My crazy idea - no more gasoline, wind powered cars

[smada]

OK, I'm not an engineer so maybe I'm missing something. I got to thinking the other day about hybrid cars, electric cars, using less oil, etc. Very stream of consciousness stuff.

As I thought about it, I realized something. I believe hybrid cars generate electricity to power the drive engine. They generate this electricity by spinning a turbine, which is driven by gasoline combustion.

That led me to think about something. The car I currently drive is a turbo. A turbo is basically an exhaust driven turbine that spins a fan to create more air pressure.

Is it not conceivable that the same principles could be applied to spin an electricity generating turbine rather than an air compressor? Instead of using exhaust pressure though, it would have to be engineered to use the wind resistance generated by everyday driving.

That wind resistance could spin the turbine that would create the electricity to power the car. Capacitors would be used, just as they are in today's hybrid cars, to store the excess electricity so the car would have power reserves.

It would use no gasoline at all and have truly zero emissions.

Is this not a feasible idea?

[shoelace414]

1. the energy required

to "push" the car through the air would negate any good.

[treepig]

2. what about airplanes?

they already have something much like you describe - jet engines!

just get them to run in reverse (or be powered in reverse, or somethign like that - i.e., just have them spinning as a consequence, not the cause, of the plane rapidly moving through the air) and we're all set.

[Blue Wally]

3. Back in 1947............

At the age of eight, I came up with a truly brilliant idea on powering of cars. I would run cars on compressed air!! As the car rolled down the road, an air pump connected to the axle would refill the compressed air tank thus allowing the car to run without gasoline!! I made numerous drawings of compressed air cars and trucks during the spring semester of the second grade. I got into deep trouble with Miss Ball, my teacher, for drawing compressed air vehicles while I should have been listening to whatever subject she was covering at the time. She must have been one of those women who are science-phobic.

[treepig]

4. wow, you were 50 years ahead of your time

or more, considering that the following car is not self-refilling

http://www.theaircar.com/

[AngryAmish]

5. Not feasible

Kinda like a perpetual motion machine. One cannot create energy or matter.

[Massacure]

7. It will eventually stop, however it is more efficient than non refilling.

[Tina H]

6. Comments

How will this wind-powered car accelerate to "make" wind to keep it going?

Here are some excerpts of patent documents in the rea of wind powered cars that you might find helpful:

United States Patent Application 20040084908
Kind Code A1
Vu, Thomas H. May 6, 2004

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Wind energy capturing device for moving vehicles


Abstract
A wind energy capturing device for moving vehicles including a wind turbine powered electrical power generator for installation on the roof of a moving vehicle such as a truck cab or tractor. The invention takes advantage of the powerful wind force generated by the vehicle moving on the road at moderate to high speed impinging against the wind deflector mounted on the truck cab or tractor. This otherwise "wasted" wind energy is captured and directed to the face area of the rotor blade, rotating the turbine, which, in turn, drives the generator to generate electricity. The electrical energy may be stored in a battery system and used to drive the motors of an electric vehicle or hybrid-electric vehicle.



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United States Patent 6,138,781
Hakala October 31, 2000

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System for generating electricity in a vehicle


Abstract
A wind-powered system for generating electricity in a vehicle or other power consumption unit generally having a multi-stage impeller system for driving an electric generator/alternator, an improved air channel, and an improved start-up/back-up air compressor. The multi-stage impeller system includes high-speed impellers and low-speed impellers for efficient energy conversion throughout the entire range of a vehicle's operating speeds or forward motion. The improved start-up/back-up air compressor discharges air directly to the multi-stage impellers, abolishing the need for heavy air accumulators. The improved air channel includes a specially formed air scoop/vortex, a wind tube/tunnel and a heating element to increase the velocity of the air passing therethrough.

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United States Patent 5,680,032
Pena October 21, 1997

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Wind-powered battery charging system


Abstract
During forward motion of an electrically-powered vehicle, air is captured at the front of the vehicle and channeled to one or more turbines. The air from the turbines is discharged at low pressure regions on the sides and/or rear of the vehicle. The motive power of the air rotates the turbines, which are rotatably engaged with a generator to produce electrical energy that is used to recharge batteries that power the vehicle. The generator is rotatably engaged with a flywheel for storing mechanical energy while the vehicle is in forward motion. When the vehicle slows or stops, the flywheel releases its stored energy to the generators, thereby enabling the generator to continue recharging the batteries. The flywheel enables the generators to provide a more stable and continuous current flow for recharging the batteries.

[mike1963]

8. I can't believe patents were granted on these insane ideas

:eyes:

Can't work. (Well, they can "function", but will consume more energy than they produce...)

[smada]

10. Why is that an insane idea?

It seems to me it would work and could work quite well. If you stop to think that the wind generated isn't directly powering the car, it's being used to charge a battery and create electricity, it seems very feasible.

[treepig]

14. the major source of friction/drag at highway speeds is air resistance

engineers have worked very hard to reduce "drag" to increase fuel efficiency - for more information see

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1520.htm

trying to harness the "wind" passing a car would enormously increase the drag coefficient. in fact, the amount of energy generated would not be sufficient to even overcome the increased drag, let alone power the car.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. because it takes more power to push the car against the air

than you can get back from a turbine on the car. You can't get power out of nowhere.

Now, a land yacht, which uses the energy of the wind to get power, is feasible - and is already done on sand and ice as well as, of course, sea. But the trick is to get decent power that allows you to go in absolutely any direction you want. No-one has invented a sail, or other device, that works truly well at that. Instead, all yachts accept that, relative to the wind, there will be a direction you can't go directly - you have to tack, going first one way close to it, and then another way, but still close to the direction you want to be going. That works in wide open spaces, but on roads where you can only go in precisely the direction you want, it hasn't been done yet.

[theboss]

18. Because energy has to be generated

Basically, the idea is the same as running a toaster off the heat in burning bread. You would have to constantly being toasting bread in order to run the toaster.

[Tina H]

28. If the ideas don't work . . .

then, as you seem to realize, there is little harm in granting a monopoly on them.

btw, I think one of the documents is merely a published application. That means the patent office is probably discussing things with the applicant now and trying to decide whether to grant a patent or not.

[smada]

12. Well, that's exactly it

That's what I had in mind, but I guess someone was about 7 years ahead of me. I hope it gets developed.

[Tina H]

29. hopefully it was the patent system . . .

that incentivized the inventor to disclose her idea to the world at such an early juncture in history. This is the kind of benefit that the patent system is supposed to provide society with.

[mike1963]

9. Unfortunately, no...

;-)

[Papa]

11. I had the same Idea as a child and was shot down by a rocket scientist

A friend of the family told me it wouldn't work, perpetual motion machine and all that jazz. I thought of it as a way to re-charge the car less often too.

[gpandas]

13. if it works...

someone will build it,sell it, and become a billionaire.

[treepig]

16. how about "free" power from overhead power lines?

http://www.queenhill.demon.co.uk/radiation/sources/power.htm

Electrical power lines generate strong electric and magnetic fields, at the mains frequency of 50 or 60 cycles per second.


If you live near a power line and run a loop of wire round your loft, the magnetic field is so powerful that you can tap off enough electric power for your household needs


If you hold one end of a fluorescent light tube near a high voltage power line, the electric field can be so powerful that the tube will light up - a neat party trick and thought to be quite safe.



Power lines spark light show

The field lights up as darkness falls each evening
Hundreds of fluorescent tubes (shown above) have been "planted" in a field in an art event demonstrating electricity fields under power lines.

Rows of lights are flickering into life each evening as a result of emissions from the cables above.

[info being]

22. Kind of like what Tesla was doing 100 years ago

He came up with a way to generate electricity that travels through the air...kind of a "public commons" energy. Unfortunately, there was no way to meter it and, thus, corporations like GE preferred the wireline approach.

There's a museum in Colorado Springs which has this technology on display.

[Gregorian]

17. The problem is not how we are producing power, it's

how much power we are using. Go ahead engineers with four kids, pile on top of me. I've had this argument for years, generally with people who have lots of KIDS. It's the same chicken and egg argument that we have with things like preemptive war. But basically, for the last few years (ie, thousands, if not millions of years) we lived off of the land in small enough numbers that we didn't need to be concerned with destroying the planet. Some people say that we can engineer our way around the problem. Go ahead, have six billion, or more people living the way we do. Just make the energy so that it doesn't destroy the planet. Fine, let's see it! I say that there are too many people, and combining that number with the way in which we live, is the real killer.
And forget about wind power unless you have enough wind to power the things we need. We did use wind. Sailboats, windmills. (Hydroelectric is good, if you don't mind flooding valleys, and you don't have many people. Fusion might be THE answer, but that appears to be off in the future some ways.) But LAX flies in 11 million pounds of cargo EACH DAY! Try doing that with wind. Let alone the petroleum that is required in order to manufacture those goods. The average distance a vegetable travels in order to get to the grocers is around 1500 miles! It's absolutely ridiculous, in these numbers. It's not ridiculous when done in moderation. Six billion is ridiculous. Period. So all of the wind and sun and wave power won't do us any good. I say that partially because much of the world has not started to use energy, yet. Highly efficient solar cells are coming. But even when we get to the point where we can produce hydrogen efficiently (and we are not there yet, despite what Governor Bush says. That's another story) there are still ramifications from producing power in such large amounts.
This is the most important issue we can talk about. And noone is talking. Noone. Noone will touch this issue. It's about sex, and it's about parental right.
I cannot find a single forum on the internet devoted to population.

And I am an engineer. I don't claim to know much. But I know enough to be able to avoid basic pitfalls in logic.

I'll stop now. I have some energy to go use up.

[theboss]

19. Who should we sterilize first?

Since Europeans have negative birth rates now, we would have to start with Latinos, Asians, and Africans.

You go to the UN with that proposal.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. One Yahoo group about overpopulation

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mail2PREP/

"We believe that overpopulation is an important factor that leads to the following problems:
Human Suffering and Starvation
Global Warming
Species Extinction
Environmental Pollution etc
We are focused to create awareness and take measures on population growth."

115 members; about 1 new message a day. I'm not a member; I've no idea what the quality of discussion is like.

[DS1]

21. We'd all have to travel in the afternoon and listen to Rush

You said hot air powered, right?

[info being]

23. I'm waiting for hybrid bicycles

The energy exerted peddling is captured into the battery to help you along. Basically, you go twice as far with the same amount of energy.

[nonkultur]

25. No need to wait.

The current electric bikes charge when you pedal or go downhill.

[Independent_Minded]

24. sorry to rain on your parade

but Google "The law of thermodynamics", im afraid your idea isnt feasible.

[Samurai_Writer]

26. Got your car right here...

www.theaircar.com

[chaska]

27. What's the latest on these things? Last time this came up...

some guy totally highjacked the thread insisting (in a rather intimidating manner) that it couldn't possibly work, and that it was a hoax. Has anyone seen one for sale, or anything of that sort?

[CJCRANE]

30. I would prefer solar-powered personal airships! n/t

.