I there were no Sept. 11th, where do you think we would be right now?

[neoteric lefty]

If the Septemeber 11th attacks never happened (lets put aside the MIHOP and LIHOP arguments) what state would our nation be in right now? As much I disagree with right-wingers on most things, I do agree that September 11th changed this country, but not in the way that they believe. 9/11 opened the doors for fear, propaganda, and faux patriotism to enter our everyday lives. It has raised the stakes in domestic and foreign politics. But what if it had never have happened?

I post that question to you.

(BTW spell check doesn't work :))

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. We wouldn't be in Iraq

no reason to go. We'd still have our civil liberties, too. But the news media would still be fawning over Shrub.

[neoteric lefty]

4. You don't think they couldn't have snuck

in the Patriot Act in some version (watered-down maybe) with a Republican Congress even without 9/11?

[DarkPhenyx]

2. Right where we are now.

They didn't need an excuse to invade Iraq. It just made it easier.

[starroute]

3. Just about where we are right now

Afghanistan was already in the planning stage before September 11. So was Iraq. Ashcroft obviously had his eye on something like the Patriot Act. September 11 was a convenient exucse (whether or not it was LIHOP/MIHOP), but they would have found other reasons.

There have been periods in history when our country's leaders were obviously making things up as they went along (like the New Deal.) This isn't one of them.

[styersc]

5. We would be exactly where we are today.

That's the whole point- Bush was going in to Iraq, no matter what, he was going to war with Saddam.

Sept 11 was just a (flimsy) excuse.

[neoteric lefty]

6. But without 9/11, how would he have gotten the support

before 9/11, most people (and most Republicans) wanted nothing to do with invading Iraq (except for hte neocons and PNACers). I just do not know how they would have sold it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Right we are now, except we'd still have the Towers

and I wouldn't feel sad every time I go downtown.

They wanted Afghanistan and Iraq even before the elections. The invasion of Iraq was already planned out before 9-11. The attacks only made it easier to do what they wanted; but they would have done it anyway.

The economy would still be fucked, we'd still be in a quagmire in Iraq, we'd still be forgetting that we have troops in Afghanistan.

The only thing that might be different is that, without the bulsshit of 9-11 helping to bolster good will for us around the world, our invasion of Iraq might have eleicited even MORE bad will from other countries, and perhaps we'd not only be in a quagmire in Iraq, but might even be fighting other countries' military who would be helping to liberate Iraq from us. Probably not, because we still have,m by the far, the world's largest military, so likely no one would want to go up against us, but a lot of countries perhaps would be wanting to rescue Iraq. :-) but then, they also need Iraq's oil, so who knows.

But we'd still be there, just the same.

[Q3JR4]

8. Well....

As I see it, *'s approval ratings were going down the toilet right before the events of 9-11.

The election shortly after that would have been a referendum on the president as far as the American people were concerned, and that might have put both houses of congress into Democratic control (the Senate for sure).

This, of course, would have provided the necessary oversight function as per the founders origional intent.

With the Senate in Democrat hands, half the shit that's been pushed through wouldn't have had a chance (at least, one can only hope).

[The Animator]

9. I don't think they would have had the chance...

If it weren't for September 11th, there wouldn't have gotten this rally round the President effect. Nobody would have forgotten that Bush didn't actually win the election and when strong evidence surfaced that he and his people actually out right stole it, the public, at least the democrats, would have demanded that Al Gore take his rightful place in the White House.

At the very least we wouldn't have a Republican controled Congress, the people of this country would have been deluded by fear, so the House and Senate would have been more balanced.

Many of us would still have decent jobs.

YA know what scratch that...

We would probably all be speaking Chinese right now. Bush had a hard on for China when he first took office. Anybody remember that bit with the mid-air collision of that A-wack over Chinese air-space? That retard would have gotten us into a war with China and we would have lost.

[Cleita]

10. We would have been in the third year of the Gore presidency

because I have always thought that there was always a chance there would not have been a 9/11 under Gore. As time goes on, I become even more and more certain that it wouldn't have happened.

[Ready4Change]

11. Rueing Sept 12th?

For 9/11 to not have happened, you've got to change some basic world dynamics. If you don't change the dynamics, all you do is shift 9/11 to some other day.

[Mizmoon]

12. Things would be better

We wouldn't have run up as much debt. The economy would therefore have improved by now. We might have avoided this housing bubble that's wreaking havoc with real estate and causing strange trends like the recent inward migration in people leaving the coasts for cheaper living. It would have also tempted fewer people to borrow on their home equity.

One thing is for sure ... if the attack hadn't happened on 9/11 it would have happened a year or two later and been worse. All the evidence shows that the Bush admin had planned to ignore terrorism threats entirely.