Big Dog f's Monica again

[mdmc]

according to her comments on his book.

Her best quote mentioned that she was the same age as Chelsea Clinton when she had her affair with Clinton. How would the big dog react if they destroyed Chelsea's life the way they destroyed her life.

What say you, DU?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I do feel badly for her, but

the few times I've heard her talk.. well.. she just didn't sound like a victim to me. It seemed like she knew what she was getting herself into.

The one line that sticks out was her explaining away to one of the blonde newscaster gals that lifting her skirt on the way out of the room to show Bill her thong was just "flirting".

Sorry, but to me that's way beyond just flirting.

[Eloriel]

22. She's one sick puppy -- and yes, I feel sorry for her, but NOT

exactly for what she'd like me to feel sorry for her about.

She needs some strong therapy and quick, judging both from her delusions about Clinton that got her into this mess in the first place, and apparently continuing.

I haven't sorted out in my own head what, if anything, he "owes" her (probably because there are a number of things I find it more important to spend my time thinking about) but she seems to think he should acknowledge that he ruined her life. Noooooo, little girl, you were an equal participant in something both of you should've known was stupid, at the very least.

This revelation of continued expectations about Clinton, as well as the refusal to acknowledge her own responsibility for her part in her ruined life, as well as her not having her shit together enough to have avoided that kind of nonsense in the first place, all add up to a young woman in serious need of help. I strongly suspect that she was sexually abused as a child (Clinton too, for that matter -- he shows all the signs of sexual addiction, IMO, incl. or esp. the high risk behavior, the thrill of possibly getting caught).

Sick.

[Tellurian]

40. Monica is a hired gun!!!!

One of BC's biggest flaws is not wanting to think or speak badly of people. It may be the 'guilt' he carrys for personal failing, I don't know. But THEY know his weakness, and they use it to hurt him and his family immensely. She doesn't realize she is being used and used to sully Hillary!!!

He has to neutralize the power she holds over him...somehow.
I haven't thought about it long enough to suggest.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

51. Hired Gun + Skank

She went to Washington as a self-confessed Gold Digger. She was old enough to know what she was doing and certainly old enough to know better. Any comparison to Chelsea Clinton only underscores what a low-class, no-account character she is.

[Tellurian]

55. You have to realize why she has been given the green light by the VRW..

Her mission this time is not Bill, it's Hillary..

[linazelle]

2. How is Monica's comment a "f***" by the Big Dog?

"Again"?

And, isn't Chelsea grown? So was Monica.

[mdmc]

6. She felt like the relationship was one of mutual affection

and was hurt by the Big Dog's assertion that he did it "for the worst reason (motivation); because he could."

[lancdem]

11. Whether there was mutual affection is irrelevant

He was a married man, period, and they both should've known better.

[Tellurian]

50. Monica's purpose isn't about the past---This is about the Future..

Hillary's future. The VRW have resurrected Monica to hurt Hillary's chances for the presidency, no matter what date she selects to run...

Monica is too myopic to see how she has become "thee" tool to destroy us all, by the Right Wing...Straighten up girl...this is bigger than you and your empty head could ever fathom.

[Capn Sunshine]

25. She felt like that about all the married men she had affairs with

I think the problem, which she was being treated for by psychotherapists, lies more with Monica's view of what is and is not mutual affection.

The question I always wanted to know was WHO (Stephanopolous?)KNOWING Monica's treatment history and previous employment record of bouncing around from imbroglio to imbroglio, WHO vetted this girl and put her in proximity to a man with a known weakness in this area?
WHO?

[Booster]

29. And she took 4 million for her book

because she "could". She went after him with a vengence and he fell for it - he was stupid, she was smart and got what she wanted. Pretty much end of story.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. Right. That's why she saved that dress, wasn't it?

[indigobusiness]

49. Exactly...She packed her kneepads when she moved to DC...

to do what she did.

She accomplished her own tawdry mission.

The Big Dog was her victim.

[StClone]

26. What was Monica after?

Silly how only her life was affected while the country was dragged through this. As she pursued the President didn't it register in her mind that even if she got to keep Bill she have had a rough time? He was married too!

If she will have us believe she was naive enough to think she'd come through this unsullied any way it went, then she is naive enough to believe only her that was nearly destroyed.

Clinton's horrible loss of control lead him to a near death experience in this ordeal, as has Monica. But to believe she suffered more distorts her part.

[Eloriel]

31. Good point -- narcissism

"It's all about me." Add that to my post #22 above.

[Tellurian]

44. Chelsea is different...

She has been loved and nurtured by two loving parents all her life. Her sense of worth and values are deeply ingrained in every fiber of her being. She is able to hold her own in just about any situation come what may. Barring physical force. The only commonality w/Monica is their age. Monica is and has been a lost soul looking for attention forever. The compassion BC held for the wayward intern most likely emmanated from insecurities he felt within himself. Because of Monica's upbringing, what BC failed to realize is she evolved into a predatory victim and he continued on to become who he is because of the loving, nurturing women surrounding him all his life.

[LittleApple81]

3. She was young, but she started following married men and pestering

them a long time before she went for Clinton. He was ABSOLUTELY WRONG in taking advantage of an "airhead" (pardon the pun) but she wasn't a child. Nobody would like to see his/her daughter behaving like Monica, or her husband/brother/father behaving like Clinton. But IT DOES TAKE 2 TO TANGO and she was an ADULT. If Chelsea does what Monica did, it is not going to be Clinton's fault. It is going to be Chelsea's fault.

[northzax]

4. what Bill Clinton did to her was awful and unforgivable

but she was, after all, an adult at the time, and she holds responsiblity for her actions as well, I believe.

She also bears responsiblity for her actions after the fact, for her use of the media and the incident to advance her career. The blame, I think, falls on everyone involved, BC, ML, the VRWC and the Media.

[lancdem]

5. I'm pretty sure Chelsea wouldn't have an affair with a married man

That's a poor analogy for Monica to make. I kind of feel sorry for her, but I still get the impression she doesn't understand that what they did was wrong.

[Tellurian]

52. STOP the GD PITY PARTY!

and read the rest of my posts...

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qazplm]

8. he was wrong

so was she, she knew he was married, was she really that silly that she thought the president of the US was going to divorce Hillary and run off with her?

She had to know it was a temporary thing. She was an adult and knew what she was getting into, make no mistake Clinton was wrong too!! Very wrong, and it's inexcusable, but she is no victim IMO...just two adults who both made wrong decisions.

[spooky3]

37. I don't think she did know it was temporary. History is full of stories

of married, powerful men falling for much younger women who hold inconsequential jobs and marrying them (look at all the defendants at Enron for a recent example). I think she believed the lies he told her about affection for her, and she certainly had heard all the stories all of us heard in the media about how maybe he had a marriage of convenience, bla bla. I'm sure she was absolutely carried away by the thought of his being president and an attractive man, but there are a LOT of people who would feel the same way in her position. Maybe the parallel for men is whether they might cross the line if they worked near Miss Universe and she seemed interested in them, that her marriage was on the rocks, and they were single. I think a lot of them would go for it.

I'm not saying what she did was right, what they both did was wrong, and I'm glad they've both gotten help. But I think it's wrong for us to judge too harshly, when we were not in that situation ourselves.

[NashVegas]

9. You Should See HBO's "In Black and White"

Monica was fucked, but not by Clinton. By Kenneth Starr, by Linda Tripp and by many other people. Clinton was stupid, but he never ordered her to flash him in the first place.

[Tansy_Gold]

34. If Monica was victimized, it wasn't by an individual

but rather by a culture that conflates love with sex while at the same time demonizing sexuality.

Anyone of the boomer generation -- which includes Bill and Hillary -- will probably get a kick out of and gain some worthwhile insights from Susan J. Douglas's "Where the Girls Are." It describes how the culture of the 60s pushed us -- male and female alike -- in two directions, and how it's a wonder we aren't more fucked up than we already are.

Tansy Gold, book lover

[Tellurian]

47. There you go! Don't forget Bob Dole...he was the key..

good ole amicable Bob Dole, Monica's next door neighbor in the Watergate Apts... everybody's friend. The pimp Viagra salesman.. One thing you have to remember about republicans. They're not like us. Their defenses are ALWAYS UP! Always! Always keeping track, making mental notes of small. (seemingly) insignificant transgressions. Until the day comes when they prepare to blindside you with the ferocity of a demon, unleashing fireball after fireball until you cry uncle or totally destroy you.

[Cheneys_former_heart]

10. She got 150 thousand bucks for her interview

I hardly think Chelsea would brag to her friends that she would go to Washington to get her "Presidential kneepads". Look, Bill apologized to her, she even got to host her own reality show, as well as go to glitzy Hollywood Oscar parties, she got alot out of those blow jobs. If she really wants to move on with her life, she should quit playing victim and do it.

[Toucano]

20. Well put!

And welcome to DU!

[spooky3]

38. Welcome to DU and I LOVE your name!

[Cleita]

12. Monica ruined her own life up to now with her actions.

No one forced her to give Clinton BJ's. And, since she is still a young woman, it's hardly true to say her life is ruined. She can pick herself up by the bootstraps and do something meaningful with her life for a change. She has her health, education and all her faculties to do something useful.

It's not like she's in a wheelchair with missing limbs like many young Iraqi girls are now thanks to Bush, or is rendered damaged goods like those Iraqi teenagers raped by our soldiers. She can still look forward to being married someday and having a family.

[Bandit]

13. She wanted to earn her Presidential knee pads and she did.

Now she wants us to think highly of her? :shrug: Poor little innocent Monica

[anarchy1999]

14. I'm sick of hearing about it. I want no more of this sad, tragic, tawdry

affair. And this comes from a 10 year mistress. Enough is enough and I do believe discretion is the better part of valor sometimes. Flame away.

[Mizmoon]

15. Monica was of legal age

Clinton's affair with her was bad judgement on his part. He knew, as all married men who have affairs do, that there was no future for their relationship and it's not nice to play with people's feelings.

That said, Monica is not a child. She was a young woman, of legal age, who played with fire. She made a decision to have a relationship that came to a terrible end and got her in a lot of trouble. I do feel for her, but she made her choices and life really took a big dump on her. I do think she is way too malaigned and I wish society would give her a freakin break already.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Who cares what either of them say about it?

Both are whining about what was "done" to them. "It's all Bill's fault." by her. It's all the press's fault by him.

The world would be a better place if they'd both shut up.

[lancdem]

18. Clinton's comments are about the VRWC

and need to be said. They run the friggin' country now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Yes. But not by him.

His credibility on the issue was destroyed with his pathetic attempt to cover it up instead of just telling the press to piss up a rope.

I have no sympathy for either of them. They're both making a fortune doing the Oprah confession "poor me" waltz around the networks.

They should both go home and count their money.

[Tellurian]

57. His credibility rules, then and now. And don't you ever forget it..

The only reason the VRW doesn't like BC is because he wouldn't help them with the dark side they proposed for all poor Americans. Incarceration and enslavement. The same plan they have in play now!

His credibility IS where it counts! When he took care of the people of this country. He proved he could provide Peace and Prosperity for the country and he did. He produced.

Americans, true Americans, not republicans, have never calibrated his honesty about some slovenly, tawdry, sex scandal cover up, trying to protect his family. His legacy will always be remembered as the Peace and Prosperity he brought to this country.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Peace and prosperity?

What dreamland do you live in?

Welfare Reform?
NAFTA?
Rwanda? The genocide that he actively blocked the UN from stopping.
Congo? The follow up genocide when he and Madeleine actively supported Kabila.

All part of Bill's "legacy". Don't worry, I won't forget, as you apparantly have.

He was, at best, a charming mediocrity as a president.

[Tellurian]

62. Go Home, rethug...your pants are on fire and you're posting

in the wrong forum..

BTW tell them your hero is Hitler's cousin!

[Ironpost]

17. just an age ole hole looking for a story

[leetrisck]

19. Kenneth Starr did a pretty good number on Chelesa

if you think about it. And the rest of the country for that matter. How would Monica like it if she had a child that behaved the way she did? How did Monica's mother & father feel about what she did? Clinton messed up big time when he did what he did but Monica was an adult - had already destroyed several lives along the way and set out to destroy Clinton's (one way or the other). Does she accept any responsibility? Tripp? Goldberg?, etc.

[Tellurian]

54. She doesn't have to. The VRW are right behind her all the way...

Their quarry isn't Bill this time..

It's HILLARY!

[LTR]

21. She brought it on herself

She knew what she was getting herself into. It wasn't like Bill grabbed her by the ears and... oh, never mind.

If anyone took advantage of her, it was Linda Tripp and Ken Starr.

I don't lash out against ex-girlfriends years later when things go wrong.

She should just move on.

[belladonna]

23. Gee, I wonder what ever happened to Monica?

Oh, that's right... she had this really bad show for awhile, made lots of money from it. Money that she never would have made had it not been for the infamous BJ. Maybe her agent hasn't been picking up the phone lately?

They were both consenting adults. I don't have any sympathy for her whatsoever. If she REALLY thought for a moment that a guy who would have NOTHING but oral sex with her was interested in taking things further, that's for her and her therapist to discuss.

[Vickers]

24. Comparing herself to Chelsea? *snort*

Aw man, that's rich! I can't imagine two young women being more completely different than those two.

[mitchum]

27. Another self-serving whine from the Princess...

she is neither contemptible nor pitiable, but she she just needs to go away and seek that privacy she professes to value so much

[Proud2BAmurkin]

28. I take for granted adult women are adult women. Any arguments?

?

[jukes]

30. Neither was "wrong":

they both did what they did for their own personal reasons, sex was a vehicle, not a motivation.


people do weird shit for very weird reasons. judging either of them is vacuous & silly; i've done weird shit for my own very personal, & equally weird reasons. so have all of us.

kind of fucked, being a primate. we're trapped, by biology, in a hierarchal social system where we pretend to be mutually supportive whilst continually looking for a way to gain an edge.

and sex is used, by both genders, more often for territorial marking or encroachment, than it is for fun.

let's try to be aware, over-ride our biological imperatives, & quit making judgments about things that don't matter.


BTW, does any1 REALLY think those words came from monica's brain? her agent had some1 on his staff ghost that comment.

keep focused!

[havocmom]

33. Is this the same Monica who told a chum she was headed to DC

to get her 'Presidential knee pads on'? My, I am so sorry her little heart got bruised when she went to knock boots in the big time at her tender age.

We are all older and wiser now, Monica. Yours isn't the only life that took a downturn because of the affair. The whole damned world is a bit worse for the wear after the neocon propaganda machine twisted your little stunt, sister. Chew on that a bit, grow up and own your life instead of playing the perennial victim.

We have all done stupid things in our youth but it doesn't have to define us.

[madrchsod]

35. i guess her hand bag business went

down the drain..monica go back to hand jobs ,your 15 minutes of fame was over years ago..

[zbird]

36. In a relationship, each person has his/her own view of things.

Monica may very well believe it was a deep, mutual relationship. Clinton may have even told her so. Who knows? I'm sure many of us who have been in relationships have told the other person what they wanted to hear. On the other hand, many of us have also been told (or heard) what we wanted to hear. I have no idea what the true nature of the relationship was, nor do I care. It is none of my business. It happened, now it is time to move on.

[mzmolly]

39. Grow up Monica, to you it was a *relationship* to Clinton you were sex.

:hi:

Happens all the time. Though by the time most women are 30 they realize that men/woman often view sex very differently.

[onethatcares]

45. 70 million was spent learning about this shit and now she's getting what?

for an interview? Apparently she isn't so ashamed to cash in. nuff said.

[moondust]

41. She invited trouble.

And you never know how much trouble trouble may turn out to be.

[Tellurian]

58. I agree, she doesn't know what use the VRW has in store for her..

I hope someone has the good sense to tune her in.

The VRW are cornered. They will do anything to get what they want!

[Syrinx]

42. she was paid $175,000 for that interview

I don't feel sorry for her. Her presidential knee-pads have been very, very good to her.

[Cheneys_former_heart]

60. and for that kind of money, you don't say "Things are going great!!"

She is paid for, I think Clinton more than paid his debt to her. Where the hell is her responsibility in all this?

[ibegurpard]

43. She certainly has been willing to trade in on her notoriety.

Would she have had that opportunity had her life not been "ruined" by Clinton? That's not to say that I don't think people shouldn't make the best of a bad situation and that Clinton was a pig for thinking he could cheat on his wife with an INTERN that could have been his daughter but PLEASE! The way she has taken advantage of her name being talked about in the past is just an indication to me that she's looking to do it again. How would I expect a person to react if they didn't want their name being dragged through the mud about a situation they WILLINGLY entered into? Laying low, avoiding the press and saying NO COMMENT.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. You're correct, but so what?...

Younger men and women are being killed in Iraq for the choices they made as adults. Some of those people aren't even old enough to vote and/or get a drink at a bar. Should we feel sorry for Monica because of the choices she made as an adult at age 24?

Monica Lewinsky - 23 July 1973. Monica Lewinsky became an intern in roughly 1997 at the age of 23, and met Clinton at age 24.

Chelsea Clinton - 27 February 1980. Chelsea was 12 when Clinton became President in 1992. That made her 18 when the news broke in 1998 about the scandal. She is currently 24.

Maybe your time would be better spent investigating Linda Tripp's background and whether or not she was associated with the Arkansas Project. You do remember Linda Tripp, don't you?

[seabeyond]

53. no feel sorry, being female i can say

at a very young teen, i knew repersuccion of screwing around with a married man. wasnt a hard moral issue, right.............wrong. if i decided to do it my bad. i dont feel sorry for a 24 year old woman that would allow herself to be used by a man, her lesson to learn. silliness saying she is victim. she gets to own her part, clinton gets to own his. both look silly and foolish and less than moral, oh well, why it behoves us to make different type choices.

[KT2000]

56. Monica's mother

I recall reading an article in the New Yorker - way back then. It said that when Monica was having emotiional problems her mother took her to a therapist who had the nickname Dr. Love. She was a radio therapist or something and her schtick was how to keep your man kind of thing.
Monica still thinks it was Ok to show the president of the US her thong and that what would result from that kind of behavior would be true love. She apparently still thinks that any sexual attention from a man mean true love.

Monica is now at the age where she needs to look inward and examine her own behavior. She is still very confused.

[Tellurian]

59. Like I said upthread...forget Monica's Pity Party..

The VRW is setting Monica out to destroy any hope for Hillary to vie for the presidency, no matter what date she selects. Monica is not floundering about aimlessly. Her mission is Hillary. Whether she is aware of it or not.