They called Mrs. Lipscomb ON THE PHONE?

[King Of Paperboys]

If this has been previously posted, I apologize.

Lisa Lipscomb was VERY SPECIFIC in Mr. Moore's film about how she was notified of her son's death in Iraq.

THEY TELEPHONED HER.

They confirmed her identity over the phone, then told her that her son was dead, as she dropped the phone.

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK? It's bad enough the * administration is trying to hide coffins... but to not even give her the DIGNITY of a VISIT from an Army officer and a Chaplain?

WHAT THE FUCK?

[NMDemDist2]

1. i agree, that was one of the few parts of the movie that shocked me

i pretty much knew the rest of the info

[Bluebear]

2. And didn't even ask her if anyone else was there

It's not even about dignity being notified in person, you make a death announcement in person so the shock doesn't cause the grieving parent to do anything rash. Another compassionate conservative act in Bush's America.

[gmoney]

3. Well, see, she's poor...

...or at least working class. I'm sure only Repub party contributor families get a visit from the chaplain and an officer.

Plus, it's such a shlep out to Flint, and so depressing... better to just call her up.

Seriously, knowing this administration's contempt for the troops, I'm sure the personal visits to notify family members was deemed too expensive, and was outsourced to Halliburton, who has PatelCorp make the calls from a Punjab call center.

[Bluebear]

4. They probably thought a Flint soldier was a "brown person"

After all, "some people" don't think brown skins grieve.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I'd Like An Ex Military Person To Answer

I saw the movie...

I thought it was military protecol to tell the next of kin in person...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. DUPE

[KoKo]

7. DU Military told us they always go to the home and make a big deal out

of it...you're kidding! They've changed it? Need some of our DU folks to explain this who served.

[Solly Mack]

9. They don't always go to the home. I'm a military spouse

and would never say otherwise.

They are supposed to go to the homes however....there is a regulation for such things.

When the family doesn't live with the soldier...then the nearest post to the family, or recruting office, or military college is supposed to dispatch a team to break the news.

Sadly, far too often, it just doesn't happen that way.

[KoKo]

33. A phone call because they couldn't track you down? very sad...

given that Shrub has staked his P-Residency on his "Military Intervention" and they can't even get soldiers out to personally deliver that your son or daughter has died?

[Solly Mack]

39. That's what I'm saying. They are supposed to go in person but don't

always. People can file complaints and should

I'm not saying the complaints would do much good though. In our company we've had 1 parent to get "the" phone call and many of us filed complaints to no avail.

One guy was run over by a 2 ton vehicle, flown to Germany and from there to Walter Reed; all within a matter of days..and the army NEVER called his parents. Another military spouse called a few days after the company knew the soldier was at Reed to ask his parents how he was doing..and that was FIRST they had heard their son was near death...and he was near death. In a coma, couldn't breath on his own, chips and tears in his neck ...his legs mangled.

And get this...even after the parents complained about the lack of information of their son...the BN commander still refused to call to offer an apology or anything else. Instead they had the nerve to scold the military spouse for informing the parents.

[Tight_rope]

42. WTF! Why wouldn't a spouse contact their in-laws about their

injured child...WTF is wrong with peopele. I swear, I'm about to loose my mind.

[Solly Mack]

43. It wasn't her in-laws. I never said that...

It was another spouse just calling to check on the condition of a soldier. We have family groups who keep in contact with parents and spouses living away from the post.

The military spouse called the parents of the injured soldier to check up on him and to see how they were holding up.

The army never called the parents....and then were angry with the military spouse who did call.


The term military spouse refers to any spouse...not necessarily the actual wife/husband of a particular soldier.

[Tight_rope]

45. Oh ok...it's still wrong of the military not to inform the family...

Thank God for the person that did contact them. Even tho he was in a coma, at least they could be by his side. Both the parents and the soldier deserve that much.

[Solly Mack]

46. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear on that. You're correct - it IS bad

very bad. My husband served a year in Iraq. The not knowing is the worst.

When my phone would ring during the night I would be paralysed with fear. My heart would just stop. Was this "the" call?" "When I picked up the phone, would death be on the other end?" "Does that phone call contain my future?"

[Mandate My Ass]

8. My heart bled for that woman

When she said her grief made her drop to the floor and nobody was home to pick her up...that was just awful.

Between those smarmy recruiters hunting down poor people to join up and Mrs. Lipscomb's palpable grief and her wrenchingly honest description of her awakening to the truth about gov't/protestors/military, I don't know how she, or any grieving family, holds up in the face of the horror.

[King Of Paperboys]

10. Monica, you just gave me a moment of clarity:

I wish Mr. Moore had juxtaposed those scenes of the recruiters and Mrs. Lipscomb... alternating between their actions and her loss.

That may have been too harsh on Mrs. Lipscomb, though. But it would have been DAMN effective.

[TexasSissy]

11. Yes, I thought they made personal trips to the home.

Guess we're kinda low on military personnel, huh?

[King Of Paperboys]

13. We gots PLENTY of personnel,

We're retaining personnel beyond the terms to which they agreed. That's a DRAFT, folks.

What we're low on is RESPECT for those personnel.

SUPPORT THE TROOPS. BRING THEM HOME.

[luaneryder]

12. As a mother who has received

news of the death of my son over the phone I can attest to the reaction of Lisa Lipscomb. I don't know how I will handle this part of the film when I see it next Friday.

As ex military I was always assured that an officer would go to, in person, my relatives home to inform them of my demise. I would not be at als surprised if that has changed with war on the cheap.

[Bluebear]

14. Luane welcome to DU and I am so sorry about your son

[King Of Paperboys]

15. luane, I am so sorry.

Go with someone you love and trust. It's painful to watch. But it's important.

[nostamj]

16. one, so sorry to hear of your loss

two, no surprise that bushco 'compassion' extends only to military contractors.

[Joy Anne]

21. no more personal visit

I was shocked to learn that in the movie, too. I did know they'd replaced the bugler playing Taps at funerals with a recording, which I thought was disrespectful, but calling someone to tell her that her son has died is beyond belief.

[LifeDuringWartime]

30. actually

there is a bugle used, but a device with a speaker is placed in the bell and the user holds it to his or her lips, pretending that its real. i'm not sure which is worse.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. So sorry to hear of your loss

Welcome to DU.

[Solly Mack]

24. I am so sorry for your loss and the callous way in which you learned of it

Welcome to DU. Our hearts and shoulders are here for you.

[VolcanoJen]

29. oh, luane. So sorry for your loss.

I don't even know what to say.

Welcome to DU, and thank you for sharing.

:hug:

[Timefortruth]

32. I'm so sorry for your loss.

And the memories the movie will recall, go with a good friend.

[merh]

40. Welcome to DU luane. My deepest sympathies on the loss of

your son. How horrible it is that you had to receive that message and to have received it by phone. Bless you. :grouphug:

[Tight_rope]

44. Please accept my deepest sympathy about your loss!...

I haven't been in your shoes, so I'm not going to try to insult your intelligence by telling you that I understand. But I am human and I know that death is a horrible thing and it's especially worse when it's your child.

[alittlelark]

47. I got back from F911 a couple of hours ago

Her reaction was the most poignant and disturbing thing I saw in the film.

I am soooo sorry for your loss

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Liberal Veteran]

17. They used to do it by telegram too.

Before everyone had phones.

[silverpatronus]

23. from what i understand...

military personnel would deliver those telegrams. or am i wrong?

[SoCalDem]

36. Nope.. the telegraph guy on his bicycle would deliver it.

If the next of kin lived on or near a base, they made personal visits..

I remember in one very famous movie, one of the "characters" was the squeaky wheeled bicycle that the western uinion kid rode.. People would cringe and hold their breaths when they heard that bicycle wheel, and not "recover" until the sound of it faded away...meaning that he was not stopping at their house that day..:(

[kskiska]

38. My mother received a telegram

that my father was missing in action in WWII, and again when it was ascertained that he was a POW in Germany.

My aunt was visited by two officers to inform her that her (first) husband was washed off a carrier in the Pacific during battle. One of the officers was my uncle, who later introduced her to his brother. They were married and had 5 more kids (in addition to the 2 she had with her first husband). They're alive and happy.

[theHandpuppet]

18. But of course...

.,.. the military in Flint has plenty of uniforms to drive around the black neighborhoods of the town trying to enlist more bodies for Bush's immoral war. But Lipscomb's beloved son was dead -- no use investing any more time on that family, huh?

So when are the twins signing up for a tour of duty?

[stopbush]

20. Just like the coffins: out of sight, out of mind.

Why have a government vehicle pull up to a home followed by a couple of uniformed guys pounding on a door to announce the horrible news? There might be wailing and gnashing of teeth, fer Chris' sake! Hell, the NEIGHBORS might notice, not to mention people out on the streets or walking their dogs. As long as the pain and suffering isn't VISIBLE, it doesn't exist!! I can pretty much assume that this is all part of the the *don't ask, don't tell* part of bushco's cover-up of military death and suffering.

Funny, but the government had no problem notifying people in person during 'Nam when we were taking casualties of 300+ dead PER WEEK, not to mention WWII where we might lose 10,000 troops in a single day (even if only by telegram...that at least took a little effort and gave the grieving family something physical to contemplate. A phone call?) The difference: the US military PRE-BUSHCO fulfilled their obligation because they knew that they OWED the family the DECENCY and the COURTESY of that personal visit to announce the tremendous sacrifice their sons and daughters had made for their country.

It's becoming painfully obvious that bushco doesn't believe the soldiers sacrificed for their country - they are dead to fill bushco's coffers. Bushco has no more regard for them than they do for the dirt on their $1500 shoes...and, in some cases, they have even LESS regard for our troops than they do for the spit they slather on their combs to fix their hair for the cameras, all so they can understate the number of dead (fucking Wolfowitz!@##$%@!).

bushco is the absolute scum of the earth.

[Ezlivin]

22. They Offshored The Job

What'd you expect?

It's cheaper, after all.

[bossfish]

26. Oh, man...

...what if that voice on the phone had a Bangalore accent!?

[Logansquare]

25. If they can spare recruiters tracking down teens at the mall

they can spare them to announce deaths. I was apalled at how her suffering was made even greater by the way she was informed.

[gardenista]

27. Yeah, but they sure have the resources to send recruiters out 24/7. nt

[Fleshdancer]

28. I was wondering the same thing

I thought family members always recieved a soldier at the door when their loved one died and a phone call for when the loved one is wounded.

I guess I'm sadly SADLY mistaken.

[proud patriot]

31. That's an absolute disgrace

Shameful

[SW FL Dem]

34. If it's true, that really sucks.

Her son gave his life for our country. The least the military can do is provide a personal notification and a chaplain.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

35. Ctbacks, baby, cutbacks

pretty simple

dicks!

[sampsonblk]

37. That's the only time I cried

Having served, dammit I would want my mother to have visitors in full dress uniform. I want a flag. And I want a REAL bugler. Not a recording. That REALLY pissed me off. That is the only reason I advised my own mother not to see the film. That would run her blood pressure sky high.

[Tight_rope]

41. I saw the movie again tonight for the 2nd time...and I was appalled the

first I heard her tell how she received a call from the US military that he son was died. Since when has the US been so cheap and lost all sense of humanity that we can no longer show the families of died soldiers, soldiers who died in a line of duty, protecting the US, respect by informing them in person that their loved one is died. "HOW DARE BUSH DO THIS TO US...HOW DARE HE CONTINUALLY DISGRACE US".

[opihimoimoi]

48. My wife and our 2 friends from San Francisco cried for that poor

mother who only moments ago in the film was touting the Military, was informed of her sons death by PHONE and is now devastated in being convinced this Iraq shit was not a g9ood thing.


>>>>> SHIT <<<<<< !!!!!!

One of our friends that went to the movie tonight....... WAS a Pub.
She has seen the light.... no more, changed her mind.... will not support Bush.

I wonder how many Pubs out of a 100 change their minds. I venture to guess at 60%.

Great flick....