How to fix our urban schools

[zoidberg]

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/07/miller.htm

Basically the proposal is to improve teacher quality in bad schools by increasing teachers' pay by 50%. In exchange, unions would abandon the current pay scale and the dismissal of bad teachers would become much easier. New teachers would make $60,000 a year and the very best would make around $150,000 a year. The article goes into more details and addresses some of the objections. It sounds like a great proposal. Nobody objects to spending more on schools if it will help. The objection comes from the claim (too often valid) that we are just throwing money down a hole when we spend more on schools. This plan's combination of reform and incentives would be the best thing to happen to education in this country.

The guy who wrote this article, Matthew Miller, has a book coming out called The Two Percent Solution: Fixing America's Problems in Ways Liberals and Conservatives Can Love. It seems like a interesting read for anybody not blinded by their own ideology.

[wtmusic]

1. It's a great idea

but you're up against the National Education Association which has an extremely powerful lobby.

Maybe a Dem president can give this idea legs.

on edit: wrong association

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. $150,000

LOL.

Throwing MORE money is not the way to solve the school problem, though breaking the lock the NEA has on education would be a start.

Sure, let's just throw $30 billion at a system that is already failing.

[JanMichael]

3. Why do you hate America?!

Just kidding.

But you know Public Ed in America isn't all bad.

And the concept is more than sound. ie. The rest of the WORLD.

The real question is: Why are we not as capable at Public Schools as, let's say, France? Or better yet: Why do Central European students do even better than Western European students?

Unions? All countries have Unions.

Hmm. How do you feel about Police Unions? They end up defending the worst of all Public creatures, the "Bad Cop"...

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. You made me laugh

Thanks.

No, public ed isn't all bad, it's just bad for the poor. The wealthy communities have it much better. Simply paying teachers more won't fix that.

I agree with other posters that we can't solve the educational problems on their own. The problems of poverty -- especially urban poverty -- go hand in hand with this issue.

As for unions, those like the NEA take on more of the role of an organization that is concerned with self preservation and not education.

No police union in the U.S. has one tenth the power of the NEA. If they did, I might oppose them as well.

[zoidberg]

4. Some administrators make that much in some districts

Why not give that much to the very best teachers out there? As the last line in the article stated, it's insane that some trashmen make more than teachers.

[JanMichael]

6. Dammit! Stop making sense!

Before you know it you'll start saying that all work is valuble and any vast differences are innappropriate.

[MassDem4Life]

24. please define

the very best teachers out there

[wtmusic]

5. It's why it's failing

and where the money is going.

Last I heard starting salary in Los Angeles Unified was $22K, probably well short of what a good plumber makes. For that kind of money you get no talent and no commitment.

[Isome]

14. The ol' throwing money at the problem line...

• When you need roads and highways improved or repaired, you throw money at those tasked with their maintenance. Nonetheless, those roads & highways will continue to fall into disrepair and require more money to fix, because prices go up.
  
  
• When you want bigger, better bombs or bomber planes, you throw money at the military. Nonetheless, those bombs & bomber planes will continue to fall into disrepair and require more money to fix, or become obsolete and new ones will cost more money because prices go up.
  
  
• When you want to restore a dilapidated piece of property, you throw money at people who can restore it. Nonetheless, that property will always require more money to maintain because prices go up.
  
  
• When you need your car fixed, you throw money at the mechanic. Nonetheless, that car will always require more money to maintain because prices go up.
  
  
• When your body fails you in some way, you will definitely throw money at the doctor, the lab tech, the x-ray tech, the anesthetist, the surgeon, etc. Despite your best efforts, your body will age and continue to fail you, in some way, and require more money be spent on either medical care or preventative maintenance, because prices go up.

It's a nonsensical argument that "throwing money" at a problem that is already pitifully underfunded won't help solve it.

[noiretextatique]

20. california used to have a great system

when it was properly funded. i am considering becoming a teacher, but i don't yet have a credential, but I do have a MA in business. with a BA (since i already passed the CBEST) i can get an emergency credential to substitute teach. substitute teachers make approximately $100.00 per day. that's $500.00 per week.
as an accountant, i can make double that easy. sooo...i have to really want to cut my salary in half in order to teach.

the requirements for teachers in california ARE JUST RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as is the starting salary. no wonder they can't get people to teach.

[Blue_Chill]

7. 150k is too high. That is tax money we are talking about.

90k max would be fine with me. Also I'm starting to think the teachers union has become part of the problem.

[zoidberg]

8. Even so, it should be higher than it is now

$150 might be too high, I'm not sure. But in most districts a great teacher doesn't make any more than a crappy teacher. That is a huge problem.

[MassDem4Life]

25. The NEA has

repeatedly fought merit pay, as they have vouchers, teacher competentcy testing, objective standards, standardized testing, etc.

[LizW]

18. Why just teacher's unions?

Most of the time, unions get pretty good support from Democrats. Why is there so much antagonism toward teachers' unions? Is it because they're paid with tax dollars, so all the sudden we're "management"?

Hmmmmmm.;)

[noiretextatique]

21. why is it "too high?"

what does a great teacher deserve? certainly as much as the cretin currently occupying the white house.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

9. Why 'Urban'?

Do not the 'rural' schools need fixing also?

[Sweetpea]

11. Public Schools period could use better teachers.

I went to a rural school that was horrible. The teachers were really not that good. In the 11th grade, I still had not written a paper. Most of the tests were done in multiple choice just to pass this students, I believe now. It was a farmer's town and sometimes I got the feeling that they were just passing the kids to stay around the area.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

15. My point

Which I will admit I did not express very well, is that I dont understand the fixation on 'urban' and the ignoring of the 'rural'.

[zoidberg]

16. Numbers

There are many, many times more kids in urban schools than rural schools. The problems might be as bad, but the urban schools get our attention because that's where the majority of the people are.

[Isome]

10. Bad schools...

aren't bad solely because of low paid teachers. There's also the issue of sub-standard facilities, outdated materials/text books, and the absence of innovative teaching tools and/or methods.

[VermontDem2004]

12. To fix urban schools you have to elect Bush for a second term

I'm just kidding, the problem is usually the kids life. If the kid is going through problems usually family life is really bad. Most of the dysfunctional families are in the urban areas. If the kid is going through a personal crisis then learning new things is usually not the first thing on his/her mind. I know from personal experience, if I got into a bad fight with my mom, that is usually the first thing on my mind the entire day and my test scores were lower. If a kid can grow up with a healthy home and neighborhood environment, he/she should be able to do well in school. Also, you have your other problems, bad teachers but only 1 time in my life I had what I considered a bad teacher.

[noiretextatique]

22. counseling and other services

to address the needs of kids, and the reality of their lives is one answer.

[jmm]

13. I think this would help but

without community development and improvement in the home lives of children I can't see the education system getting much better.

[sandnsea]

19. You have to offer hope

I think the guaranteed tuitions that Edwards is proposing, as well as many states like Alabama, would be better than increasing teacher's salaries. Social servants dependent on tax dollars just don't make alot of money.

If a little kid knows they are going to be able to go to college and truly become whatever they want, then they'll be more likely to put in the effort. And once they get ready to graduate high school, if they choose trade school instead, they'll still know it's real, not an illusionary pipedream. You can get a federal grant just isn't the same as you are guaranteed tuition to college.

Alabama really needs to pass their education bill.

[MassDem4Life]

23. how does simply

raising pay improve the quality of teachers?

Teacher pay has been rising for 20 years, and teacher competentcy has been dropping.