Looking for a real good US History book...

[CanuckAmok]

"Schoolhouse Rock" just isn't cutting it for me anymore.

I'm looking for a decent accuount of US History which includes things like the WPA, Eugene Debs, the Nation of Islam, the labour massacres, the Five Points attack, the war on the indiginous population...

I'm not looking for an excuse to go "America bashing", I'm looking for some non-sugar-coated truth...

Anyone have any suggestions? I'd prefer a physical book to a site/URL.

[mhr]

1. Howard Zinn

The Peoples History of the United States

[bicentennial_baby]

2. People's History of The United States

by Howard Zinn

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060528370/qid=1061088191/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-1476827-6384008?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Davis_X_Machina]

3. Howard Zinn's your man.

People's History of the United States is the book.

[NWHarkness]

4. Howard Zinn

The People's History of The United States.

I think it is exactly what you are looking for.

[CanuckAmok]

8. Ah, I've heard him speak, didn't know he'd written one, but...

..he's certainly the kind of guy who's account I want to read.

Gore Vital is too, I dunno, not my thing,

and Kurt Vonnegut should write one, but won't.

Thanks for the tip--consider it ordered!

[NWHarkness]

5. Now, that seems to be a consensus!

.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. LOL

Great minds think alike! :hi:

[sujan]

6. Howard Zinn's People History of the US

It will appeal to your humanity.

[Julien Sorel]

9. Zinn's book is a polemic, not true history. You also said you didn't

want anti-Americanism, which would exclude Zinn.

There is no one book that will do what you ask that I'm aware of, and besides, any one book is going to expose you to only one point of view -- witness the people who are eager to recommend Zinn. If I were you, I'd start by reading a college-level intro to American history book, and then narrow things down based on what interests you. Broad ranging textbooks tend to be horrible in a lot of ways, but they do generally get the outline right (Zinn is an egregious exception to this; he doesn't even try to get the broad outline right), and then you can fill in the details with your own research.

[Clete]

11. Oh blork.

All my college history books were very biased toward conservatism. They edited and censored out the scandals and so reeked of phony patriotism that they could have been written by the RNC and I wonder if they weren't.

[sujan]

12. It is 'true' history

It just depends on which side you want to hear from.

[Julien Sorel]

17. Of course it is.

Without bothering to point out the many pieces of 'true history' that Zinn gets absolutely wrong -- we're talking about facts here, not interpretation -- I will simply point out that Zinn himself describes his work as being less than truthful, in intent as well as in fact. If you want a left-wing polemic, read Zinn; if you want real history, you have to do it yourself. Scary words, I know, but true.

[MiltonLeBerle]

23. Since Zinn seems to get so much wrong, in your view-

maybe you could enlighten us with a couple of examples?

[sujan]

27. put up or shut up

Give me an example. Since you're the big facts guy.

[Julien Sorel]

44. My my my, so touchy...

Here's Zinn on Zinn:

I wanted my writing of history and my teaching of history to be a part of social struggle. I wanted to be a part of history and not just a recorder and teacher of history. So that kind of attitude towards history, history itself as a political act, has always informed my writing and my teaching.

He also said something to the effect that objectivity is neither necessary, desireable, nor possible in scholarship. While I agree with him to a certain extent here, the way he goes about it, at times to not even try, is dangerous and ultimately obscures more history than it uncovers.

He's a marxist, and he makes no attempt at disguising that fact, or compensating for it when he constructs his narratives. As a result, he twists some things, and leaves some others out. He describes, for example, South Korea as a 'dictatorship,' without later pointing out that South Korea quickly progressed to become one of the more thriving democracies in Asia. It's classic Zinn -- tell a small piece of the story, imply more than is there, and allow one's reader's to draw an incorrect conclusion that does, however, support Zinn's marxist view of history. If you're into that sort of thing, which you apparently are, you'll lap that stuff up as the naked truth; if you approach history with higher standards you start wondering why Zinn bothered to write a book which commits the exact same types of 'oversights' as the established history he attacks.

Replacing brainwash A with brainwash B still leaves people brainwashed.

[TheBigGuy]

30. Zinn on WWI....good example of why I question his history.

I was really suprised at Zinns treatmen of WWI. He completely ignored the anti-German hysteria that gripped the US after entry into the war, and the repression and discrimination that accompanied this.

Which is really suprising given that he did address other examples of discrimination against immigrants in his book.

The odd thing is that this anti-German outburst was taught in more mainstream history books and in conservative academic environments...I learned about it in high school. ..so it was a real suprise that Zinn omitted it.

[MiltonLeBerle]

22. Zinn fills in the holes that most textbooks just gloss over.

there's nothing "not true" (unless you could point something out that is???) about Zinn's books, and unfortunately, the truth hurts sometimes.

[TheBigGuy]

29. Thanks, Im glad im not the only....

...who questions a recommendation of Zinn as a primary source on US history. As I've said he is a good supplemental source for a sort of populist/socialist perspective, but hes pretty useless for a survey/outline introduction to US history.

[aquart]

10. Just one book? Just one opinion?

How far back are you looking to go? Eric Foner's Reconstruction has so much that's otherwise lost. Get thee to a bookstore and browse, for god's sake!

One book, indeed.

[CanuckAmok]

13. Hammock reading,

, that's all. I think I need to deprogram a bit, not having a "fair and balanced" exposure to US History in high school (I'm in Canada). Some of my military history classes in University dug a little deeper, but I'm particularly interested in the Labour movement in post-industrial-revolution US History. For some reason, nobody wants to talk about that (must be the texts published by the Hearst Group!)

[Clete]

15. Then Zinn's book is the one you want.

I am reading it now. It's very informative and easy reading without being a dry, boring tome.

[ScotTissue]

14. I must be missing something.

You want a non-polemical American history book that treats the Nation of Islam as important?

??

[CanuckAmok]

16. Not necessariy "important", but

at least mentioned.

If you have another read to suggest, I'm all ears, er...eyes.

[pansypoo53219]

18. something everybody should read

as brokaw's best generation sucked-Studs Terkel's -The Good War is just an exellent look at WW2.
and one of my favorite's is The making of the Prefident 1789.
no over all complete history books that i know of.

[dweller]

20. 'Working'

still Stud's best work.
my copy was lent away, i need to replace it and pass it along again.

dp

[dweller]

19. Go to the websites of Universities

you respect, or disrespect. Check out the intro history courses, some mid and upper level courses.
check out the required text, and cross-reference them. Granted this may take a while to compile, but you'd get a fairly good representation of what's being presented in general college and advanced courses these days.
Most of the information is open to public viewing, you may could even audit a course for free, and discuss, debate the subjects.
Local college here, UNC-Ch, has Steve Babson. The Unfinished Struggle: Turning Points in American Labor, 1877-Present as a text for intro level course. I have no idea on its merit as an accurate account, but you'd at least have someone to discuss it with and open the dialogue.

just a thought, and good luck.
dp

[TennesseeWalker]

21. Suggestion.

Read at least these three books:

A college level US History book

Read Zinn (might as well, but read it after the basics of history)

Read "A History of the American People" by Johnson (an outsiders view)

And read them all very critically. In fact, try to argue the opposite point of view in your mind when you're reading the books. Books and movies are actually programming your mind, much in the way that you load software into your computer.

If you get both sides and an outsiders view every time, you will generally arrive at the proper path for the continuation of any particular society.

That way you can be fair and balanced for REAL.

[punpirate]

24. I would recommend Zinn's book, also, but as context...

... to what is written elsewhere. There are other excellent books which give a sense of why things happened in the U.S. as they did:

Garry Wills' _Reagan's America_

Kevin Phillips' _Wealth and Democracy_

I rather like another Studs Terkel book, _Working_

All of those will give a sense of what has shaped American opinion over the years.

Cheers.

[MiltonLeBerle]

25. Wealth & Democracy- by Kevin Phillips

My first choice would be Howard Zinn, but just for the sake of other sources- I'll suggest Phillips.

[ima_sinnic]

26. Harvey Wasserman's History of the United States

it's out of print but look around on the internet, used book dealers, etc.

[TheBigGuy]

28. Thumbs down for Howard Zinn.

Zinn has a very left-wing- biased view of US history.......he would be good as a supplement to a more mainstream survey of US history, but not as a primary source.

Ive read most of Zinns' book, and I am a history buff, so I'm not speaking ex-cathedra here.

[MiltonLeBerle]

31. not a supplement, but a companion.

"Mainstream" doesn't mean "accurate".
and just because the winners write the history books, it doesn't mean that the 'losers' are liars.

[TheBigGuy]

32. Zinn isnt accurate either.

I think he leaves stuff out and spins stuff too.

[MiltonLeBerle]

33. "inacurate" by omission is not the same as 'lying'.

When writing a book about the history of the U.S. since the days of Columbus, it's extremely difficult to include absolutely everything.
Name one history book that doesn't leave stuff out.

But, using your parameters there is no such thing as an accurate history book, is there?

[TheBigGuy]

36. He really obscures the chronology....

....I wasnt too impressed by his book, to be honest. I found that I already knew of alot of the things he wrote about.

[U4ikLefty]

34. Wow...stuff?!? Thanks for being so specific.

Left-wing biased?!? Am I on the correct board?

[TheBigGuy]

38. Two examples...

He omits the anti-German hysteria and discrimination that occured during WW-I. This was a signifigant feature of the "home front" and its suprising that its not in his book, given his "populist" bias.

He omits the gay rights movement during his discussion of the movements that surfaced from the 1960s. The rise of gay rights was unprecedented, and is certainly to be inlcluded in any history of the US, esp one that calls itself a "peoples history".

[U4ikLefty]

41. I would agree with you on the "gay-rights" issue...but only

as something that would frame the debate for later decades..like the 70's. And in the reaction against "gay-rights" in the 80's with the AIDS epedemic. But these truths would only contribute to more calls of "left-wing" bias.

The mention of (of ommission of) either of these topics wouldn't take away from his overall assesment of the history of our contry.

[TheBigGuy]

35. My favorite US (actually North American) history.

DW Meinigs three volume historical geography...

Atlantic America
Contintetal America
Transcontinental America.

One of the juiciest best written historys of the US, and also (since its a historical geography) filled w. maps. This series has recieved very positive critical reception from the academic community of historians and geographers, so its not just me who thinks this is a great read.

The neat thing is that Meinig treats US history in a continental context....he also deals w. Canada, Mexico, and the Carribean.

[TheBigGuy]

40. some links to DW Meinig...MUST READs for anyone into US history

I think these three books are must reads for anyone seriously interested in US history. Meing doesnt have a political axe to grind, but you can see the origins of US imperialism by reading these books, and how the US fits into a bigger historical picture. Outstanding work here....and fun to read.....


Atlantic America (1492-1800)
http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/038828.htm

Continental America (1800-1867)
http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/062907.htm

Transcontinental America (1850-1915)
http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/075928.htm

[Lafe]

37. My Reccomendation

'Lies My Teacher Told Me' by James Loewen

Shows how U.S. textbooks are self-censored to remove controversies.Gives good examples of what is often left out and the lies and myths that are often passed off as history.

[Maddy McCall]

39. ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

This is required reading for ALL education majors in any of my classes.

Loewen dispells myths such as Betsy Ross, the First Thanksgiving, etc.

A fantastic book that cuts through the American History bullshit!

[newyawker99]

45. Hi Lafe!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pizzathehut]

42. The Rewriting of American History

I dont remember the author. It doesnt cover those topics but is interesting and not very long.

[pizzathehut]

43. Actually History is constantly being rewritten

when new information comes to light.

Their was a good article in the "Atlantic Monthly" magazine about how the history of the American Indians is being rewritten. Basically instead of being "in harmony with nature" the new evidence is that they were actually very advanced and did manipulate the environment. Good reading.