalist and robust variants of liberalism respectively.

[JHBowden]

17. Link (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Liberalism
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberalism/

[Cornus]

14. Just go to that movie that opened today...

...and see what side of the political fence you lean to then. I saw it this afternoon and have no understanding how anyone can support *.

[WilliamPitt]

16. *cracking knuckles*

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893956385/qid=1055796595/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-9670019-6436007?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0745320104/qid=1088203058/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-9670019-6436007?v=glance&s=books

That's my personal addition to the volume of paginated discussion, that and www.truthout.org

John Kenneth Gailbreath wrote a book called 'The Liberal Hour' which is worth reading.

Howard Zinn wrote 'People's History of the United States' and 'People's History of the 20th Century,' both of which are required reading.

If you want to read about what responsible government employees should look and act like, read 'Archibald Cox: Conscience of a Nation' by Gormley.

Robert Shogan's book 'Bad News: Where the Press Goes Wrong in the Making of the President' is an excellent treatise on the myth-making and bullshitting that has gone into every election since 1960.

But John Locke should be your starting point. He basically invented the concept of the country. An understanding of the Stuart monarchs and the concvept of absolute rulers should precede your reading

That should do for starters.

[ericmaxy]

19. thanks

i'll try those

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

18. Feel comfortable in a pigeon hole?

Not being inflammatory but when you say "read.. agreed and disagreed..." .. I'm just going out on a limb to guess that if you read a 'liberal' book you're going to feel exactly the same way.

Personally my viewpoints on different topics seem run a full spectrum from liberal to conservative but usually stopping before I reach the fringes of either side.

What part of today's divisionist rhetoric and political meanderings make you think you must side squarely on one side or the other?

[Frances]

22. Go see Farenheit 9/11

Then start reading books

These are the basic differences as I see them (I acknowledge that many of my ideas come from Bruce Catton's famous essay contrasting Grant and Lee):

Conservatives beliefs: A very authoritarian form of government with power in the hands of the rich. A very class conscious society where everyone knows "his and her place." Government uses religion, not facts and critical thinking, to justify their actions.

Liberal beliefs: Democracy is best because no one knows what is best for you better than you do yourself. Belief that one's place in life should be determined by one's ability and hard work. The government should guarantee every person the right to practice religion as the person sees fit, but government should not use religion as an excuse to impose its will on the people.

It's true that segregationists used to rail against the federal government, but the states rights they preached allowed each state to put into effect the conservative beliefs above. I was born and raised in Alabama which prided itself on states rights, but I had much more freedom when I moved to Maryland, which was more concerned with human rights.

[Democat]

23. What do you think of Bill Clinton?

:)

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

26. (Pretending, for a moment, you're being sincere...) Read John Rawls ...

Rawls, John (1971); A Theory of Justice; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
Rawls, John (1993); Political Liberalism; New York: Columbia University Press.

First and foremost, remember that the sole purpose of government is to establish, protect, and maintain a system of justice. Without justice, no government has legitimacy.

In the US today, the most pervasive injustices are economic. (Neo)conservatives believe that a person has a 'right' to be enriched far beyond any measure of investment or equity if, by hook or by crook, that person is able to leverage their 'ownership' of some 'property' to enrich themselves. (What's conveniently ignored is that the very existence of 'property' and ownership' are dependent on a civil governance in which their very existence is established and enforced.)

These people do not, however, believe that a laborer has a 'right' to fair compensation: a compensation matching the actual value that their labor creates. This is why they put human labor into the same soulless system as dirt and manure: a "market." This is a fundamental way of thinking that reduces human beings to commodities, treating labor in essentially the same way as it was during slavery.

A liberal cannot tolerate a slave market.

[SOteric]

27. Here is my reading list of liberal/political works I recommend

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1617260#1618065

I'd encourage you to be open to reading them. Just because some may say unkind things about George Bush doesn't mean there isn't merit in the arguments they present. People are angry with Bush, but not without good reason.

[Zorra]

28. Read Thomas Jefferson. Start with the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson wrote a lot of liberal philosophy.

[kiahzero]

29. A good book is "Big Lies" by Conason

It's a bit dense, but it's a thorough examination of the lies the right-wing puts out there to win the support of those their policies hurt.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312315600/qid=1088209849/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-7602629-1521410?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[vetwife]

32. Please order this Cd.....It is civil and truthful

http://cafeshops.com/focusgroupnow.9200633
It is called Take It Back

You will get facts..Documented.
You will hear of real people how things have affected them
You will know the real cost of this war and comparison to what could have been acomplished under different leadership.
It is an appeal of information to the undecided such as yourself
It is not all negative and it is something to believe in.
I know this..I am the author, producer and artist.
If you are looking for truth..It is there. I am a person of faith and my husband fought in Vietnam and I am an advocate for veterans and the disabled. I am moderate.
My name is Amanda Kato
They call me vetwife
I don't embellish and I don't make things look the way they aren't in other words..I don't spin ! Get it and I think you may have a better handle on where we are and where we are headed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. I am greatly moved by your obvious sincerity....

NOT.

[mistertrickster]

33. Okay, must reads are as follows in order of importance--

1. REASON, by Robert Reich
2. LIES and the LYING LIARS who tell them, by Al Franken
3. WHAT'S the MATTER with KANSAS, by Thomas Frank

The bottom line is liberals believe what a clear majority of Americans believe--

fund education, social security, and medicare
protect people from corporate greed, unsafe cars and products, and pollution
work toward equal opportunity for all and a decent standard of living for all
and
stay out of our frickin' bedrooms and churches.

Conservatives believe the opposite.

[Eloriel]

34. I'm thinking,

in addition to some of the excellent suggestions above, about the new book by Paul Krugman (which I haven't myself read yet and whose name always seems to escape me), but he is, IMO, one of the most straight-up unapologetic but clearly rational and logical writers today. This one will be largely economics, but definitely for the lay person.

[Independent_Minded]

36. hehe, not trying to flame or anything

but Krugmans a hack. When he worked for Reagan, he predicted crushing inflation after the tax cuts. WRONG. these days he works as an editorialist for the Times but still presents his columns as if they were factual in nature. as an economist, i feel that it is people like him that allow others to equate us to weathermen. He finds his solution and then generates data to support it. he is no form of scientist.

[0rganism]

35. Be sure to read the FAQs from Liberalism Resurgent

Steve Kangas devoted the last years of his life to writing a rather concise description of liberalism, in the form of two excellent FAQs, one long and one short. Also included are volumes of evidentiary information and jumping-off points for more in-depth studies.

Click Here --> http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/tenets.htm <-- Click Here