Who selected Bustamante to run for the Dems?

[eablair3]

does anyone know who selected Cruz Bustamante to be the only establishment Dem to run in the CA recall?

Garamandi backed out. Why did Garamandi back out? Who brought pressure on him to back out only a day or two after he was giving speeches about being a candidate for Governor in the recall?

The Repugs have at least three main candidates (Simon, McClintock & Terminator). Why do the Repubs have three? Isn't this going to hurt them? I saw Art Torres on TV playing up McClintock and taking slams at Ahnold this morning. Looks like the Dems are doing the same thing they did before in the Governor's election, which is talking up and essentially supporting the Repug candidate that they would rather see gain ground. In this case, they seem more concerned about Ahnold, so they slam him while propping up McClintock so that the Repug vote is split. I understand that strategy.

And, I can understand the strategy of only having one establishment Dem on the ballot.

But, what does that say about "democracy" in the Dem party? You'd think that in a party with such a supposedly "large tent" that voters would be offered some substantial and somewhat diverse choices. But, for a Dem, there is one choice. Where's the "democracy" in the Dem party?

I am not trying to start anything, but rather am just interested in learning about how party decisions are made. Who makes these calls to run one candidate and only one candidate? And, what kind of power do they have to keep others from running? What kind of power must they have so that every other major dem falls in line? What does that say about the party? And, what would happen to a significant dem candidate who say did decide to challenge Bustamante in the recall? How "democratic" is it when the party can decide who runs and who doesn't run in a case like this? Who has the power to decide and enforce those decisions?

can anyone recommend any books about the inside workings of party politics and the hierarchy and power centers (on the national, state and grass roots level)?

thanks.

[wryter2000]

1. Heck if I know.

I only live here in CA. Still, I think it was a good move. I'll be no on recall and yes on Bustamante.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. The people of California.

As Lt. Governor, he is rightfully the heir apparent.

[GalleryGod]

5. Sage point,Rummy

My brother, a Marina Del Rey resident, is fuming...he feels the law,on it's face, is unconsitutional because the constitutionally mandated line-of-sucession is thwarted;thus=Coup.

BTW-IMHEO- I see it as Bustamante & the Sanchez Sisters moment for a Hispanic Carpe' Diem! =Fastforwarding the first hispanic governor. :kick:

[tsipple]

22. That's How Recall Ought to Work

If there is a gubernatorial recall, the Lt. Governor ought to be the one filling the shoes. There is plenty of logic in that.

[Clete]

3. If this were all kosher, Bustamante would be the next in

line for Governor if let's say Davis fell out of the sky in a little airplane. So that's where it comes from. He should be the next in line if Davis can't serve his term anymore.

[GalleryGod]

6. Hispanics see it as their moment...

If the untoward consequences of Issa's Coup de Tat are that Cruz is elected...then the Dem's will have the mansion for years. It'll institutionalize the Hispanics=Dem's

[Pepperbelly]

4. Bustamante selected himself... nt

[eablair3]

7. and does Cruz have the power to keep others from running?

I understand that Cruz B had to make the decision to run, and that that was his decision. Bill Simon, Tom McClintock and Arnold all made their own decisions, too. The Repug voters seem to have more choices, and one could say that on this basis that the Repugs are more democratic than the Democrats.

Who in the dem party has the power to keep other dems from running? Does Cruz B have that much power? Did he get Garamandi to back out? Was he able to keep other major dems from running? I don't know for sure, but I doubt that he had that much power. Who does? And, what kind of "sticks" do they use on other dems who might wanted to have put their name on the ballot?

[Pepperbelly]

8. Maybe no one else wanted to

be thrown in that particular briar patch.

I sure as shit wouldn't want the job right now.

[eablair3]

10. Garamendi was running and then suddenly backed out

well, at least one other major dem, Garamendi, was running, and running enthusiastically. But, it was a complete turn around in about the space of a day. he suddenly withdrew, after enthusiastically announcing his candidacy only a day or two earlier.

so, there is at least one that was running, but the powers that be got to him. what kind of power is that? who wields it? i thought this was a democracy.

[Pepperbelly]

13. Maybe it was ...

Clinton's penis!

:D

:evilgrin:

[Clete]

9. No one in the Dem party is stopping anyone from running.

It has been their choice because they too see it as a coup. If this goes through and the previously elected democrats aren't where they should be then we have lost to the RW PNAC.

[eablair3]

14. Who "annointed" Bustamante to be the only major dem?

maybe instead of "selected", I should have asked "Who 'annointed' Bustamante to be only major dem candidate and thereby keep others from even putting there name on the ballot?

The party seems very much like a hierarchy. Much like an authoritarian type corporation. If you don't fall in line, you will get stomped. Who wields that power? How is used?

Am I wrong? It doens't seem like it. Again, I'm looking to learn, so if anyone can recommend any books about the inside power politics of the parties, I'd appreciate it.

[Clete]

23. One more time. Sigh.

Cruz Bustamante was ELECTED by the people of California as Lt. Governor. Our Constitution states that if our Governor is no longer able to serve, the Lt. Governor will become Governor. No one appointed or annointed him.

So, he rightfully should succeed Davis until the next election.IMHO

[eablair3]

27. one more time

i know and see that this is the popular response, but it's wrong. If that was correct, there would be no need for anyone to run. There would just be the one question put to the voters about whether Davis should be recalled. But, we ALL know that is not the case.

The California Supreme Court rejected this very argument quickly when it was recently made in one of the lawsuits that were filed. Even the democratic Secretary of State rejected this position and ordered a full election if the recall were to succeed. The California Supreme Court confirmed that. So, the California Constitution does not sprovde for the Lt. Gov. to automatically becomes Gov when the Gov gets recalled.

so, despite your opinion on this, my opinion on this, and others', .. the recall process calls for the Gov to be elected if there is a successful recall.

[Clete]

31. If Bustamante becomes Governor, he will be elected again.

My argument is that the RW is trying to undo our election process and if you will, the will of the people by exploiting this loophole. So I know they want Arnold or another Republican. We really need to hand them Davis or Bustamante back instead. They have been elected by the people.

Anyone who does become Governor will do so with less votes than the Governor and that includes Bustamante. However, Bustamante has more credibility, having been elected Lt. Governor, as being the choice of the people than any of the rest.

This is a battle for our democracy against the fascist tactics of the GOP.

[proud patriot]

11. This is just a guess

But I think Boxer was wanting a Dem on the ticket ..

[eablair3]

18. i did see Boxer question the strategy

I did see comments from Boxer questioning the strategy and bringing up the issue of wanting a dem on the ticket as a fall back position. Does Barbara Boxer have the power to annoint Cruz B as the one and to keep all other major Dems off the ticket?

[Democat]

12. He is next in line

It's pretty natural for him to run, just like it was natural for Gore to run in 2000. If there was more time before the election, I'm sure we would have seen a bunch of people fighting for it, but there was no time.

[eablair3]

16. i don't buy that line of reasoning, but thanks

saying he was next line, only confirms the hierarchical nature of the Dem party. Is it just run like an authoritarian corporation? The next line gets the nod? Anyone who steps out of line, gets crushed?

as to the time issue, dem Garamendi did announce, and was running. The next day he withdrew. How did that happen? Who had the power to make that happen?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. So if Clinton had been impeached...

Gore shouldn't have become President?

Make no mistake: This is another impeachment.

[eablair3]

21. it's a recall, not an impeachment

i don't have a problem with a recall in theory, as I believe it is a very democratic process. If more than 50% vote someone out, they should be out. The problem I have with this recall is that it was financed and bought wtih paid signature gatherers by one wealthy individual. I don't think that was very democratic at all, and that's why I favor outlawing paid signature gatherers in the intiative, referendum and recall processes.

but, a recall is not an impeachment. The person being recalled is not held to any standards of commmitting a high crime etc that is required in impeachment proceedings. A recall doesn't require that. All it requires is that more than 50% want the officeholder out.

I know you likely understand that, but I don't agree with the many people who try to seem to confuse these issues. You see and hear it all the time in California.

[Clete]

28. I really wish this could be considered illegal because

of the fact the petition gatherers were not grass roots volunteer but paid employees of Darrell Issa. I hope if Davis or Bustamante prevail that they will do what needs to be done to make this back into a grass roots process by making paid petition signature takers illegal.

[eablair3]

32. they don't favor that

the dems don't favor outlawing paid signature gatherers. I suppose the big money interests wouldn't want their hands tied when they pay big money to get deceptively named and marketed iniatives on the ballot to compete and counteract the ballot initiatives that grass roots people get on the ballot.

Say what you want about the Greens, but they do have it in their platform to outlaw paid signature gatherers. The Dems don't.

I heard Dem Willie Brown say that if this recall was successful and a Repug got in, then the Dems were prepared to spend millions to launch a campaign to get a recall qualified against the Repub Gov. I didn't hear Willie wanting to outlaw paid signature gatherers, despite how it would be a victory for democracy if they were outlawed. democratic reforms be damned, i guess. money is power. and they, too, have money.

[Clete]

15. As far as a book,

start with "Politics For Dummies". I'm not being facetious. It simplifies the process so you can go in deeper and it is non-partisan.

[eablair3]

19. thanks, but

I've actually seen that book and have looked at it. :) I don't think it really delves into the power moves that are made at the hgiher up levels on the state or federal level, iirc. It doesn't talk about the power wielded by the some in the party organizations and how that power is used, iirc.

thanks for the suggestion (and i know you were not being facetious). It'a decent book.

[Clete]

20. Okay so you don't need the primer.

:-) Just hang around here and ask questions. This is the best political education you could get.

[newsguyatl]

24. QUESTION

if you vote no on the recall, can you still vote on a replacement candidate?

[Clete]

25. So far, yes.

The way things are going now, though, I don't know if they will change this at the last minute.

[newsguyatl]

29. good

well there is still hope then


if they change that, we're screwed..


so it seems to be the logical thing to do would be to vote, no on recall and for bustamante on 2nd part, no?

[Clete]

33. That's the best plan.

I hope Californians do that.

[MiltonLeBerle]

26. By rights, every "NO'" vote on part 1-

Should count as a "yes" vote for Davis on Part 2.

[eablair3]

30. the answer to your question is "yes"

yes, you can vote "no" on the recall, and still be able to cast your vote in the recall election for a replacement candidate. This is exactly what Bustamante is campaigning for, so he says. Cruz B says he wants a dual dem win: "No on recall, yes on Bustamante."

If the recall fails, then the "election" is moot, no matter who "wins."

[newsguyatl]

34. thanks for explainer

but is it true that he and davis aren't on speaking terms? and if so, then doesn't he really want the recall to go through and he win?

[eablair3]

35. there seems to be speculation about that

Some dems seem to be hinting that Cruz B has that agenda. I saw someone on TV this morning raise this point exact point to Cruz B. Cruz B said that some of Gray Davis "minions" have made comments about Cruz B, and his real intentions. I believe there were one or two threads on it over in the LBN.