About that online preference poll here last night.

[TheBigGuy]

So it turns out to have been "freeped" by Clark supportes from, I guess, a Clark yahoo group (or so one of the posters on that thread claimed).

I guess it goes to show you how useless these online polls are....of course we all know they are useless, but id expect less freeping going on at DU for some reason.

And also that Clark has some pretty dedicated supporters too, who are willing to show up aand swing an online poll their mans way. The problem is that the Clark crowd doesnt have what Dean has, and thats about a year of organizing under their belt...they dont have the infrastucture in place on the ground to get out the vote....its this organizing that has moved Dean from a dark horse to a real player in the primarys.

Clark is simply too late.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. based on a thread in GD some Clark Supporters post like Repubs

[TheBigGuy]

2. how do you mean?

post like Republicans?

[bpilgrim]

10. maybe he means when they call folks of being NAZI SUPPORTERS

or blame/hate american firsters.

i got bit by one in a wwII thread.

peace

[Ripley]

4. I can't believe some of them are still walking the Earth.

Instead of being 6 feet under.

I think a Dean/Clark ticket would be a winner.

[goobergunch]

5. I concur re: Dean/Clark (n/t)

[PurityOfEssence]

9. Dead on once again, Shocky!

That "would you like some cheese with that whine" was straight out of Limbaughvania; I already noted that in a couple of other threads.

How to spot a rightwinger:

They revel in the humiliation and defeat of others.

They like to rub in defeats to individuals to remind opponents of their inherent inferiority and cow opposition into silence.

"Winning" is the only thing; shouting your opponent into silence is a victory because it shows them as inferior and not possessed of as much true belief.

They identify with their "leader" to such a degree that any offense to the leader is a personal assault.

Their humor derives from embarrassment, desperation or unpopularity of those with whom they disagree or consider inferior.

A freeper's idea of a good time is to go down to skid row and epoxy a quarter to the pavement so they can watch the starving tear up their nails in the futile exercise.

That said, I simply haven't heard enough of his platform to decide, so I'll do some research. Many dynamics do disturb me, above all the "white knight" syndrome.

[Pepperbelly]

3. unless he wins ...

that would seem to undercut your theory substantially.

[TheBigGuy]

6. well..yeah...he would have to really catch fire.

The think about Clark is that he appeals, I supsect, to "regular people"...folks who are not activist types or who are not really partisan.

The problem is getting the word out to these folks, and getting them to vote.

It could be Clark will be the Democratic version of McCain. Lots of promise and buzz early on, but deep-sixed by the party activists over the course of the primary.

[Pepperbelly]

7. i think that Wesley is much smarter than mccain and is playing it far more

intelligently.

The big buzz right now is 'what is he going to do?' He gives that up if he announces.

Plus, Wesley has courted the party powers and even the Clintons are pretty encouraging, being careful to note that any Democrat in the race would be far better than Bush and his evil cabal.

[tjdee]

17. Or, that could be Dean.

Dean has reminded me of McCain from the get go.

I don't know how anyone can really have a concrete opinion about Clark's candidacy when he hasn't even announced yet.

[Kahuna]

23. You'd be surprised. Give the moderates a candidate they like....

and they will vote in the primaries.

And as far as your Clark "freep" theory goes, it doesn't seem to me that the number of new DUers increased that much last night. It's simple arithmetic. How many new DUers joined last night just to "freep" the poll?

[Clete]

8. Why you shouldn't support Clark.

First, Clark is not a Democrat, which means he doesn't believe in all the Democratic principles that define being a Democrat. If he joins the Democratic Party to run for President, he is still a DINO, and don't we already have Lieberman?

Second, if he should become President, some of his cabinet members could be picked from conservatives. Not only that if Supreme Court Justices need to be picked during his term, they could be conservatives as well.

Third, he has no political experience. I want my President to have some background in governing. If he should run as an Independent, then he will have the same effect as Ralph Nader. I for one don't think we need another four years of Bush.

[Pepperbelly]

11. I think that you are wrong on all counts...

First, in Arkansas, Wesley has done everything required to be a Democrat, the same thing that I have done and that is vote in the Democratic Primary. If someone wanted to register as this or that, they could not because there is no mechanism under the law fir it. I have told you this before I believe. You should not persist in repeating something that you know to be untrue. If I have never told you that before, then please forgive me but what I am saying is the Gospel: there is no party registration where Clark lives and votes.

Perosnally, I am sick to death of politicians and their stupid dieological reflex responses to problems. You may disagree but from my standpoint, dogma is dangerous, whether it is conservative or liberal.

What matters more are the principle one embraces for governing.

So far as appointments go, who can say who anyone will appoint? Even Bush appointed a Democrat and Clinton appointed a gop to their cabinets.

[Pastiche423]

12. Very well put, Clete

I agree.

[Dookus]

13. how on earth..

do you know he doesn't believe in the Democratic principles? He's downright progressive if you take the time to read his positions on issues.

Umm.... ANY candidate COULD pick cabinet members from conservatives. Do you have information at all that Clark intends to do this?


As for experience... I could just as easily argue that I want somebody who is going to be commander in chief of the most powerful military force in the history of the world to have some experience with it. And if you don't think being Supreme Allied Commander doesn't involve a bit of politics, you're wrong. No, he hasn't been elected to public office. But I bet it's harder to become SACEUR than, say, Governor of a very small state.

Your post is full of nothing but unfounded speculation.

[TheBigGuy]

14. I'm waiting for him to announce and actually produce a platform.

It is really too early to make decisions based on the issues.

One thing that I think does not disqualify Clark is his being a career military officer.

I do agree a bit with the arguement that he has not held elective office or participated in politics before thus he does not have the relevant political experience.

I do think it is interesting that there are only three candidates with executive experience in government....Graham, Dean, and (yes) Kucinich.

[Pepperbelly]

16. actually ... I think he may well ...

defer to his wife's wishes.

[tjdee]

19. Awww.....man.

Sorry to hear that...hope she comes around.
:(

[chaska]

18. What is it with people...

with no facts, completely ignorant of a person's positions, who go on to threads about candidates they don't support, solely for the purpose of tearing that candidate down?

Coming to DU has been a major disappointment, as regards this issue. I thought only pugs did this kind of thing. I thought we were the good guys. I thought we were the smart ones.

I was wrong. We're no better than them.

[Clete]

21. Oh brother. I am pointing out some things that

should be looked at before jumping on the bandwagon. You might find it has a loose wheel. Anyway, I have made up my mind which candidate I am for and it isn't Clark. Although if by some fluke he becomes the Democratic candidate I will of course vote for him.

This election is about getting rid of Bush and the Republicans in Congress so we can salvage our country from a steady decline. How do you know that some of these candidates aren't being put in the race to divide the left wing voters even more?

[roughsatori]

22. In post #1 NSMA talks about right wing talking points

You illustrated NSMA's point when you wrote: "We're no better than them."

I think it is talk like that from DU supporters that is turning me off to him as a candidate.

I will wait to decide until he, as opposed to his supporters, offers a platform.

[Clete]

20. Because if he did he would be a Democrat already.

I was registered for awhile as an Independent when I became old enough to vote. Why? I was raised in a Republican household and there was a certain amount of brainwashing that happened there. Although I have never registered as a Republican because I rejected their elitist ideas and although I found myself voting for Democratic candidates most of the time, I am sure that I must have voted for propositions that were not Democratic during that period. So I am mistrustful of anyone who suddenly jumps from A to Z. It only changes your label, not your spots. That takes time and study.

[tameszu]

25. Did you even bother to READ Pepperbelly's post about Ark. registration?

The heck?

Clark has only been a nonpartisan citizen for 3 years. If you think this isn't enough experience, fine. But why don't read his positions? They're more liberal than half the current field.

As for whomever upthread said "XX sort of benavior by his supporters is what turns me off him as a candidate," please just stop. Every candidate who has significant support on this board--Clark, Dean, Kerry, Kucinich, and even the odd Edwards guy has supporters who have posted flamebait or flamed someone on these boards. I have done what I can to keep Clarkies civil and restrained--yes some of them overenthusiastic, especially since they don't have a set organization to which to contribute--and there are parallel moderates in each other camp, but this unfounded, unself-critical, holier-than-thou is really too much.

[Kahuna]

24. How do you know what principles Clark has?

Does a person have to be a Democrat to have "democratic principles?"

[WilliamPitt]

15. Paragraphs 1-3 are on point

Last sentence I will put in the 'We'll see' file. Anyone with the CNN presence of Clark can make an instant splash when they jump in.

[plurality]

26. and you think Clark's the only one

re: 'Dean Campaign monitoring of DU'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=195070&mesg_id=195709&page=

Granted it's hearsay, but I wouldn't doubt that all the campaigns have people here watching and posting, in the new world of online politics you'd be a fool not to.

[eleny]

27. One of the reasons why Clark appeals to me...

.... is the experience he's had in his military career culminating in NATO. Bush has made such a mess of our foreign policy and relationships. And then here comes Clark with his experience, tact and ability to articulate. With his brains and savvy, I believe that this is the kind of person we need right now who can undo some of the Bush damage. I like almost all the Dem candidates. But I don't see any of them with the global experience of Clark.

I also like that he's pro choice, wants to halt or roll back the Bush tax cuts, wants to promote leadership in the public school system instead of undermining it. His military background is balanced by his progressive stand on social issues, In my mind, this makes him a centrist who could have very broad appeal in America and give Karl Rove the night sweats. With Clark in office, the concept of being a uniter wouldn't just be a campaign slogan.

Btw, I contributed to the Dean campaign. I espouse many of Kucinich's ideals and was hoping that Biden was going to enter the race. Like the Democratic Party, I'm a mix of many ideas and am willing to compromise to run the R's out of the WH.

Thanks for "listening",
Eleny