A take of the ten commandments

[redeye]

Let's see fi they are any basis for American law and society:

1. "I am your only god" violates separation of chruch and state.
2. "You shall not have any gods before me" violates freedom of religion.
3. "You shall not make graven images..." violates freedom of speech.
4. "Honor the Sabbath" is not only not obeyed but also violates the principle that the final day of the week is Sunday.
5. "Honor your parents" violates children's rights in this era of parental abuse being taken care of rather than brushed off.
6. "You shall not kill" is based on Hammurabi's code.
7. "You shall not commit adultery" violates Lawrence vs. Texas.
8. "You shall not steal" is based on Hammurabi's code, again.
9. "You shall not bear false witness" is based on Hammurabi's code yet again.
10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his... slave" not only violates the basics of capitalism but also supports slavery and the subjugation of women.

In other words: 7 of the 10 have no place in modern-day society, and 3 are based on Hammurabi's code so it should be posted on public buildings and not the ten commandments.


Flame away.

[Clete]

1. No flames from me.

I have thought this for a long time. These rules are, with the exception of six, eight, and nine not relevant to our modern society.
We really need a new set.

[Sirius_on]

2. Christian flame number 2341

Where are the anti-Islam threads? How about bashing Buddism?


Get on with your life and stop obsessing over something you dont agree with.

[redeye]

3. anti-Christian? Excuse me?

What's anti-Christian about saying that the ten commandments aren't the basis of modern society?

BTW, since you asked, the word "honor" appears 47 times in the Qur'an, thus making it likely that the reason Arabs often kill their daughters if they have premarital sex is not only tradition but also religion.

[Sirius_on]

6. Are all 10 commandments enforced laws?

I think not. 2 of the 10 commandments are actual U.S. laws. So whats being violated in the consitution?

[redeye]

7. When it's posted on public buildigns...

...it means it's government policy. Sorry to tell you, but government policy must be religiously neutral, so it's unconstitutional to post the ten commandments on public buildings, especially courts, not to mention offensive to anyone who doesn't believe in them.

[Sirius_on]

9. Go make a "false Idol" and see if you get arrested

Doubtful.

[Sirius_on]

10. Oh its soooo offensive, I am so sure

I bet you must get all twisted in knots everytime you see it? Get over it, there are many more important battles then crying over a tablet that 85% of the population supports.

[wuushew]

15. This is tyranny of the majority

That is why the constitution protects everyone, not just the 85% of the population.

[redeye]

22. Which denomination are you?

Regardless of which denomination you are, at leas 75% thinks you believe in a false god. Would you support a monument reading "Catholics suck"? "Baptists are liars"? "Joseph Smith was a false prophet"?

[Trajan]

24. Freedom isnt about what 85 % of the people agree with ....

Its the Bill of Rights that defends the rights of MINORITIES ....

Dont you GET IT ? ...

We allow MINORITIES to possess rights, and the ONLY WAY to assure those rights was to embody them in a set of rules with which EVEN THE MAJORITY could not violate ....

The First Amendment was intended to allow FREE religious expression OUTSIDE of the establishment of government ... but NONE within the establishment of government ...

Therefore: ... ALL forms of established government, INCLUDING the courts: CANNOT be used as a stage of religious expression ....

By mounting the Ten Commandments in a goverment building, the Alabama state court has denied the freedom of many NON christian citizens ... This is EXACTLY what the First Amendment was intended to forestall: .. the governmental endorsement of religion ....

[knight_of_the_star]

25. So you are saying

That it is OK for my .2% of the population that I am a PROUD member of to be pushed off to one side and ignored because my religion isn't that of 85% of the population? That what it sounds like to me because if the 10 commandments are being posted by order of a judge on his courthouse, that is called government endorsement of that particular religion, and to me and mine that is a VERY serious issue. Are you saying that a return of a theocracy is not something that should be fought against?

[dweller]

17. which 2?

enlighten this buddhist.

dp

[Sirius_on]

18. Murder and Stealing

Murder and stealing. Adultry can effect your divorse settlements I believe though, although its not illegal to commit.

[dweller]

21. and so based on the plaque you believe should be posted on the walls

of US court system, any US soldier who has taken a life in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Serbia...(pick a country in the world)
should be tried in those courts, along with those implicit in the ordering of the death.

And once the Iraqi invasion is over, the oil will be left with the countries' inhabitants to do with it, charge for it, distribute it as they wish? Otherwise, the US would be 'stealing' it from that country by controlling/shipping/profiting, etc and then therefore would be punishable by US laws?

Because these 2 moral (of the 10) human understandings are accepted by enlightened individuals the world over are also recognized by US law does not give christians a copyright of them.
Some of us don't need to read the writing on the wall. It's engraved in our mindset. If you need the reminder, post it in your own home or bedroom. No need to force it on the rest of us who have 'got it' already.

dp

[wuushew]

4. Where are the right-wing islamic judges disobeying the constitution

?

[opiate69]

5. Anti-Islam? Bash Buddhism???

As soon as some back-water blowhard judge sneaks a 6000 pound monument to the Koran into his court in the middle of the night, and then commits contempt of court by refusing to remove it, we'll talk about your suggestion. Until then, get over your misperception of poor innocent little christians being subjugated.

[Sirius_on]

8. Boo Hoo

Waaa!!!! I cant take those evil commandments!!! I have no tolerance for anything I dont agree with!!! Waaa!!!


;(;(;(;(;(;(;(;(;(;(

I gave you one sad face for each commandment.

I repeat. 2 of the 10 commandments are enforced laws. Get over it.

[Lars39]

11. Doesn't matter if they are enforced law or not.

Posting them under any religion on any government building is endorsement.

[opiate69]

13. 2 of the 10 commandments are enforced laws.

Fine... then let me go into the Alabama court house with an 8 pound sledge hammer and "remove" the other 8 which have nothing to do with our laws. OF course, you do realize that you are the one being a crying little bitch. Posting the 10 commandments on government property is a clear-cut violation of our constitution, and you are crying and whining about keeping them there simply because you don't agree with the law of the land.

[Sirius_on]

16. That would be vandalism

Please explain to me what damage they actually cause. Please omit the B.S about being offensive too. I don't buy it for a minute.

[Samuraimad]

14. This is what I call an intellegent exchange

of ideas.
I guess the seperatin clause is now targeted for revisionism.

[kimchi]

19. Exactly, that is the point.

Only 2 of them are laws, the rest are extraneous to the judicial system. Therefore, just 2, not ten, can be posted. And here I've been going at this from the separation of church and state angle when I should have been using the common sense angle.

The issue is not whether we agree with the commandments, or whether they are evil. The issue is in their relevance as CURRENT laws, and sorry, they just don't pass muster. Thanks for reframing the debate and making me think about this some more.

(And I am sorry if I've intruded on yall's little spar.)

Peace.

[Sirius_on]

20. Does it really effect the court itself?

Do the ten commandments effect the court system or anything legal at all? No, they dont. Do the judges ever use the commandments to administer law? No they dont.

In fact the 10 commandments are about as important as any painting or decoration hung inside the court itself.

Is church and state seperation a constitutional law? Yes. Do the ten commandments really effect that? Not really. They are of no importance in legal proceedings or anything for that matter.


Your fight is a waste of time. Prayer in school? I'll give you that one. No one should be forced to pray.

[opiate69]

26. You destroy your own argument...

"They are of no importance in legal proceedings or anything for that matter."

Then there is no valid reason for this asshole judge to post them, if they are really of no importance. Especially considering the dislplay has been ruled to violate constitutional law. Thanks for clearing that up, and I hope to see you on the protest lines against Judge Moore now.

[rasputin1952]

12. You must take into consideration ...

that much was lost in translation.

For instance, "Thou shalt not kill", should actually read, "Thou shalt not murder". Although killing and murder have the same net result, the death of someone, they are immensly different. Murder is premeditated and specifically for gain of some sort. Killing can be done while protecting life, limb or property. Killing is primarily defensive, while murder is always offensive.

As for "Honor thy parents"; honor means more than 'obey'. You can also honor your parents by living a lifestyle that emulates what they taught you about social values, etc. How you live your life, generally reflects the lessons you've learned, most of which, in most instances, come from ones parents.

There are other things that can be extrapolated as well. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", can be seen as to hold true to an ideal, and no other ideology can can go beyond that primary ideal, such as truth, or knowledge.

Many things in the Bible can be used today as compasses or guides. To dismiss things without researching them fully, is a flaw we all have to deal with. Love thy neighbor as thyself, should that be thrown out too? Feed the poor, clothe the naked and help house the homeless; should we cast these Biblical notions out as well?

Gleen the good you can from many sources, but avoid making obtuse statements, they can haunt you.

[Trajan]

23. Rings the church bells ....

I totally agree with a Redeye thread post ! ....

DAMN boy ! ... you have GOT it ! ....

EVERY point is absolutely honest and true ....

Kudos ....