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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:14 PM
Original message
135,000 American Casualties in Iraq
I saw Michael Moore's stunningly powerful film last night. As a Vietnam vet I expected to be moved, to experience grief. I had not expected to come out enraged because I have worked hard since 2000 to inform myself of the truth about the Bush reign of terror. But enraged I was and am.

I didn't sleep last night because I knew what sort of dreams would come. So I have posted here on a few threads, as a way of working through some of my emotions. I was a bit hesitant because I am tired of being told by so many around me that I am over reacting and shouldn't let myself get so emotionally involved. The responses I received from DU members to those posts have been heartening, healing and deeply appreciated. Most of them contained encouragement to continue to speak my truth. I've not started many threads here, but in light of that encouragement, I have decided to share this with all my heart brothers and sisters here.

As I have said in other posts, the most moving moment in the film for me was the young American soldier looking into the camera with that all too familiar thousand yard stare and saying: "You can't kill someone without killing a part of your own soul."

I don't mean to belittle the agony of those wounded and the devastation of the families of those who have died. My heart aches for each of them. But I also believe, from my experience, that the fact that our troops were sent into a war being waged on a basis of lies, will result in 135,000 casualties because of the trauma they will each bring back with them when they are finally returned home.

My physical wounds healed relatively quickly after my return. But thirty plus years later, the emotional scars are still raw. With the love, understanding, and support of my incredible wife, a lot of talented and compassionate counselors and healers, and a lot of hard and painful self examination, I have managed not to become part of the most shameful and under reported statistic from the Vietnam war: more Vietnam vets dead of suicide than died on the battlefields during the war.

I don't know much about poetry, but writing the piece below was an important part of my healing. Given your encouragement and support to continue to speak out I felt it appropriate to share it with you. Please feel free to do with it as you wish. And thank you all again.

And to Michael Moore: Thank you, sir, for having the courage to literally put your life on the line to give voice to very important and unpopular truths at a critical time in our nation's history.

Lunch

He came to lunch with me today,
the Vietnamese boy,
sat at the table on my left,
as he always does,
and my hand trembled
as I tried to eat.

I've never known his name.
Odd, because
he's been around so long--
twenty-four years
on the edges of my dreams,
twenty-four years
a silent presence
haunting the sleepless
early-morning hours
that sometimes snatch me still
too-easily alarmed
from sleep--

Fourteen years, maybe fifteen,
(hard to tell with all the blood),
beatified with fierce pride
of new manhood,
childhood innocence
burnished by war
to a hard
metallic sheen.
I've come to love him,
this boy so like myself,
but still
my hand trembled
as I raised my cup to drink--

He didn't eat,
(he never does)
Just watched me
(as he always does)
never speaking,
watched me
silent through his pain--

Silent since that dark
and early-morning hour
twenty-four years ago,
jungle-dark and early-morning hour
when he cried out in warning to his brothers
as we lay tense and trembling,
he and I,
trapped in bloody embrace
in the fear-kissed dark
of the killing field,
cries out again
in warning
and in pain
as I put one hand over
the hole in his gut
to stop the blood,
one over his mouth
to stop the cries--

He writhes,
twisting from my touch,
thrashes in shadow
as I reach again
to silence his cries,
our tortured dance
masking sounds
of his brothers'
advance,
painting us as targets
in the dark--

And the
hiss-whispered order
flung with desperate urgency
from the darkness
on my right:
"Cut that slope’s throat!
Now!"

Shadow-fractured moonlight flows
the cutting edge of knife I draw
with bloody hand.
“Please,” I whisper, “Don't”
lift my hand (“Please!”)
from his lips
(“Please don’t!”) cries
erupt anew
and I raise the blade
and choose --

He's never cried out since,
nor laughed,
this beautiful manchild warrior.
He simply watches me,
like at lunch,
trying to talk, to chew,
to swallow.
No longer seeking escape.
Trying only
to control the trembling--

He came to lunch with me today,
and I don't mind so much any more.
Still,
I wish I knew his name
so I could set him free--

You see
you cannot kill someone
without becoming jailer
to their soul--

Gordon25
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you Gordon
Thank you for serving and thank you for posting. You know intimately what the returning soldiers will be facing inside themselves. I am so glad you were able to find healing.
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow!
You are absolutely incredible. As a fellow American, I apologize for your pain and salute your wisdom. May your journey for peace be filled with the support of friends, family and countrymen. And may we all keep this in mind when our "wounded" come home. And, especially, may we soon start to learn from our history and our mistakes.
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Ironpost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Please
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Wow is right. I'm speechless.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow .excellent post.
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AbbeyRoad Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's a beautiful poem, Gordon25
Thank you for sharing your unique insight.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. I hope you are heading up a chapter of Veterans for Peace, wherever you
are located. :^)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can't stop crying ... thank you for your post and for sharing the
truths of the horrors of war. I pray for you and the others who have been and will be tortured for years, tortured with the memories of death. God forgive us. God thank you for Gordon25 and the thousands who fought along side of him and the 135,000 fighting today.

Forgive us Gordon25 for turning away from the truth so long ago, please continue to help us bring the truth to light today. Continue your posts, give a purpose to your pain, yours is the voice that must be heard.

May God continue to bless you and ease your pain.
:grouphug:
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've never read anything quite like that.
wow.

just wow.
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Stone_Spirits Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. thank you
you speak the truth my friend. It will take generations of healing not only here but in Iraq and the ME. What will the lives of the children who witness the horrors be like?
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you for a
moving and meanigful post. I am glad you have found some peace and are willing to speak out to help us understand what our troops will be going through as they return.

You're poem is haunting and beautiful. Thank you for sharing it with us.:hug:
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truthseeker1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. The dam just burst.
Thank you Gordon. Thank you so much for sharing your poem and your thoughts. The dam of tears that I fought back during yesterday's screening of F911 just broke free and I just let it go. How could I not? Your poem is so moving. I am so sorry and so sad that our country is making such tragic mistakes - and for what? And for what?? It's just so disgusting. Your subject line is so right on.

I wish you continued healing and peace.

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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Wow, Gordon.
That is a beautiful and extremely moving poem. I think you must be quite a Hell of a man to have put your feelings in a poem like that. I'm very proud of you, as I am proud of all our service men and women. God Bless you; you've been to Hell and back, but came out at the end a very special person.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
53. Well said.
When will we ever learn?
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very powerful
very moving. I hope you are sharing your thoughts and writing more widely.

In the first days of this war there was a story in our local press about a soldier in Iraq shooting a boy - I think the age they estimated was about ten - because he ran into the street to pick up the weapon of a dead Iraqi. The US soldier did yell out to him to stop, but when the boy didn't, he killed him.

I read it shaking with horror, and have never forgotten it. When I was younger, I would have hated that soldier (the young being fierce and pure - which is part of what makes them such good killers). But now my horror was not only for the dead boy but for his killer. I wondered if that soldier has a son, or if not, if he will someday, and what will go through his mind when that son is ten or so?

The story said something about the soldier's thoughts that allowing the weapon to be taken could result in its' being used on US troops. But shortly therafter there was a lot of looting of weapons...and not so long after military weapons were available - if I remember the $ amount in the story I read about it - for about $15.00 on the black market in Iraq. Many, many of them. So that's what that boy's life ended up being worth...nothing, or maybe $15.00. I think it highly probable that that soldier knew this before he left Iraq.

I don't know how the debt we owe - to those of our citizens who fought and to the Iraqi's who've died as a direct result of our actions - will ever be paid.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you. Welcome to DU. I hope everyone keeps this kicked
so more people can read it.

Gordon25,

I'm a military spouse and from the bottom of my heart, Thank you.
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. Your words touch my heart...
...and I applaud your courage. Few people ever recognize the heroism of the wives, not just while their husbands are away, but even more so after they come home. You are so important.

Gordon25
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. talented poet you are
very well done
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Keep this on the boards as long as possible.
Kick.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oh my God, Gordon - that was amazing
Bless you for sharing that!
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. Incredibly moving
and beautifully expressed. Gordon, I only pray that you can come to a place of healing within yourself. It breaks my heart to think of all the suffering our vets do, both on and off the battlefield.

After going through such trauma, enduring such pain, we will now have a new generation of soldiers who will suffer much the same as your generation have done. I wish them, and you, love and peace and healing.

Thank you so much for sharing your incredible poem with us.
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m-jean03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you for sharing this, Gordon25

Thank you for your thoughts and this poem, and for your service to the country.

This is the most touching and heartbreaking poem I have read in a long time.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. Welcom Home Gordon
My VN vet is wanting to see it too but he is already so mad at Bush..I know the nights are endless for you guys and its tough. Welcome Home again..
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Thanks, and...
...your husband is lucky to have you. I know what it means. Please let him know he is not alone. We have to care for each other. If he ever wants anyone to talk to or exchange email with, please let me know.

Gordon25
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks, Gordon!
I am 49, the draft was still in effect but they cut back. I was lucky my number was low. I would have gone, I think I would have been agood soldier... after reading your post, I appreciate just how damn lucky I really was, that is the aspect I feel closest to heart that would have crumbled my existance.

Thank you for your service and your sacrifice. I know you were doing what you had to, I only wish there would have been a good goddamn reason for it. NOT to denigrate what you or your buddies went thru, but, there it is.......

gotta go, have tix to the 7:45 show here in chi......thx again!
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Incredible
Just incredible

thank you for the beautiful heartbreaking poem
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. More than my thanks, my apology
I thank you for the service that you did when you were called. More importantly I'm sorry for the life-sentence that we gave you---all of us---when you generously answered that call.

I hope that you continue to move closer to a healing peace within yourself---it sounds as if you have learned to find supportive people both personally and professionally to assist you. We are very glad that you have included those of us at DU in that privileged group.

Keep posting.
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. To each and every one of you...
...my deepest and most heartfelt thanks for your caring and compassionate responses. They have had me in tears (the good kind) several times today and I will take your thoughts and prayers with me into sleep tonight and I know they will gently guide my dreams.

You have truly made me feel welcome and welcomed home.

Gordon25
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Thank God for DU, eh?
And Skinner, et al.

We are here for you Gordon. Anytime you need us, just send your message. You, and all the others who need someone to hear ya out. Ya'll have so much to say and we all need so much to hear it.

Bless you and your most excellent wife. I pray that one day the boy can finally be free....
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. that took a lot of strength to share
I've never been in war, I can't imagine what kind of dreams haunts a soldier at night. My grandfathers pretended not to remember, my father refused to talk about it and my brother changes the subject to something more lighthearted when I try to bring it up. As a person born into a military family, your post helps me understand what my loved ones have gone through and the lasting effects of their war experiences. Every opportunity to understand what soldiers go through helps me on a very personal level.

Gordon, thank you for everything you did for this country. I wish I had the power to take away your emotional scars. I understand they will never go away, but I hope expressing yourself here helps you get as much weight off your chest as possible. I'm blown away by your courage and strength.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. .....


:kick:
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. Powerfully moving
I am so, so sorry.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. wow - wow
I don't know what to say. That was one of the most moving and powerful posts I've ever read on DU and that poem left me stunned and shaking and really on the verge of tears. Would you mind if I shared it with some friends? It's really outstanding.
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Please do...
...share it with whomever you like. If it has any power that power resides in the hearts of people like you who read it and understand. So spread it as far and wide as you wish. We'll need as many people to understand as possibe if we are to spare the returning vets the isolation of thinking no one cares or understands which made coming back so hard during the Vietnam war.

And thank you for you kind words.

Gordon25
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Gordon it seems to me that Viet Nam vets have a roll
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 09:50 PM by Cheswick
in helping the guys who will come home from this war in Iraq. The rest of us really can not understand. But the part you mentioned where the young man says you can't kill someone without loosing a piece of your soul. That was the saddest part to me.
I know a young man who is over in Iraq. He and his father were supposed to go together as part of a National Guard unit. The father is in his fifties for goodness sake. But right before the were to leave the doctor found a skin cancer on Brian and so his son went without him.
I worry about what happens to this nice small town republican man when he comes home after witnessing the mess in Iraq. I wonder what happens when he comes home.
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chelaque liberal Donating Member (981 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. Of all of the hundreds of reason war is wrong
you have eloquently voiced the most important. I was extremely moved by Tim O'Brien's book, The Things They Carried. Your poem touched my soul.

Peace.
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mrsteve Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. So many thoughts and feelings, and yet so little can come out...
After seeing F911 today, and managing to keep somewhat emotionally intact, I'm afraid your poem knocked me down.

I haven't felt like this since I saw the Vietnam War Memorial in DC.

God speed Gordon, and thank God for all who helped you escape the hell that far too many people who are waging Bush's little war will have to face some day.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. Peace, Gordon
and thank you for this insight. I wish I knew who, or what, I could be angry at for putting you and others like you in that mess. And now, we are at it again. Chickenhawks don't have a clue what they started this time around and the majority of the country just saw red red red white and blue.
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Geo55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thankyou
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 11:14 PM by Geo55
for enduring.....for telling the world of the madnees which you refuse to let destroy you....there are no words....
Hold to your loving wife and those that love you...
there is no other sanctuary
Peace
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mrsteve Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
39. Gotta keep this one kicked
:kick:
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. Danm!
n/t
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
41. amazing piece.

Thank you immensely for sharing it.


MDN

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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thank you so much Gordon. That is a beautiful piece. Thank you.
I hope you are a member of some Vet organization, I'm sure you are. That is one powerful essay and poem, may I have permission to share?
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Please do
Please feel free to share as widely as you wish. I have no interest in protecting any sort of literary rights to the post or poem. Since whatever power it may have resides in the hearts of those who read it and are touched, I much prefer it to fly free in the public domain. So thank you for the courtesy of asking and please spread it as much as you like.

I am so thankful for everyone's caring responses to my post. It is Sunday morning now, and I'm happy to report that due in large measure to all your support, acceptance and prayers I enjoyed a full night of restful and dream free sleep.

Again, a heartfelt thanks for your kind words and understanding.

Gordon25
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
43. Gordon25
Your poem is so beautiful and haunting. I would love to purchase a signed copy to frame.

I don't have enough posts to email you, but if you are interested please send an email to me via my NightOwwl screen name and we can discuss in more detail.

Thank you.



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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
45. Sunday morning kick, a MUST read!...n/t
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. I want to give tribute to what it took for this man to write this
Vietnam veterans...Combat vietnam vets walk a tightrope most of the time. Their senses have become heightned over this war in Iraq because they share the pain of fighting to stay alive and not really knowing why they are fighting and killing. Gordon has given all here a glimpse into the mind and heart of their blender type emotions.
See, the Vietnam vet bought the war and stood proud to wear the uniform when they were just kids. Young kids. 18 or 19 years of age with no real past and thanks to a useless war, a troubled future.
They came home tired, confused, shattered, distant, trying ot make sense of that uniform and M-16 and the biggest thing...survival.

Gordon talks about the visitor who eats lunch with him. Everyday. This same visitor is there everytime he starts to feel safe when someone drops a plate or a small child's firecracker goes off, he turns looking for that companion. The visitor keeps him on guard.
He was taught that this was person that would kill him at any time and to be ready for such a moment. What Gordon knows now is that dormant rage that was instilled in him was a survival tool but no one ever took that tool away. It still lies there deep within him no matter what he is doing. A perfectly good day can be ruined from just one brief smell of something that throws him back in the jungle to days of horror. 110,000 Vietnam vets have died by their own hand.
40 percent of homeless people are VN vets. The alcohol and abuse for veterans is higher than any group of people.

Gordon knows the soldiers coming home from this other nightmare will face the same visits, the same demons and this time thanks to this Chickenhawk administration will not get the care they need. The funds have been cut. Not only is there not enough alloted for the Vietnam veterans who are experiencing full blown PTSD at this time and some brought on even more by the Iraq War but there will be nothing left for the soldier in the field from today who is just following orders and had their future altered forever. There is a difference from the warrior and the war. The people who make war are not the same people who fight the war. When John Kerry came home and protested the war, he did what so man soldiers did, he threw away his medals. He looked to find some way to be proud of his service and yet he still has a problem with the things he had to do. When he voted for the resolution, be ever so sure, he fell for the trap many fell for that we were in imminent danger. But the liar was those in power. The same kind of liars that were present when he went to Vietnam. These guys never stop being good soldiers. Gordon, my husband, John Kerry, and thousands of veterans across this land because it is part of who they are. They hate war. They hate the thought of destruction and yet John Kerry now has been put in a spot to try and clean up what again he has been lied to about.
There is no glory in war, and sometimes necessary but there is always visits from the past to remind the young warrior of his days in uniform. Most veterans never let you se what Gordon has shown you. The young people will never learn this from a history book.
Gordon....we support your quest for peace. We support your familes.
Those of us here who are patriotic , the real patriots not just see a flag but see the soldier who has been used and abused in the name of patriotism. You are honored kind Sir.

For those who care to help when our chickenhawk governemnt won't..please visit my site.

http://groups.msn.com/UnitedVeteransofAmerica/whatnew





Amanda (vetwife) Kato and Max Cleland talking about the needs of veterans

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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Kick
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Kick...For those who borne th Battle
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. If you have family or friends in Iraq...
...or Afghanistan, or if you simply care about veterans and about what this administration is doing to shortchange them, please visit the website Vetwife mentions at the end of the post above. This is an incredibly caring and capable woman who is doing her best with a circle of friends to get the word out and help those who have been swept under the rug by the current regime in Washington.

You CAN help other vets, as you have helped me, if you choose to do so. Contribute if you can. Read the data on the site. Distribute it widely. The American corporate-controlled press will not do so.

And please, keep this in mind about John Kerry: he served two tours in Vietnam and served both heroically and with distinction, yet came home and devoted the next several years of his life to ending that illegal and unjust war. For me, having been there, these actions demonstrated a core of ethical integrity which I do not believe he has ever abandoned. Effective politics demand compromise. No one is perfect, but I believe he can be trusted to do his best to get our sons and daughters out of harm's way as quickly as possible, and more importantly, to make sure they have the care and services they need when they return to cope with the effects of their service and spare the families the agony of helplessly watching them destroy themselves out of unresolved emotional trauma.

Thank you Vetwife. You are a true American patriot and deserve our support.

Gordon25
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
46. Wow
Very powerful, thank you for posting.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
47. thank you Gordon25
I wish you and the Iraq vets and their families time and peace to heal.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
49. Very powerful imagery in your poem. Thank you.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. Sleep well, brother
Your gift of empathy is a blessing and a curse, isn't it? My loved ones who fought resisted self examination, drank and died. If I had been old enough to understand, I don't know if I would have. Reading your thoughts would help, I think.

Who said 'when you need a teacher, one will show up'?

I haven't had the honor yet: Welcome home.



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mrsteve Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick again for the Sunday afternoon crowd
:kick:
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
55. Thank you Gordon25
I'm bookmarking this thread!
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Thanks Gordon I am humbled.
Edited on Sun Jun-27-04 04:14 PM by vetwife
Today I took twenty dollars out of my personal bank account and bought a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk,several packs of ensure,
sandwich meat. and some colas and carried it to an old Dear veteran sitting on his porch waiting patiently for a little 36.00 retirement check he gets monthly to be there, as he didn't get to the mailbox yesterday. This old fellow cried. I handed him the small sack and he said, "I'll get this back to you" ...I said NO...This is from the people who are patriotic and come from DU. He didn't know what DU was but said he was voting against Bush. He said, That man is killing me. I said, I can't discuss politics doing things with this organization but I feel where you are coming from personally. I Missed church. I went to the food mission..They were not open. They were holding church services. Hmmmmmmmmm. I don't think I missed church. Not when I try to do this day in and day out in a small rural area. I promised the Old soldier who only had noodles (Ramon) that I would be back. He said Thank You. Now I say to Gordon and all of you
We do......They talk...and that is the difference between patriotism talk and appreciation and patriotism in action.

http://groups.msn.com/UnitedVeteransofAmerica/whatsnew
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Kick for a veteran !
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. You ROCK Vetwife!
I lived in France for 20 years. When I came back and saw the poverty in this so-called richest Nation in the world I was dumbfounded.
And VN Vets have been gravely mistreated, I protested against the war but never the troops.
I'm a recovering Catholic who believes you need good works (or true charity), otherwise you are a tinkling cymbal (about the only thing St Paul got right).
Good on you Vetwife!
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. It is you and you and these fine folks who Rock but thanks, I am
just a tool. I do the leg work and you all are doing the Heart work ! You all are too kind....Where are our compassionate conservative? They are Here..You won't find them or many out there on the other side. I guarantee it !
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
59. Goodness
I mean that in both senses: the "wow" sense, and the literal goodness that shines through from your words.

What an incredible piece. I'll be sending it to some friends, along with your reminder of the real number of casualties...
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
60. Powerful stuff Gordon25 - thanks.
I lost a cousin in Vietnam - 5 days after he arrived he was ambushed and they blew his back out. I have a nephew in Baghdad - extended tour 4 more months. I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 today and I'll see it again and ask everyone I know to go see this film.

Warmongers are despicable human beings . . .


A Pathetic Excuse for a pResident
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
63. Please sleep well tonight
I will be thinking of you. Thank you for your service. Thank you for sharing what this service did to you. Rest well. You have earned it.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. Sleep soundly, Gordon. You're among friends now.
:grouphug:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
65. This is powerful
An incredible poem. I grieve for the pain you have gone through. I spent my time in the Vietnam years marching against the war. I have friends who died there. I have a business partner who is dead inside from Vietnam. He is the walking dead. He can't bring himself to talk or deal with it because it is just too horrible. I applaud your courage for dealing with this, because I know it must be beyond impossibly difficult to do.

I curse George Bush* for IraqNam and your title is so true. 135,000 casualties indeed, not counting the Iraqi population which has been terrorized by the invasion, occupation and humiliation.

Sometimes I grieve for my country, that it is so deluded, infantile and "proud" that it strikes back at anything to avenge a wrong inflicted on it. This country has become like a 13 year old crack head, denied its fix, on a senseless rampage, all trumped up excuses falling before they are uttered.

Thank you for opening up your soul. Many tens of thousands of soldiers will need healing and guidance for years to come and I hope they can see your poetry. Just to let them know they are not alone is a beginning.



Peace.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
66. Oh, Gordon
Bless you, bless you, bless you. You are such a beautiful man.

I'm almost hesitant to bring it up, but in case you or others would be interested, here's a Vietnam nurse's poetry --

http://www.illyria.com/dustyhp.html


And thank you for remembering that the Vietnam war wives suffered some too. Very sweet of you.

There were SO many reasons not to have this war, but near the top of my list (of about 20 or so reasons, and probably right behind "it's a soveriegn NATION fer chrissake" and "they don't even have any WMD" and depleted uranium) was that we shouldn't do this to our children -- again. It infuriates me that we didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam after all. I thought to myself re Vietnam that AT LEAST we learned some valuable lessons, like about what NOT to do. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Heartbreakingly wrong.

Thank you for sharing so much of your soul, Gordon. I salute you and your resplendent humanity.

:loveya:
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Thanks for the link, Eloriel
I really think sometimes that the nurses in Vietnam had the worst experiences. They saw, felt, and smelled the carnage twenty-four seven, knew how senseless it was, had no channels to vent the rage, and have for the most part been ignored since the war ended.

God, what a waste it all was and is.

Gordon25
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
67. Thanks for sharing your soul!
I am sorry for the pain you have endured all these years like many others I have come to know over my lifetime. We honor you! I am so glad you posted this, we must always remember the impact on those who serve. People like you give us the hope, faith and determination to fight until the bitter end to take back our country. I believe Senator Kerry's experience will change policy.


On a personal note, I have a dear friend who served in Vietnam but has not yet conquered his demons. He just couldn't handle being there and ended up a heroin addict. He beat the addiction before coming home but he can't talk about what happened 30+ years later. He only says he did things nobody should ever be forced to do. He is one of the kindest men I have ever known.

Again, I thank you and hope you will continue to heal.

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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
69. I have just reread this for the umteenth time...
And I am once again in tears. I have already thanked you for the post but I think I neglected to thank you for your service. Such a HUGE chunk of so many psyches, gone, for no good reason....

Who's to say who the winner is, in the end run.... No offense to your personally, Gordon, nothing but adoration and compassion from me, but who has paid the higher price?

If the tales we were all told in sunday school have any justice at all, the fucking bloody murderous policy makers will meet their fate eventually. I only wish the chickenkawks had an inkling.....

I have sent this out in a mass email......
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. When one veteran loses one night sleep nd does mostevery night almost.we
all suffer because they went where angels feared to tread and now
they are stuck in the middle with NOW.
Thanks again Gordon for your kind words.
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
70. A reminder for peace
:grouphug:
:kick:
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Kick
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
73. Gordon, I was one of many moved to tears by your poem.
Thank you once again.

I am thankful that you've granted permission to share because I have a list of people that I want to send this to.

Keep the thoughts coming.

:hug:
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Only the Left care about Vets !
True..This small organization is helping 2 WWII vets and a couple of VN vets
as posted above and not one Right winged bunch of chickenhawk compasssionate conservates have given a dime. This unpatriotic bunch though has given 10 or 15 till we got up a small moving van today. Now If we can get a little more for the other three we will be making some difference in a veterans life. Since 100 percent goes to their needs and not Bingo or Dances but things like food , gas and shelter.

I tell you I can't take much more compassionate conservatism !
Thanks Gordon for encouraging folks to visit United Veterans.

http://groups.msn.com/UnitedVeteransofAmerica/whatsnew



Maybe I should put on the R-Wing sites..Watch this drive...You think they would respond !
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I like that! "Watch this drive"
:hi: My dad is a Vietnam vet but doesn't own a PC or I'd point him in the direction of the site. ;)
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Gordon25 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. A chance to help
I want to give this a kick to generate some more support for Vetwife in what she is doing. Please visit the website she lists above. Contribute if you can. If you can't, at least spread the data she has assembled via email lists. This can literally make the difference between life and death for some vets. And keep the data handy. We already have vets coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan who need help. Remember after the first return of some of our units from Afghanistan to Fort Bragg? Within weeks there were multiple suicides and sposual killings.

WE CAN NOT LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN.

Please support her. Without people like Vetwife, I could never have made this post.

Thank you all so much.

Gordon25
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'm glad this was kicked back up
although it really choked me up. Unfortunately, I know you are correct, none of these soldiers are going to come back the same, and I absolutely believe the whole point of war is for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to steal a man's soul. The dark cabal has known this since time immortal and still uses it to this day, all under the cloak of "patriotism". Of course there is the money angle, to steal from another and make tons of it, but that's too simple really. Pathetic, and it will keep happening until more people finally wake up. You have become a bright light for the world out of the shadow of darkness and for that - your soul will no doubt be restored fully.

God Bless You and Keep You and Yours in Peace. Thank you for the beauty you have created out of pain.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Kick for a veteran
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
79. powerful
thanks for sharing.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
80. Anyone with a soul would have to be touched by your poem.
:cry:

People like you are why people like me just,...can NEVER give up.

Thank you for sharing such a personal part of yourself.

Thank you.
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