ABC "fact-checking" F9/11...coming right up

[buycitgo]

anybody see the job Candy Crowley wannabe Lisa "little fridge" Meyers did today on MSNBC?

what do you want to bet they do the same thing now?

she mostly attacked Moore's OPINIONs, only a couple of factual analyses, which were WRONG, if one goes to Moore's site

can't wait for this

[Insider]

1. i had to leave the room

that's sad. i wanted to see/hear the report, but i can't take a chance. waiting for your review

[niceypoo]

19. FACT: Bring pretzels to the theater

Show them how ya feel!

[TheMightyFavog]

2. Who's side are you fucking on, Clarke?

My goodness!

[buycitgo]

6. he's on ABC's payroll, in case you didn't know

starting to wonder.....did they get to him?

I taped it; will go back and see what he said about the flights, as he was PISSED in his book about how cavalierly they let these people go.

remember?

[buycitgo]

3. moore fails to say flights were greenlighted by Clarke

so WHAT?

moore "hints" that Bush may have gone easy on Saudis cause of financial ties

they show Richard Clarke saying "that's nuts"

uh oh

then they talk about the idyllic Iraq he shows, without saying how bad Saddam is

SO WHAT?

that was IT, except for one thing I didn't get while typing

unbelievable

WTF is up with Clarke, though? he's defending Bush in this, or appears to be.....wonder what else he said, as he was closely edited, WRT the Saudi connection

at any rate, that was an OPINION, not a "Fact"

they did not refute ONE factual inaccuracy

only OPINIONS, just as Meyers mostly did

how can they get away with this?

[ikojo]

4. It was NBC not ABC that Lisa Meyers did the "fact check"

on. Gotta kiss *'s butt you know. Oooh so the NEPHEW of ONE congressman was called up to Afghanistan and they want to say Michael Moore did not get it right. Oy vey! Let's see, the percentage of well off kids in the army versus those who don't come from the upper middle class....I say it's probably 9 poor/lower middle class kids to one rich kid in the army. I also suspect that most of the rich kids are officers.

Going to see F/911 in just over an hour.

[buycitgo]

10. I know....this a different one....much shorter, less detailed, BUT

more "believable" because of Clarke's presence

still, he's only giving his opinion, not refuting with facts

[TryingToWarnYou]

41. Nephew? Wasnt it sons and daughters that was the issue?

NT

[buycitgo]

44. I think what the criticism said was that there was ONE

congressman who had somebody over there, but it was the Afghan, not Iraq

Moore's point in the movie, I do believe, was regarding soldiers in IRAQ, which is the whole point of his movie.....NOT Afghanistan

they lie all the time, tryiing to bait and switch

[Justice]

5. Wish They Did Some Fact Checking Before We Went To War

Amazing that now they are eager to fact check.

[Democat]

8. All U.S. media will be fact checking Moore, while repeating Bush

They treat everything Bush says as the truth and everything anyone critical of Bush says as a lie. That's the U.S. media.

[buycitgo]

9. exactly........did they EVER run any segments using that title?

fact checking Bush's SOTU?

fact checking Powell's UN cartoon show?"

fact checking Cheney's "reconstituted nuclear weapons program?"

WHEN did they ever do shows checking that sort of thing?

have they done anything like that yet?

[Michael Costello]

35. Moore said that on NBC...

Moore was being cross-examined by Matt Lauer on MSNBC and he said he wished they had been as tough on what the administration was saying before the war as they are on him.

A lot of what I've heard is just mud-throwing. Computer people call it FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. They're hoping to cast doubts on what he says and hope most people won't be paying attention. They seem to be focused on the Bin Laden air line thing, but in the movie it said what no one seems to dispute - on 9/13 planes flew around picking up Bin Ladens around the country when no one else was allowed to fly.

Moore is getting smarter as he goes along and leaving very little for people to attack him with. He is more ready for the attacks against him that will come than he was beforehand. If you really listen to what they say, there's not really much there that undoes anything.

Most of what they do is focus on a few things and say Moore isn't giving "both sides of the isssue". Well the problem is we only get one side of it as it is. People can see the movie and then go watch Fox News for another side. I haven't seen one attack that said anything in the movie was factually untrue.

[Hobo]

38. That's called

a non denial denial

Peace

Hobo

[Cocoa]

7. they're so smarmy

Moore has got to be an embarrassment to these whores. Peter Jennings especially, after he made such a fool of himself over Bush AWOL, thanks to Moore.

edit: their "debunking" of Saudi money having an influence on Bush is just one guy saying it's not true.

[dennis4868]

11. Clarke did not give.....

the final orders to allow the saudis to fly on and after 911...FBI called in and said let them fly and Clarke simply said, "okay." Clarke did not have the authorization to give the saudis permission to fly on 911....WTF is up with Clarke? Everyone please read Unger's book and you will get the truth of that entire episode on 911....senior WH officials tell the FBI to let the saudis fly and in turn the FBI calls Clarke and tells him they are going to fly to Krentucky...and clarke says, okay!

[buycitgo]

14. agreed.......I read his book, and he was PISSED that they did that,

especially without interviewing them

the debunkers CAN't win on this one

what person in their right mind would want to let these people out of the country within DAYS of the event?

all one has to do is remind the imbeciles out there how many hundreds (thousands?) of arabs, etc., were rounded up and held incommunicado for MONTHS, under no suspicion at all?

what kind of sense does THAT make?

[dennis4868]

12. Shit....

the media remembers what fact checking is....

[Insider]

13. propaganda techniques

coming stronger and more often. i'll post them every time they apply. and ironically, the web source is freerepublic.com from 1998. they were using the army manual to pick at the clinton admin (amateurs compared to the bush propagandists).

--snip--
Card stacking or selective omission. This is the process of choosing from a variety of facts only those which support the propagandist's purpose. In using this technique, facts are selected and presented which most effectively strengthen and authenticate the point of view of the propagandist. It includes the collection of all available material pertaining to a subject and the selection of that material which most effectively supports the propaganda line. Card stacking, case making, and censorship are all forms of selection. Success or failure depends on how successful the propagandist is in selecting facts or "cards" and presenting or "stacking" them.
Increase prestige. In time of armed conflict, leading personalities, economic and social systems, and other institutions making up a nation are constantly subjected to propaganda attacks. Card stacking is used to counter these attacks by publicizing and reiterating the best qualities of the institutions, concepts, or persons being attacked. Like most propaganda techniques, card stacking is used to supplement other methods.

The technique may also be used to describe a subject as virtuous or evil and to give simple answers to a complicated subject.

An intelligent propagandist makes his case by imaginative selection of facts. The work of the card stacker in using selected facts is divided into two main phases:
- First, the propagandist selects only favorable facts and presents them to the target in such a manner as to obtain a desired reaction.
- Second, the propagandist uses these facts as a basis for conclusions, trying to lead the audience into accepting the conclusions by accepting the facts presented.
--snip--

ref:
"Propaganda Techniques" is based upon "Appendix I: PSYOP Techniques" from "Psychological Operations Field Manual No.33-1" published by Headquarters; Department of the Army, in Washington DC, on 31 August 1979

[buycitgo]

17. excellent! did you post another one today, elsewhere?

love the propaganda stuff

you KNOW Rove's been studying Bernays, Goebbels, Ellul, on and on

almost EVERYthing they do is aimed at the emotional perceptual level.

they CANNOT allow anyone to analyze what's being said, or to give their mendacious assertions any context

[Insider]

28. propaganda is cranked up now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1851881#1857930

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1852067&mesg_id=1852466

[Eloriel]

29. Got a link for that, pretty please?

Looks like it could be VERY useful.

[Insider]

32. psychological operations army manual fm 33-1

easy link is at freerepublic.com, where they used it as reference against clinton admin in 1998:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a360d496e0c97.htm

just google it to find another web source.

[2Design]

15. Dan Harris Reporting.....he was the person talking

They basically said this was all bunk....."like trying to get something healthy from a fast food place" They may have even said McDonalds.....


This was definitely a blast at the film....and they used short bits from Richard Clarke.....but made me wonder what else they were talking to clarke about.....

This was a totally put down....but from what some of DUers have said...MM puts down the media for not doing their job....so they may be attacking back.....

[LEW]

16. What a piece of *** reporting

Final remarks where that this may cast doubt on the rest of the documentary............Lisa Myers has always been a totally biased reporter, and I don't believe a word she says. Makes me mad this is accepted as true fact checking!!!!

[buycitgo]

18. this was NOT the baby fridge's report.....that was on MSGOP

this was ABC

two different reports; both equally damning, equally, uh, fictitious

[dennis4868]

20. the saddest.....

thing from the ABC report is that we now know that Richard Clarke is a whore...he sold himself out to his pimp ABC/Disney! He completely contradicted his book tonight....really said day! I thought he was one guy that would never sell himself out....

[bushwakker]

21. Why is it that Moore's movie gets fine tooth comb scrutiny

yet RWers prattle on, telling lie after lie through the nation's airwaves, hour after hour day after day?

[dennis4868]

22. welcome to the age....

of the corporate media....lie about war and thousands die because of the lie....no problem! Lie about a BJ....you are dead!

[bushwakker]

24. God if the nets spent half as much time checking the truth

or falsity of what presidential candidates say we might actually have an informed electorate.

[buycitgo]

23. BOMBSHELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clarke contradicts himself in this hit piece!!!!!

OK.....who's got Clarke's book?

I gave mine away already, but I'm pretty sure he was NOT happy with those flights taking off without any sort of interrogation

this is from the TAPE I made of the show:

CLARKE: I thought the flights, uhhhhhh, were, correct, uhhhhh, the Saudis had reasonable fear, uhhhhh, that they might be the subject of vigilante attacks in the united states--after 911. and there is no evidence even to this date that any of the people who left on those flights were people of interest to the FBI.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really can't believe he SAID that shit!

well, gee, Dick, maybe cause they LEFT the country without being interrogated, and will NEVER be available AGAIN might be part of the reason they weren't "people of interest??????" maybe if they HELD some of these people, including the guy who supposedly KNEW about 911 in advance, they might have BECOME people of interest???

scratch Richard Clarke, far as I can see?

again, who's got the book? did I get this wrong

those quotes are word for word, with the uhhhhhs included, which tell me he's LYING

[dennis4868]

25. crap....

i gave my Clarke book to my dad and he is in Florida.....

[carolinayellowdog]

26. How the hell can he know Bush's motives for ignoring Bin-Laden?

Clarke SO confidently denied that the family connection played any role in the negligence of this administration. He lost a lot of credence for me for pretending to know such a thing and use it to attack Moore.

[dennis4868]

27. like i said....

another media whore was born tonight....Richard Clarke....employee of ABC.

[Timefortruth]

40. Naw, they must have found his Achilles Heel

like they found O'Neill's, a week after O'Neill said "I'm old and I'm rich there is nothing they can do to me" he went totally silent.

They Trashed Clarke and that didn't work so now they found the something that would work, we'll never know what.

[Lugnut]

43. I gave my copy to my sister.

I'll see if I can get it from her tomorrow. It's a while since I read the book but I don't think he was agreeable to the FBI directive.

[NWHarkness]

30. They have a vested interest in discrediting Moore

Because, if he is telling the true story, the obvious question becomes, why haven't they?

[ItsMyParty]

31. Do they fact-check the spew of Limbaugh and the other

criminal element voices of the republican party?? (all those rightwing radio boys who have broken our laws and now are making a fortune spewing garbage--i.e, Ollie, etc.)??? I didn't think so. In fact, have they fact checked their own whore media???????????

[submerged99]

33. Those were only a few of his arguments

Notice that the networks aren't saying anything some of Moore's other statements in the film.

1. no weapons of mass destruction
2. poor people make up the bulk of the military
3. civilians were killed in iraq
4. most of the hijackers were saudi's and none were Iraqis and Iraq was never involved in the planning or execution of 9/11
5. The U.S backed Iraq in the 80's

Those are just a few and DU ers can fill the rest out. The networks didn't bother to confirm that these were all in fact true.

[Karenina]

34. My understanding

if the many posts from those who have seen the film with their own "lying eyes" is that the BULK of it is clips of the "players" speaking in their OWN voices. WHAT IS TO "FACT CHECK???" :crazy: :freak: :crazy:

[qanda]

36. Amazing that there is a higher standard for Michael Moore

Than there is for our president. Just amazing!

[Innoma]

42. Debunking Moore? Please!

You know, its getting to the point where I am just sick of watching the news anymore. Every news media outlet in the US spewed forth all the fallacious reasons for the necessity of impending war, and to add icing to the cake, most of the newscasters and talking heads seemed to be breathlessly awaiting the Shock & Awe Show as if it were some kind of theatre. Later, when the reality belatedly sets in and the media has to step back a fraction from their bloodthirsty push for war and their so-called facts, every right-winger in the country screams the media have always been liberal traitors who are undermining the country when, in fact, it was this very traitorous media that handed the war to our government on a silver platter with a side order of 'Zieg Heil!' So, it sickens me to see this newly minted 'fact-checking' and 'objective analysis' regarding Fahrenheit 9/11 given the media's highly questionable objectivity -- just *where* have these fools been these past few years?. It takes a heavy dose of hypocracy for any newscaster to be able to 'debunk' Moore's movie while holding forth the illusion they are somehow being fair and balanced. Please.

[Skittles]

37. oh, NOW they're "fact-checking"??????????

f***ing lazy-ass WHORES.

[kiahzero]

39. That was bullshit.

Unsubstantiated assertions abound.

"Liberal media" my ass. We should be so lucky.