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Who wrote F9/11? We did, right here at DU.

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:07 AM
Original message
Who wrote F9/11? We did, right here at DU.
Michael Moore has been lurking here from Day One.

DU and Buzzflash and Democrats.com were the inspiration for MM.

Where ELSE did he learn the truth? He sure didn't get it from CNN or FOX or the NY Times or the Washington Post.

He got it right here on the Net.

Michael deserves a lot of kudos, but...so do we.

And so does Al Gore, for seeing the potential of the Net before anyone else back in the days when it was called the Information Super Highway.

Without the Net, Bush would have succeeded in destroying Democracy.

Think about that.

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sure does seem like that whole movie was taken straight
from our threads, don't it?

Wouldn't be surprised at all if he was here. :)
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Actually,
Gore was passionate about the 'Net back when it was still
called the ARPANET, and there was the other protocol called
GOSSIP that was supposed to replace IP and so on...

Coming from someone that programmed one the first IMPs, back
when the Arpanet had about 20 nodes (yeah, that's a while back).
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Without the Net, Bush would have succeeded in destroying Democracy."
Wow, never thought of that! You are so right! :thumbsup:
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fsbooks Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. The net was founded to save democracy (from a nuclear strike)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It saved democracy from a more "conventional strike"
That of Orwellian Tyrants.

let's not go celebrating yet. THERE IS MUCH MORE WORK TO DO!

This thing ain't over by a long site!

Get off your asses and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT PEOPLE!

www.johnkerry.com
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. omg, i know NOTHING! bookmarking & thanks! nt
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Certainly is possible but... probably likely... but...
where did WE get the info?
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. By doing our homework, by reading the blogs, by questioning
the propaganda, by reviewing ALL the facts, etc...

By using a little common sense and connecting the dots.

The media had the same info. They covered it up or were too lazy to dig. So did Congress, except for a few like Kucinich and Stark and Wellstone.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. yeah, that's true...
And I'm not doubting Moore could have drawn a great deal from DU... but he also must read the blogs, etc.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. It's a huge machine. We read (and run) blogs and post new info and ideas
here on DU and on other messageboards, where more people pick up the info and run with it some more. And lurkers and many posters take this info and put it into non-internet formats, by talking about it to friends, relatives, coworkers, etc., giving speeches, printing fliers, writing print articles, making movies...
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. I thank The Big Guy for the internet every time I sign on
And I have to give all of us and MM lots of credit. Also Howard Dean who was right all along. We aren't any safer and the war was wrong and we should never send our kids to fight over seas wihtout telling them the truth about why we are going.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Two heads are better than one: "The Wisdom of Crowds"
Imagine how much better than one pinhead are 46,000!

The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki

Why the Many Are Smarter Than the Few and How Collective Wisdom Shapes Business, Economies, Societies and Nations


Chapter One

If, years hence, people remember anything about the TV game show Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?, they will probably remember the contestants' panicked phone calls to friends and relatives. Or they may have a faint memory of that short-lived moment when Regis Philbin became a fashion icon for his willingness to wear a dark blue tie with a dark blue shirt. What people probably won't remember is that every week Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? pitted group intelligence against individual intelligence, and that every week, group intelligence won.

Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? was a simple show in terms of structure: a contestant was asked multiple-choice questions, which got successively more difficult, and if she answered fifteen questions in a row correctly, she walked away with $1 million. The show's gimmick was that if a contestant got stumped by a question, she could pursue three avenues of assistance. First, she could have two of the four multiple-choice answers removed (so she'd have at least a fifty-fifty shot at the right response). Second, she could place a call to a friend or relative, a person whom, before the show, she had singled out as one of the smartest people she knew, and ask him or her for the answer. And third, she could poll the studio audience, which would immediately cast its votes by computer. Everything we think we know about intelligence suggests that the smart individual would offer the most help. And, in fact, the "experts" did okay, offering the right answer-under pressure-almost 65 percent of the time. But they paled in comparison to the audiences. Those random crowds of people with nothing better to do on a weekday afternoon than sit in a TV studio picked the right answer 91 percent of the time.

Now, the results of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? would never stand up to scientific scrutiny. We don't know how smart the experts were, so we don't know how impressive outperforming them was. And since the experts and the audiences didn't always answer the same questions, it's possible, though not likely, that the audiences were asked easier questions. Even so, it's hard to resist the thought that the success of the Millionaire audience was a modern example of the same phenomenon that Francis Galton caught a glimpse of a century ago.

As it happens, the possibilities of group intelligence, at least when it came to judging questions of fact, were demonstrated by a host of experiments conducted by American sociologists and psychologists between 1920 and the mid-1950s, the heyday of research into group dynamics. Although in general, as we'll see, the bigger the crowd the better, the groups in most of these early experiments-which for some reason remained relatively unknown outside of academia-were relatively small. Yet they nonetheless performed very well. The Columbia sociologist Hazel Knight kicked things off with a series of studies in the early 1920s, the first of which had the virtue of simplicity. In that study Knight asked the students in her class to estimate the room's temperature, and then took a simple average of the estimates. The group guessed 72.4 degrees, while the actual temperature was 72 degrees. This was not, to be sure, the most auspicious beginning, since classroom temperatures are so stable that it's hard to imagine a class's estimate being too far off base. But in the years that followed, far more convincing evidence emerged, as students and soldiers across America were subjected to a barrage of puzzles, intelligence tests, and word games. The sociologist Kate H. Gordon asked two hundred students to rank items by weight, and found that the group's "estimate" was 94 percent accurate, which was better than all but five of the individual guesses. In another experiment students were asked to look at ten piles of buckshot-each a slightly different size than the rest-that had been glued to a piece of white cardboard, and rank them by size. This time, the group's guess was 94.5 percent accurate. A classic demonstration of group intelligence is the jelly-beans-in-the-jar experiment, in which invariably the group's estimate is superior to the vast majority of the individual guesses. When finance professor Jack Treynor ran the experiment in his class with a jar that held 850 beans, the group estimate was 871. Only one of the fifty-six people in the class made a better guess.

CONTINUED...

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~27~2224096,00.html

PS: I agree 100 percent with you TruthIsAll! Remember when the hardliners tried to overthrow Gorby during perestroika? During the coup, the Soviet people stayed in touch via cell phone, fax machine and e-mail. They kept hope alive. Sounds more than familiar to anyone whose studied the BFEE and the current sea change. Our work's not done, however, and won't be -- even after January 2005.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Al Gore and the Information Super Highway
I'm not sure if he coined that term, Information Super Highway, but he certainly was the one who brought it into common use as the centerpiece of his 1988 presidential campaign.

If ever a politician was also a visionary, it's AL GORE, the rightful president of the United States.

Oh, and yeah, the net is saving American democracy. And to think, the pundits were thinking it would do a number on CHINA!
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. Gotta agree with you, TruthIsAll.
There wasn't much in the movie that surprised me and I learned all of it all right here.

I heard the folks sitting behind me whisper "I didn't know that" to each other several times and I also heard a few gasps of surprise from other people.

I hope they noticed my DU t-shirt; several people asked me about it and I'm wearing it again on Monday night to the MoveOn Town Meeting.

I am privileged to belong to this group.

We rock!

:headbang:
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. kick
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yes we do. Guys, this is no common "site." This is a Think Tank.
The longer I stay here, the more I realize it.

There is a superior, HIGHLY effective, resourceful, wide-ranging, even rapid-response research department here. There are writers and journalists here. There are historians and academics here. There are business and economic specialists here. Parenting and home/family management consultants. There is crisis counseling here. We have fellows here (yes. Let's call them what they are. Fellows in a Think Tank) from many different nations, and certainly every state in the union. We have outreach. We have logos and stickers and other PR paraphernalia further confirming us as a recognized organization. We have planning and strategy experts. I read one assessment of this site as saying we debated and discussed issues at a post-graduate level here. We are beyond just a site. We are a Think Tank.

The only difference between us and the Brookings Institution or the Heritage Foundation or the American Enterprise Institute is that we fellows of the Democratic Underground are not underwritten by grants, or paid a salary or stipend like the folks at those other outfits. But we are, otherwise, every bit as much a Think Tank as they claim to be.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. True, and perceptive, words, calimary --
I love this place. Whenever I get irritated at something here, it's always because I'm afraid it might undermine what you just described, and those among us who write, and are active, under non-DU names.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. All of that AND
an incredible Focus Group for the Left.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Greg Palast is a major source of his, I think.
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 03:05 PM by GreenPartyVoter
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I agree...and you, more than most, have been religiously providing the
material and truths for his use. At least you can say you did your part. :yourock:
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ya know, I was thinking along those same lines.
Not to minimize Moore's dedication and hard work, mind you, but F-9/11 is a movie based on the things that we've been talking (ranting) about since Day One. I wouldn't suggest that he stole any ideas from us, but I wouldn't be surprised if he visited here (among many other sites) for a little bit of direction once in a while.

It's good to be vindicated, isn't it?
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think he got his Afghanistan Oil Wars stuff from my website
Which I've always had as my sig.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Complete agreement, but add bloggers to that mix!
But you are by and large correct, sir!
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh yeah, baby...Oh yeah!
They don't call it Democratic Underground for nothing. It IS Democracy in action, right here, right now. We are a think tank - Extraordanaire!

We are the people. As in 'We the People of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect Union'. Never doubt it and never forget. We will rule. We will form a more perfect Union.

And, Michael Moore owes DU. He should send a big fat check to Skinner. A big fat check every year, forever Moore!

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