I used to think this was a great progressive site.

[Ripley]

Now I'm not so sure. Every day brings more and more of the most blatant of disruptors who are allowed to spew forever. And it appears there are quite a few people who have been here a long time that just now decided to show their true colors.

I'm not talking about "conservative Democrats" who are pro-life, or any other "moderates." I'm not referring to specific positions we may disagree on (to a degree). I'm talking about DUers attacking other DUers with statements like "Why Do You Blame America First?"

When I come to DU and find a sizable number of posts with RW talking points for thread titles and posts, well, it is very frustrating. One thing's for sure, I have seriously re-evaluated my opinion of huge numbers of DUers. I can't take someone seriously as a progressive when they only season their posting with the occasional liberal cliche and the meat of their writings sound exactly like what I would expect to read in the Republican platform or hear on Rush Limbaugh.

I've also noticed a lot of other people have lamented the decline in this site. And clearly the administrators see it (hence their temporary new rules).

What happened?

[arcane1]

1. what happened?

the repubes are scared, and disrupting and confusing us is all they have!

[Ripley]

3. I agree they are scared big time.

But, I am not talking about just the stupid little trolls. I can't understand why some folks I used to respect seem to have turned on us here. I find it fascinating that a republican would spend thousands of hours posting "liberal" posts on a progressive site, to suddenly one day reveal himself. I couldn't spend 5 minutes in Freeperville.

I also miss a lot of great posters...like where's Young Red?

[Friar]

6. I've replaced Young Red

:silly:

[KoKo]

13. OMG.....I would never have known! And, even though we mostly didn't agree

.....I missed "Young Red!" Glad to know about this............

[Ripley]

16. You have, really?

Did you graduate or are you studying to be a Priest now?

[Friar]

20. I was kidding

He was before my time in here. I've never heard of him. Sorry.

[Tinoire]

37. Deleted.

[catpower2000]

41. He was NOT banned...

He posted a thread in the lounge saying he was taking time off from DU because of the constant Catholic bashing. (He is Catholic.) He said he'd be back eventually, but that the tone of DU was so shitty lately that he didn't want to be here for now.

Cat

[Ripley]

46. Thanks for the info.

I rarely go to the lounge, so I missed that.

I feel the same way when south-bashing peaks...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. You Really Believe That There Are Dedicated Republicans

at this site who can reach 1,000 posts and than reveal themselves as a Republican.


I am a huge Miami Dolphins fan. I couldn't dream of hanging around the NY Times Jets board for months and than revealing myself as a Dolphins fan.

It is more likely that you'll find a liberal who has an occasional reactionary view or a reactionary that has an occasional liberal view.

[samsingh]

2. why not just challenge the right wing talking points?

some may be disruptors, others may just have different points of view.

We are one large family and there will be differences.

[VermontDem2004]

4. This place is a paradise

compared to the CSCO Message Board

[ilpostino]

5. Baffling

I'm from that quaint tradition that equates progressive/liberal thinking with openness. I always find it strange when I read messages here from people complaining about a diversity of opinion. If liberalism doesn't stand for diversity--in opinion as well as race and culture--what does it stand for? How can someone be a disruptor for asking, "Why do you blame America first?" If the question bothers you, move on to another thread; otherwise employ your reason and sincerity and answer the damn question. You might enlighten somebody. This constant call for mods and admins to save us from opposing opinions is just the kind of stuff that gives modern liberals an unfortunate reputation for whining.

[Ripley]

8. You clearly don't know the enemy.

If you think the "Blame America First Crowd" doesn't refer to every liberal alive in America. That RW attack talking point is bad enough, but when it is used by someone who claims to be a progressive, it pisses me off. I have rarely "alerted" the mods about someone, and I certainly know how to avoid and ignore threads.

I'm not whining, but making an observation about the degradation of this board. If you don't see it, maybe it is because you haven't been around long enough.

[VermontDem2004]

10. This is not a knock on you or anybody

but I never actually alerted the mods, even someone who clearly was a freeper, I just debate with them. It's actually been awhile since I seen a freeper on here.

[WilliamPitt]

19. ilpostino has been around a while

Don't let post counts fool you.

[Friar]

11. legitimate opposition

is not entirely unwelcome but loaded questions like "Why do you blame America first" are objectionable and are always from wingnuts posing as reasonable people. The don't do that good a job of it though.

[TheBigGuy]

7. It isn't?

It seems pretty progressive to me.

[carolinayellowdog]

9. Scapegoating happened

Hi Ripley,

Saturday morning I was disconsolate over the attacks that were becoming more vicious by the hour, and then fortunately my ISP went down and I couldn't access DU from home for the rest of the weekend. Have said it before but it's worth repeating: whether the issue is candidate vs. candidate, liberals vs. moderates, North vs. South, gender wars, you name it, the dynamic is scapegoating. Choosing targets who are symbolic substitutes for the real enemy, when the latter seems invulnerable or inaccessible.

As to why things seem so rough lately, I'd say we're at a particular point in the electoral cycle where there's a lot of energy floating around and no clear sense of how to direct it. Later on there should be more solidarity here, just as there probably was right after the election theft in the first days of DU.

CYD

[Ripley]

12. Thanks Carolina.

I guess it is August, slow news cycling, primaries a ways off.

It just makes me feel like I need a shower sometimes when I leave DU. I never used to feel that way...there weren't as many hate filled bigoted remarks towards each other.

People don't have enough fodder to attack the repukes that they have to turn on their own?

Just had to vent...

[KoKo]

21. Well.....I go with Carolina YD......and agree.....although "they" say that

with 30,000 DU members our TENT is HUGE........I do wonder sometimes....

It could be that a small town, morphed into a Big City...morphed into the Suburbs.....but yeah!

I get what you are saying.......even though I know that others will have some good "counter-arguments.

Nice to see you Ripley.......you don't know me .....but I remember your name....we may never have "crossed paths" and maybe I really didn't agree with your posts ........way back......but, you have a point.

[Ripley]

25. Nice to see you too.

I know you a little KoKo, I think.

:hi:

[KoKo]

34. yeah, ......I'm kind of here and there......been here awhile remember lots

of neat folks...miss lots.......still here.......staying....thanks.

[Atlant]

45. "If you can't find something to do, I'll find something for you!"

> As to why things seem so rough lately, I'd say we're at a particular point in the
> electoral cycle where there's a lot of energy floating around and no clear sense
> of how to direct it.

At the risk of sounding like someone's mother (though not mine)...

"If you can't find something to do, I'll find something for you!"

There are at least nine Democratic candidates out there who are
working their asses off right now, and ANY of them would
gladly appreciate your help. So take all that free-floating August
energy and dive right in! There are doors to knock on, letters to
write, and phone calls to make; no need to feel bored!

If you'd like to help Howard Dean, contact me. If you'd like to
help another candidate, I'm sure someone else will step forward
to help direct your services.

And if you don't want to work for a specific candidate, start
writing letters-to-the-editor regarding any of the dozens of
outrages posted daily here and in Buzzflash.

Or just go out and play, but get out of the house! :-)

Atlant

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I Am A Born Again Christian

and a Southern Baptist but I don't embrace everything the Southern Baptist Convention endorses so why do I have to embrace everything the left believes.

I can form my own opinions.


I see some people throwing Chomsky and Zinn around and claiming if you don't embrace them you're not a real liberal.

Bullshit...

Alot of this started with the "Was Truman Right To Drop The Bomb" thread.

A couple of posters actually claimed that if you didn't repudiate Truman you were some crazed reactionary or fascist.

[Ripley]

23. I never asked anyone to embrace all of my beliefs.

You seem to have missed my point.

Using well-worn RW talking points we all no the Rush's and Delay's have used for years against fellow DUers is insulting and irritating. How have I denied your ability to form your own opinions by asking that you not call me a commie, pinko, peace-nik, tree-hugging hippie who BLAMES AMERICA FIRST?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Would Be Reluctant To Use Any Of These Epithets

but there are some folks who are reflexively anti-American.

For instance I had a DUer tell me that every war America was involved in was illegitimate except WW2 because we found somebody more evil than ourselves.

[Friar]

33. there are some folks who are reflexively anti-American

Since the Bushies took over that would be the rest of the world, yes? I know it ain't us. We are reflexively pro-American, pro-democracy, pro-freedom etc, etc, etc.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. There's Alot Good About The U.S.

but the Bushes are certainly not one of them.

[Maple]

15. Everyone on here is considered

a disruptor if they deviate from the, now rather ancient, ideology by one iota.

Even when the deviation is necessary.

'Bowling for Columbine' is right.

There's a lot of fear in America.

Even of new approaches.

[WilliamPitt]

17. "Why Do You Blame America First?"

Can you provide links to the threads where stuff like this has happened?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. That was frightening!

Changed America to DU at the last second. And they came up at the same time.

(See next sequential post)

[WilliamPitt]

29. Saw that

:)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. There Were People Who Blamed America For Starting WW2

They made the argument that America provoked Japan by embargoing it.

As one poster said some folks on this site are as reactionary as the Freepers but in another direction.


The sign of a first class intellect is two hold two mutually opposing positions in one's mind and believe both to be true.


I belive just as some misguided right wingers are reflexively pro-American some left wingers are reflexively anti-American.

There is a third way....

[WilliamPitt]

27. "The sign of a first class intellect is to hold two mutually

opposing positions in one's mind and believe both to be true."

Guess that's why I'm a Kerry supporter.

:) *ducking, fleeing*

[Friar]

31. too funny

Mr. Pitt, a classic wit.

[KoKo]

49. Yes.....Will......maybe holding those "two opposing views".....LOL's

Life ain't easy......compromise. Unless you are at the point where one can't ....compromise...

[bpilgrim]

40. ahem, yeah i remember the thread about should we have NUKED japan

and there were PLENTY of examples of FREEPER type arguments.

i got called a nazi sympathizer and a blame/hate america firster in there a few times.

peace

[bpilgrim]

35. check out the long 'should we have nuked japan' thread

i got called a nazi sympathizer :crazy:

here is a link... and i could use ALL the help i can get :hi:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=174804&mesg_id=174804

peace

[WilliamPitt]

39. Ah

and no one hit alert?

[bpilgrim]

42. well it was mostly against me and they were regulars and i like them

to reveal themselves in public :evilgrin:

:hi:

peace

[bpilgrim]

54. -------------------------------------------------- LINK

many examples in here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=174804&mesg_id=174804

little help ;->

peace

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. "Why do you blame DU first?"

Just step over them, Ripley, and they'll eventually go away.

[Ripley]

28. To respond to you and Will...

The thread was not about WWII as the above poster is referring...well, I don't know what that thread said, wasn't there.

I'll try to find the link.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I'm Not A Big Fan Of Name Calling Unless The Targets Are Republicans

[Ripley]

38. Okay.

I didn't get into the WWII thread, so I don't know what happened. I was referring to a thread in LBN today. See below post.

[Ripley]

32. This is the thread I was referring to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=71424&mesg_id=71424


See posts 2 and 4 amongst others.

Edited to include another post number.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. You Busted Jiacinto (LOL)

[IranianDemocrat]

48. I actually like most of Jiacinto's posts.

He brings in sanity when green idiots are having their usual anti-dlc/"lieberman is a republican"/"ralph nader rules"/"america sucks"
circle jerk threads.

[WilliamPitt]

47. Ah. Carlos.

Now it's my turn to suggest that you maybe haven't been here long enough, especially if Carlos Logic still infuriates you. I love the guy, and actually have a lot of respect for a poster who has stuck to his guns through two years of daily beatdowns. But he will make you insane.

[Ripley]

53. I don't respect anyone who uses neocon language

to state his opinion as a liberal. He apparently has no sense of humor either. When someone started a humorous thread about some grafitti on an overpass which used to read "We Support Our Troops" having been changed to read "We Support our Poops" Carlos frieked out. We all hate the soldier now...he claimed. BS.

I've been here long enough to know some of his positions, but that doesn't excuse him from using Bushisms to attack real progressives.

[WilliamPitt]

55. It certainly does excuse him

because at the end of the day, I am mortally sure he will vote on the progressive side of the ballot, no matter his personal beliefs. That is the only admission fee one must pay.

[Ripley]

58. Beg to differ.

I am not mortally sure what anyone on this site will do at the end of the day other than maybe our new politico in Ohio....AWD I believe is his screen name...

[wellstone_democrat]

50. you are not allowed to point to him

I learned that the hard way. He's "old blood" and "coming around" as someone Pm'd me after a scuffle with poster #4 on that thread. His other mantra is the DLC'ish: "too far left" for everything left of the most conservative member of the DLC as far as I can tell.

But, the people who defend Schwartzenegger on DU concern me more. Not the naive group who are sure he's just waiting for his moment to uncloak himself as either a liberal or a Democrat. Those are full of interesting language that match all the fawning articles and commentary of the reliably Bushite press. They like to trot out the phony "his dad was a Nazi!" argument as though that mattered in this election and to tie up the GD forum in particular.

Its a slow time politically---all dressed up and no where to go except in circles I guess. But, you are right, the last few weeks have had a startling number of familiar phrases from the WSJ and other reliably Replicant mouthpieces

[sandnsea]

59. If you can't reach Jiacinto...

you won't reach Middle America, many of whom are Democrats.

He's good for this site, even though he makes you pull your hair out. It's good to have someone who doesn't just follow liberal-left ideology otherwise one would never be forced to think through one's own political philosophies. I'm sure some of my posts sound a little further to the right than other people's too. Sometimes it's important to remember there's a whole country of people who have a right to their opinions too.

[Elidor]

43. Hell, it's STILL a great progressive site

It's easy enough to avoid the flamebait threads, and it's not much trouble to step over the trolls. It does indeed suck when someone whose posts you've read for ages suddenly finds their knee-jerk issue and becomes obnoxious, but we all have our days. Maybe it's the HEAT. Maybe people are bitchy because it's so goddamned HOT outside.

[Robbien]

51. Isn't the title of this thread kinda like the pot calling the kettle black

It knocks DU doesn't it?

[newyawker99]

57. I am locking this thread.

Questions about Democratic Underground policies belong in the "Ask the Administrators" forum. All discussion topics relating to Democratic Underground policies, procedures, enforcement, etc., which are posted outside of the "Ask the Administrators" forum will be locked or deleted.


NYer99
DU Moderator

[curlyred]

56. Carlos? ha!

There have been many weeks when I have had him on ignore because he infuriated me with some pseudo-republican lite bullshit. But then I would take him off, read his stuff, and he'd be making sense again.

Until the next time he pissed me off. :)

[Trajan]

60. Perfectionism ....

AGAIN rears its head .... and demands everything be EXACTLY as expected .....

That isnt how life is: ... expect to be disappointed ... expect to be displeased .... expect to figure everything wrong ....

There is NO WAY to police a generally open forum and maintain absolute ideological consistency ....

I agree with previous posters: ... ATTACK the right wing arguments based on the merits, or lack thereof ....

I argue with right wing NUTS everyday ... I am well aware of their bullshit arguments, and I value every chance to refute every damned lying one of them ....

DONT expect a perfect world: .. and you wont be so disappointed ....