I changed my avatar to Wesley Clark and I am damned pleased.

[Pepperbelly]

Let's talk for a minute.

Probably the most substantial criticism of Wesley Clark is that he is not a career politician. I submit that is a strength rather than a weakness.

Wesley is a problem solver. When confronted with either a situation or a condition, Wesley is not restricted by a lifetime of ideology in deciding what is the best course. The joke about gops and their solutions to every problem --a tax cut and an investigation to see why the Democrats caused it-- is not just restricted to gops. Every ideologue sees problems through the prisms of their past proclamtions. Either they seek solutions only through the lens of their ideology or they take the heat for flip-flopping.

Wesley is in a position to look at the merits of each solution only through the lens of pragmatism and that is exactly what we need at this juncture to undo the damage wrought by Bush and his gang. Wesley's values are strong and I think that as events unfold, people here will be pleasantly surprised at his concern for the least among us as well as the middle class. And yeah, it might just be an even bigger tragedy to have someone who is educated and trained and working far below their level of skill than it is for someone middle class to take a big hit on their 401Ks. Of course we should be concerned about that but is there really any argument about the tragedies experienced on a daily basis by the working poor in America and the slo-mo train wreck that is the economic condition of those folk?

Wesley's personal courage, his dedication to the US Constitution, his committment to people is unchallenged. I have finally decided.

I support him 1000%.

[tjdee]

1. Is he running or NOT, ugh.

I really liked what I saw today, and I've been reading more about him.

I've been reluctant to do so because he is *still* not in the race.

I know the reasons he hasn't declared, etc. and that's cool I guess, but the longer he holds out, the greater the hype he has to live up to. For us politicos, LOL, the rest of America isn't even paying attention.

I'm very impatient.

But he'd easily be near the top of my list the day he announces. I like him, and really, isn't that what it comes down to?

[barbaraann]

2. This is why I am leaning more to Dean than Clark.

From Dean's website:

"The great lie spoken by politicians on platforms like this is the cry of "elect me and I will solve all your problems." The truth is the future of our nation rests in your hands, and not in mine. You have the power to reclaim our nation's destiny. You have the power to rid Washington of the politics of money. You have the power to make right as important as might. You have the power to give Americans a reason to vote again. You have the power to restore our nation to fiscal sanity and bring jobs back to our people. You have the power to fulfill Harry Truman's dream and bring health insurance to every American. You have the power to give us a foreign policy consistent with American values again. You have the power to take back the Democratic Party. You have the power to take our country back. And we have the power to take the White House back in 2004."

I am not trying to attack Clark, but I AM looking for someone to revitalize the Dem grassroots.

[Pepperbelly]

3. I understand what you are saying ...

At the same time, take a look at Dean's proposals for health care reform and see if you see the ideological prism through which he views it?

To me, it is very plain.

Only Kucinich and Braun have spoken the absolute truth about the issue and neither of them, IMO, stand a chance of building enough of a national power base to do anything about it but Clark seems to approach health care from a pragmatic direction, noting that it should be a given that people will get health care and citing the way it is handled in the armed forces. If one gets sick, they go see the doc. Period.

Just a suggestion and no flames at all but I think that the ideology vs. pragmatic problem solving may well be a key.

[barbaraann]

5. Yes. I guess because of what I have seen of non-grassroots

Dem politics, though, I just feel in my soul that Dean's stands matter less than his message of empowerment. I disagree in many ways with his health care proposals, actually.

[w4rma]

15. What ideological prism? Please elaborate on your statement.

...
For a year now, I have been traveling this country advocating a repeal of Bush's tax cuts so that we can provide universal healthcare and restore fiscal discipline. Many have questioned the political wisdom of challenging the president on politically popular tax cuts.

I believe, however, that given a choice between having health insurance or keeping all of the Bush's tax cuts in place, most Americans will choose health insurance. My plan will cost $88.3 billion -- less than half of the president's tax cut -- with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration.

My plan consists of four major components.

First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we'll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs -- Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 -- middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need.

Second, we'll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level -- $16,613 -- will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need.

Many working families have incomes that put them beyond the help offered by government programs. But this doesn't mean they have viable options for healthcare. We'll establish an affordable health insurance plan people can buy into, providing coverage nearly identical to what members of Congress and federal employees receive.

To cushion the costs, we'll also offer a significant tax credit to those with high premium costs. By offering this help, another 5.5 million adults will have access to care.

Third, we need to recognize that one key to a healthy America is making healthcare affordable to small businesses.We shouldn't turn our back on the employer-based system we have now, but neither should we simply throw money at it. We need to modernize the system so employers will have an option beyond passing rising costs on to workers or bailing out of the system entirely. Fortunately, we have a model of efficient, affordable and user-friendly healthcare coverage: the federal employee health system.

With the plan I've put forth to the American people, we'll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy. And we'll enable all employers with less than 50 workers to join it at rates lower than are currently available to these companies -- provided they insure their work force. I'll also offer employers a deal: The federal government will pick up 70% of COBRA premiums for employees transitioning out of their jobs, but we'll expect employers to pay the cost of extending coverage for an additional two months. These two months are often the difference between workers finding the health coverage they need, or joining the ranks of the uninsured.

Finally, to ensure that the maximum number of American men, women and children have access to healthcare, we must address corporate responsibility. There are many corporations that could provide healthcare to their employees but choose not to. The final element of this plan is a clear, strong message to corporate America that providing health coverage is fundamental to being a good corporate citizen. I look at business tax deductions as part of a compact between American taxpayers and corporate America. We give businesses certain benefits, and expect them to live up to certain responsibilities.
...
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_health

The plan will cost an estimated, "$88.3 billion". This is paid for from some of the money saved by repealing Bush's tax cuts.

The Dean proposal expands Medicaid and CHIP to ages 25 and under. CHIP is expanded to adults earning up to "185% of the poverty level" (currently, $16,613).

For the "capitalist" half of the Dean plan: Folks with high health premium costs recived "a significant tax credit" to cushion the costs. The current "employer-based system" in use now will be modernized by upgrading it to the same healthcare coverage that "federal workers and members of Congress" have available to them.

Small buisnesses of less than 50 workers get lower rates than their larger competitors. Employers pick up the tab for 2 months in between jobs, but the costs of the COBRA premiums for those 2 months are subsidized, at 70%, by the federal government for employers. Corporations will receive "business tax deductions" as an incentive for supplying health care to their employees.

[Pepperbelly]

19. why

are health insurance companies and employers even in the mix at all?

A single payer system is the only sane way to fix what is broken. The profit motive in coverage is the root of the entire problem.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Single-payer won't pass through a Pug Congress.

Next question.

(btw, Dean said he'd sign Single-payer if it hit his desk. It won't, so he's proposing an HC plan that will.)

[Pepperbelly]

27. I addressed the question

that was posed.

And a gop Congress is not necessarily written in stone either.

on edit:

I do not know how much I would count on the Democrats either on this. They deserted Clintoncare like rats when the insurance industry brought pressure to bear. But no one can deny that health cre profit is the author of the problems and until that is dealt with, the problems will only get worse because for these guys, the question 'how much money do they need?' is easily answered. Just one dollar more. Always.

[Eloriel]

45. It's SO easy

to promise (or say you support) things that will never pass in the form promised or supported. It's SAFE to do that. You won't even have to do much to push any bill through, 'cause it's dead to start with.

Go ahead and support Clark if you want to. I prefer Dean's approach which he has described thusly (paraphrased, but closely): Democrats have been trying to get healthcare passed since Harry Truman, and they haven't succeeded yet. Everytime it comes up, they fight amongst themselves about the best way to do it, and it fails as a result, and 40 million AMericans end up going without health insurance for ANOTHER 10 years. It's time to get them covered and THEN we'll address the other problems.

Yeah, let's DO get it passed. He can. He's done it. His plan offends no one (powerful lobbyists, etc.), is reasonably cost-effective, covers almost everyone, and gets the job done. That's what I love about Dean. He's a Dreamer-Doer, someone who has big dreams and makes them work. A pragmatist.

People can "dream" about single-payer all they want, and run after some of the candidates proposing it. It ain't gonna happen in the next 4 years no matter which Dem gets in office, not even if we end up controlling both houses. Let's get a program IN there, and then we can work on more.

Eloriel

[w4rma]

39. I agree that single payer is the best solution

However, the Democratic candidate who advocates single payer will have an extremely hard battle against big HMOs.

This solution has a good chance of passing within Dean's first term. Single Payer still hasn't passed and we've been fighting for it since Truman's period in office.

Just because we pass something, doesn't mean we can't revisit it later.

[tjdee]

4. Clark isn't saying he'll solve all problems.

Right now, it's just some folks wanting Clark to do that--grassroots, if you will.

That's why I'm so interested to see what Clark HIMSELF has to say about it.

Personally, I don't completely buy Dean's "you have the power" thing. It sounds real nice, but the politicians we elect DO have to follow through at a level that we can't--which is why we elect them. We DO elect them to solve problems. I see what he's saying, but to me the way he says it sounds really idealistic or something. I'm not articulating correctly, so I'll stop....sigh, I don't mean to "bash Dean", but that's how I feel about it. I'm sure someone will see it that way.

[barbaraann]

10. We do have to see and hear more from both Dean and Clark.

But I grew up in the military and know that it's the opposite of a grassroots-growing environment and worry about whether Clark would be a good for the Democratic Party as he could be for the country if he won the nomination.

[Pepperbelly]

30. only time will tell and in the final analysis ...

it will come down to votes and delegates.

[tameszu]

7. I think both Dean and Clark have shown

that they can revitalize the grassroots.

They can do it because they are doing it--look at all of the new people both Dean and Clark have brought into politics using the Internet!

The difference is that they may appeal to different parts of the base and different kinds of disaffected voters. Dean grabs the Dems and lefties who are sick of people not smacking Bush and the Repubs hard and directly. Clark grabs those people who are sick of losing and sick of Dems who can't say something both critical and intelligent on foreign policy; he also brings back some of the moderates and crossover Rebublicans. Both have significant independent appeal.

[barbaraann]

12. And as a team, Dean and Clark would have broad appeal.

:-)

[NNN0LHI]

6. I said it in another thread which is locked now so I will say it again

All Junior has going for him right now is he is a wartime president. That is his only claim to fame. Trump that with General Clark running and Junior had better start packing his bags for his trip back to his pig farm in Waco, Texas.

Don

[barbaraann]

13. Minor quibble.

Many fundamentalists also think Bush is a "godly man." How anyone could think this for even a split second is beyond me, but they do.

[NNN0LHI]

22. I won't argue with that statement n/t

[Auntie Bush]

38. Bush back to the Pig farm

I feel sorry for Bush. Sob! What the heck is he going to do on that empty pig farm? How boreing. (sp lol) He doesn't even have any ANIMALS to care for! Except Tom Delay!

[mantis]

42. You are

100% correct.

[buff2]

8. If Clark runs I will support him

If he decides to not run,then I will support Dean.

[babzilla]

9. its great that you finally decided

are you related to him somehow? I think I remember that you were looking for questions to ask him in advance of some family gathering.

"Probably the most substantial criticism of Wesley Clark is that he is not a career politician. I submit that is a strength rather than a weakness."

I agree that it is a strength, although I really haven't seen much criticism of people for not being career politicians. On the contrary career politicians are often criticized for being beltway insiders. I see DC outsiders as having the advantage in the upcoming presidential campaign.

Pet-peeve alert: you can support him 1000% more than you do someone else but if you are simply describing the whole of your support it can only be 100%.:)

[Pepperbelly]

11. you made a fundamendtal error in your post ...

I looooooove stepping on people's pet peeves.

1000%.

:evilgrin:

[babzilla]

23. what is the fundamental error?

Can you be more specific?

[Pepperbelly]

25. telling ME of all people what

your pet peeve is!

:evilgrin:

I say that with 1000% of my sincerity.

[babzilla]

29. in that case

I am 1,000,000% certain that you will answer the questions in my first post.

That would be post #9, about being related to Wesley and the DU questions that you asked for.

edited for clarity

[babzilla]

32. long lost cousin

kick

[Clete]

14. Unless you too are not a registered Democrat

neither is Clark, so do we need him and Ralph Nader making sure Bushie gets reelected?

[Dookus]

16. If you've been paying attention....

it's very obvious that if he runs, he will do so as a Democrat.

I expect he'll announce in early September that he's registered as a dem and that he's running for President.

And I think he'll win both the nomination and the election.

[Pepperbelly]

18. Arkansas does not have party registration and I have never voted in any

but the Democratic primary.

Wesley, btw, voted in the Democratic primaries here.

[Clete]

20. If he's running with the Democrats,

he won't get very far. There is too much competition among the other candidates, some of whom are very well funded.

[Pepperbelly]

21. I am not sure what it is you are saying in your post ...

Should I not support him because he is an underdog at this point?

[Clete]

34. Support whom you like.

Just make sure you aren't giving Dumbya another four years in the White House. We still have a chance to save our country.

[tjdee]

24. Say that again in two months.

I don't know if Clark is my ideal candidate yet, but I'm fairly certain he'll have no problem.

He's already raised half a mil and he's not declared. And, as for the competition, there are already 2 or 3 candidates wasting our time-- so what's another guy, who easily outranks and outclasses those who shouldn't be in the race at all?

[mantis]

44. Yeah

That is why "undecided" wins every poll.

[mantis]

43. You are

comparing clark with Ralph Nader?

Go crawl back in your hole.

[jumptheshadow]

17. Well, I'm on board, too

You're right, he has always struck me as a pragmatic man, and we need a voice of reason right now. His observations about the war on terrorism, our failed diplomatic relationships and our blundering rush into Iraq have resonated with me for a few months now. He has a sophisticated approach to international affairs. I suspect he would immediately help us repair some of the gratuitous damage that Junior has done to our worldwide alliances, and in the process, to our national security. I would hope that he would work toward generating a true peacekeeping coalition in Iraq so we can redeploy our resources to our own national infrastructure.

A lot of other Americans will probably see it that way, as well.

[Bushknew]

28. I want to win and therefore

I am seriously considering Clark. Clark can take away the mistaken believe
that the Republican party can protect America better than the Democratic party can.

I believe in what Sharpton and Kucinich have to say, but I know they can not win.

I donÕt know much about Clark, but if a Progressive like Michael Moore is saying
Good things about him, I will definitely begin to pay attention to him now.

Let's get rid of the Bush junta.

[chaska]

31. Welcome to the fold Pepperbelly.

I hope you aspire to join the order of the Blow-dried Napoleons.

[Avalux]

33. After today - changed mine too

I've been excited about Clark for awhile - guess I'll join everyone else. Just hope his announcement is the one we want!

[chaska]

35. We'll know in 2-3 weeks.

I've been a supporter for a couple months now. I've seen pretty much every appearance, and I have to say that if he bows out it won't be because he doesn't want to do run. I am unequivocally convinced that he wants to run. I can't imagine why he wouldn't. The money will be there.

Keep the faith. He's gonna do it.

Oh, welcome to you too sparosnare.

[Pepperbelly]

36. well ...

his wife doesn't want him to run.

And that will ring loudly in his ears.

[MoonRiver]

37. I agree 100%. Clark's the man to beat Bush, plus save US and the world

Kerry would have been my #1 choice if it hadn't been for his blockheaded poisiton on Iraq. I really like Dean, but I think he'll have a lot of trouble winning the presidency. Clark can do it. For one thing he will draw people from all political swaths, including Repubs who are fed up with Junior's lies and imperialistic illusions, and very liberal people like me who love Clark's honesty, decency, committment to upholding our liberties, and common sense stands on social issues.

Former Supreme Commander of NATO forces, GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, DEMOCRAT, PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I think that has a decidly lovely ring, kinda like the Liberty Bell used to sound.

[grasswire]

40. me three

....or whatever. I'm supporting Clark. I want Karl Rove to sweat and stew. And I want Bar and Poppy to get bent. And I want George to be humiliated.

And I want revenge on the vast right wing conspiracy. I want Bush kicked on his kiester so hard that the GOP is decimated.

[spanone]

41. I feel the same way, I'm tired of these so called professional

politicians. Clark is a straight talker which is unheard of in the political world. Also he knows more about war than George could imagine, especially the dangers. Count me in.