About the candidate bashing threads.

[Ohio Dem]

First of all, I'm undecided. My mind is pretty open. I've ruled against a few of the candidates, but I'm not saying which ones. Why aren't I sharing this? Because it won't matter to those who have made up there minds, and won't make much of a difference to those that haven't. 'Nuff said.

But when I see a Dean-bashing thread from, say a Kerry supporter, it actually makes me have a better view of Dean. And vice-versa. If a known Dean supporter bashes Kerry, then my opinion of Kerry improves. And I don't think I'm the only one.

My question is this: Why the bashing threads? Don't you know that bashing a candidate only serves to bolster a supporter of that candidate's resolve? And it doesn't win anyone here over, either. Thinking people, which most on the DU are, aren't swayed that much by straight bashing. You may even be defeating your own purpose. You are with me, anyway.

I'd much rather see more of the "I like so and so because . . ." threads. I want to know more about what these candidates think and I want to know more about the record of each one. These threads are much more impressive, and much more useful to me. And when a supporter of a different candidate bashes on these threads, I view it as a form of disruption. Don't you have anything good to say about your own candidate? Do you have to bash another candidate to further your agenda? That's what it looks like to me.

So, in closing, two things. I'm not accusing all supporters of candidates of bashing. I know not everyone here engages in it. Second, I used the examples of Dean and Kerry as . . . examples. Supporters of all the candidates are guilty of this, for the most part.

My advice, which I know you will ignore? Stop the bashing. It doesn't do your candidate any good.

[Clete]

1. We should be posting the strengths of our Democratic

candidate, not bashing the others. Only one will be the candidate and we will have to vote for that one even if it's not our favorite.

[Ohio Dem]

3. My point exactly.

And you said it with so fewer words.

[efhmc]

2. I will vote for any Dem. I will support any but Lieberman because he is

a waste of money and a lost cause. I like to hear what make a candidate "the one" for others. I won't and don't waste my time on the bashing. I want someone to WIN and I'll love him or her (yeah, right)forever.

[Clete]

4. I think Joe will be eliminated early in the game.

[efhmc]

5. I wish that he would bow out now because generally he does Dem no

good at all.

[SweetZombieJesus]

6. I'm sorry, call it bias if you must, but I've never seen a Dean supporter

say anything as bad about the other candidates as the bullshit slung at our candidate. I've never seen a Dean supporter compare Kucinich supporters to Nazis, and I've certainly never seen Dean supporters accuse Kerry of something as outrageous and ridiculous as committing war crimes, but some Kerry supporters have no compunctions about branding Dean an abortionist, a draft dodger, a "used car salesman" (my personal favorite), or any other number of stupid, unfounded ad hominem attacks.

A lot of Dean supporters, myself included, feel like we're unfairly targeted, and I think that feeling is justified.

[Ohio Dem]

7. You may be right.

I didn't do a search or anything. I just see a lot of bashing. If it's true that Dean supporters have done none of it, I'm sorry. I think that's reaching, though.

[SweetZombieJesus]

10. No no, there are some Dean supporters who go off the edge

I won't pretend for a second that there aren't Dean supporters who are guilty of foundless bashing, but I've never seen any Dean supporter say anything as ridiculous as the Kucinich supporter who likened us to concentration camp officers.

[Ohio Dem]

12. Point taken.

Yeah, I've seen some pretty nasty things said about Dean here. You make a good point. I jumped to the wrong conclusion when I read your earlier post.

[Clete]

8. If the disruptors are in fact from the other camp,

then it makes me believe that Dean has them scared. They will fling everything they can hoping something will stick.

[salin]

16. it even got so bad that an "undecided"

who wouldn't agree that Dean is essentially evil, was accused of being comparable to a nazi guard who was happy to be getting promoted.

It is out of control.

There were some bad moments early on where different candidates were targeted (Kerry had to deal with some pretty low and ugly blow early on). Poor Lieberman can't catch a break here - and when it gets going some of the vitriol goes Far Over the line (Lieberman would have turned Ann Frank over to the Nazi's?)

Discourse, imo, has really deteriorated.

[Blue-Jay]

9. Well said, Ohio Dem!

I skim the bashing threads at best. Here's what it comes down to: I'll vote for "my guy" in the primaries, based on my best judgement. I won't post my current favorite either, as I've been known to change my mind. Whoever gets the Democratic nod will still get my full support, however.

(one thing I like about Ohioans is their ability to look at things rationally, but maybe I'm a little biased...) ;)

[Ohio Dem]

11. That's not bias, my friend. Just the way it is.

Okay, that might not be entirely true. :evilgrin:

[NewJerseyDem]

13. And it is only August

Imagine how bad this will be in January!!!! Hopefully the winner is determined early and by March we can focus on uniting against Bush.

[Ohio Dem]

15. You are right. And what will the supporters of candidates who aren't

nominated do when another candidate gets the nod? Continue bashing? Support the candidate? How can you with a straight face support one that you bashed just months earlier? That's like GHWB calling Reagan's trickle down theory "voodoo economics" and then calling for trickle down when he became the VP candidate.

I'm glad it's only a relatively small group of people here. But bashers, aren't you giving Freeper lurkers ammo? Especially when the bashed gets nominated? And the person nominated will have been bashed here. All the candidates have been bashed. Stop giving Republicans talking points! Especially after the nomination.

[msanger]

14. cultural evolution

explains alot of what happens in politics.

Think of people, cultures and politics as evolving. We start out as being only for oursevles (cavemen) then evolove to being for our small group (family or clan) then maybe being for a larger group (state or race or religion.)

In each case, evolution and human development consists of moving beyond the current "group" that you identify with to a slightly larger group. Going beyond states rights to nations, beyond nations to united nations.
Going beyond white power or black power to people power.

Bush and his folks are pushing us back towards an "us versus them" my group versus your group type of thinking. YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAISNT US.

WHen we start fighting (as opposed to arguing) with each ohter on this board, we are falling into bush's game of regressive politics.

When we support our candidate and urge others to support theirs, we are growing into progressive politics.

One way to defeat bush is to defeat his push towards regressive, divisive politics. It means finding ways to create common bonds - with other DUers, with republicans, with freepers, and even (god forbid) with that blond woman people seem to love to hate.

Hatred never by hatred ceases. Hatred cease by love alone.
Turn the other cheek.
You are either with us or against us.

take your pick.

[Ohio Dem]

17. Nice post.

Thanks for posting it. It is very germaine to what this thread is all about. I hadn't looked at it that way before, but what you say makes perfect sense.

[xray s]

18. I wish we would be debating isues instead of personalities

I really have ignored the candidate threads because, in general, they are mostly heat with little light.

What I want to know is who has the best plan to fix the health insurance crisis and cover all Americans, so never again will someone in this country face bankruptcy because of a serious illness, or have to choose between food, paying the rent or medical care (and it is NOT just senior citizens that have to make these choices).

I also want to know who has the best plan to get our troops out of the shooting galery our inept president has put them in, without turning the entire mid-east into an anarchtic breeding ground for 1000's more Osamas.

I want to know who has the best vision for our future. Who will defend our rights. Who has the best ideas for fairly taxing people according to their ability to pay.

I want some answers, and they are hard to come by here.

This election is too important to be driven by sound bites, catch phrases and spin. Its too important to be driven by attack ads and politics as usual.

We need substance. The American people are starving for it. The candidate that provides it will win in a cake walk, because all Bush has is fear to run on, and people are getting tired of being afraid.

So I will check the candidates web-sites, watch their tv appearences and debates, and hope at least one has the right answers. If you can help, post things at DU. Otherwise it's a waste of time bashing our guys. Rove will do that next year. This year its up to us to pick the one who can lead this country to a new place.

[Ohio Dem]

20. Hear hear!!!

Well said.

[VermontDem2004]

19. I see alot of "well said" "nice post"

in threads like this but will it change things? No. I actually get an unfavorable opinion of Clark when one of his supporters attacks a Dean supporter and I know someone from my camp will go over the edge, but I am getting an unfavorable opinion on a candidate even though I agreed with everything he has said. I try not to attack anyone and I don't think you can find a post in which I did.

[Ohio Dem]

21. Here's one.

And I didn't have to look very hard.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=197041#197051

Bashing Clark supporters, and then claiming never to do such a thing? Please.