German rightwinger loses job in scandal (smears mayor /gay)

[Kellanved]

As there have been a few discussions about gay conservatives here lately I thought this might interest you. This scandal is on daily soap level; just imagine a Gouvernor having an affair with a cabinet member. A liberal mayor would have had to resign by now. The last line in the Article is BS BTW (or missing a "conservative") - Berlin has an openly gay mayor and nobody outside the conservative party has a problem with it. Most Hamburgers are at least as open-minded IMHO.


--snip
Germany's best-known rightwing populist politician, once dubbed Judge Merciless, was sacked on Tuesday in a scandal involving irregular business practices and allegations of homosexuality.
...
Mr Schill, who shot to fame in Germany in 2001 when his tiny law-and-order party won 19 per cent of the vote in city-state elections, said he would withdraw from politics.
A former judge, he was known for his hardline rulings and later, his rightwing views on immigration and inner city crime. His sacking could lead to new elections.
...

The mayor said Mr Schill had warned he would claim Mr Beust was in a relationship with justice minister Roger Kusch, and that Mr Kusch had been appointed because of this relation- ship.
Mr Beust denied having a homosexual relationship with Mr Kusch.

Mr Schill denied blackmail but admitted complaining about Mr Kusch's appointment. Homosexuality is still a sensitive issue in Germany, especially among politicians.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059479141726

[LeftCoast]

1. Excellent, so what do you think the odds are of the SPD

winning Hamburg back and (then) indirectly regaining the Upper House?

[Kellanved]

2. winning the upper house: zero

The headline made my morning; this state Gouvernment was a disgrace.

To your question:
I'm not a Hamburger, but last I heard most didn't like the work done by the new Gouvernment (Some say they only changed three things: they ordered the police to check colored people, they made the police uniforms blue and they cut money for schools).

I wouldn't be suprised by a SPD-led great coalition without new elections though.

For the upper house it's grim: the conservative majority can't be tripped by one state alone. The former left stronghold Hesse has fallen to the conservatives (to the neo-con and Bush-Fan Koch) and the next election is in Bavaria. Snowball's chances in hell there.

[TheBigGuy]

3. Its really suprising how Hesse has moved right.

The SPD used to be fairly reliable there pretty much through the postwar era.

I also think the first "Red-Green Coalition" was in Hesse...which is where Fischer got into politics.

[Kellanved]

4. it amazes me every time

Hessians were known to be proud to be "multicultural". Then a right-winger makes a xenophobic campaign, the liberals don't know how to react and *poof* the neo-con wins the election (the last polls predicted a clear victory for the liberal SPD).

Four years later he wins the absolute majority. What is his secret?
His policy is pretty simple: behave statesman-like and promote fiscally-conservative policy while on TV; when no camera is near: spend so much that the deficit of Hesse alone drags the federal debt in the "forbidden zone" over 3%. (kinda complicated: Germany is a federal State much like the US; the EU doesn't know Federations and handles the Federal Gouvernment and states as being "one".)
Claim responsibility for everything positive and blame the federal Gouvernment for everything else.

Koch:

[LeftCoast]

5. Not up on Hessisch politics

but if the CDU has an absolute majority there, and they're running such a massive deficit, isn't the electorate mad and holding the CDU responsible?

[Kellanved]

6. I don't know how he does it

Hessians believe that the federal Government is responsible for the debt; most don't even know about it. Even clear breakings of promises are hardly noted in the local hesse media (almost doubling the number of clerks employed by the state Government while promising to cut them). The scandals he has weathered are beyond what I have believed possible outside of Bavaria
(lying to the state Parliament, lying to the federal Parliament, bullying the supreme court to a decision, appointing party-bound judges to the state supreme court, canceling the unspoken "equal time" agreement, anti-Semitic remarks (he said rich are handled by the tax-reform as Jews were handled by the third-reich), his father being a Nazi living under a false name (*rumor*), his money being identical to the Nazi treasury (*rumor*), close connections to former Nazis in and outside the CDU (*no rumor*), literally letting loose the dogs against Union members demonstrating in front of the state chancellery, corruption, selling out state assets below worth, reckless deregulation, ...)

The former President Weizäcker (a conservative, but one I respect) said : "Wenn Roland Koch Kanzler wird, wandere ich aus. Aber ich muß nicht auswander, da Roland Koch nicht Kanzler werden wird." = "If Roland Koch becomes Chancellor I'll emigrate. But I won't emigrate, as Koch won't become Chancellor."

The opposition is in total disarray.

To make things worse the rules for local elections were changed; resulting in the most complicated ballots ever. Resulting in many invalid ballots.
Example (from the town Kassel; the ones for Frankfurt were far larger)
http://www.landkreiskassel.de/politik/wahlen/Stimm-om.pdf

[LeftCoast]

9. Sounds like US election/media traits are coming across to Germany

Thanks for that sample ballot. I know the German two-vote system makes things more complicated, but I couldn't make heads or tails of the sample. :) I've been to Kassel. I thought it was in southernmost Niedersachsen though. I guess Goettingen is the southernmost.

[Kellanved]

10. the ballot was for local elections

In federal/state Elections and the local elections outside the conservative states it is still the two vote sytem, not the 81+ vote system.

[LeftCoast]

12. Can you give me a short synopsis of how the local election works?

If it's not the two-vote system, I'd guess it should be one vote for the party of your choice, but that (1st) ballot looked more complex than that.

[Kellanved]

14. being Hessian no more it is difficult;

There are two concepts combined : "Kummulieren" and "Panaschieren".
You have as many votes, as there are seats in the local Parliament.

-You can spend up to 3 votes on a single list candidate.
-you can can cross out as many candidates from your ballot as you like
-you can give all your remaining votes to a Party/list, excluding candidates you have crossed out.

[LeftCoast]

15. That is pretty complex

I'd love to be able to vote in a system like that, but it's probably not that practical for most voters.

Thanks for the info!

[Kellanved]

17. it sounds cool

But:
-it leads to many parties in the parliament and thus to unstable coalitions.

-It invalidates the ballots of many people (not to mention: In local elections all resident EU-citizens are allowed to vote - giving them a harder time than reasonable). Just imagine : you have started with 200 votes - keeping track of the number already spent is tough; being one short or one over invalidates your ballot.

-it lowers participation in favour of the conservative party

-the difficult counting makes fraud much more likely (several cases already)

...

[TheBigGuy]

20. Unstable coalitions and a plethora of partys

...that was, I recall, one of the flaws of the Weimar Republic system.

But I can see the "long ballot" as a surefire way to supress voter turnout. I cant imagine keeping track of 200 votes, and having to use them all, in one ballot.

Voters would get confused and stop voting.

[TheBigGuy]

19. I was looking at the party list on the 'Zweit Stimme"...wow!

Did I read that right...the "Gray Panthers"? and the "Animal Protection Party"?

It looks like alot more partys qualify to be on the ballot than in US elections.

[Kellanved]

21. Yes

And the Larouche Party, the Bible Party , the Schill Party (:-) ) ...

There were more parties in the 98 Elections though (for example the APPD; goal: get enough votes to gain federal campaign funding. Organize a beer festival with the money.)

[TheBigGuy]

16. its interesting that Kassel, & Frankfurt, used to be SPD.

I seem to recall that Kassel was heavily SPD at one point.

[Kellanved]

18. both are lost

Frankfurt is gouverned by a all-party coalition led by the conservatives; Kassel has a conservative mayor as well.

At least the SPD won all but a few hessian seats in the federal elections.

[Dirk39]

7. I'm so happy happy happy...

that we got rid of this asshole. I live in Hamburg.

"Homosexuality is still a sensitive issue in Germany, especially among politicians." I rather tend to believe the opposite. Our Mayor is a conservative. Many knew before that he is gay, but he didn't want the press to write about it, he never "admitted" that he's gay, but he never stated the opposite. The mayor of Berlin, who's gay too, is very prominent all over Germany for stating before he was elected: "I'm gay and it's o.k. that way." Even advertisers copied this slogan, 'cause it was so popular then. Now Mr. Ole von Beust at least had the courage to do the same. And for a right-wing conservative party, this means a lot. If they would be afraid of losing lots of voters, because of this, he wouldn't have done this. At least this is a good sign, although one more time, I really wonder about how many homosexuals are far far right. The guy, he was supposed to have a relationship with and who only got his job because of that relationship, still has his job as a senator for justice, and he is a hardcore rightwinger. Very incompetent too.
It was a big scandal, when he visited Joe Arpaio in the USA.
But today I'm just happy happy happy that this fashist asshole Shill was fired.
There will be no new election: the far right-wingers had 19%, the CDU (our repukes) had the worst result in their history (20 something%), and the CDU just used the chance of a coalition with the right-wingers to gain power. If they would allow a new election, they would loose. I guess this far-right party would only gain about 5% if at all.
And I wouldn't even be happy if the greens and the social-democrats would come to power again. They are no alternative. And they were even responsible for the right-wingers wining the election, 'cause they offered no alternative, just repukes-lite.
Greetings from Germany,
Dirk

[Kellanved]

8. we wore the T-shirts

"Ich bin schwul und das ist auch gut so." = "I'm gay and it's o.k. that way." as it was his official slogan ( even the URL www.ich-bin-schwul-und-das-ist-auch-gut-so.de was used). Wowereit is a great mayor (his cabinet is another story) and a real cool guy (I spoke with him several times), so I had no problem with it.

[Dirk39]

11. Hey Kellanved!

I don't know, if he's a great mayor. I saw him with a t-shirt: Front-> I'm gay...., Back: and Berlin is bancrupt!...
But to come back to Beust: just imagine a republican mayor from one of the big cities in the USA would openly claim, that he is gay! Beust wasn't like Wowereit, but he never lied about it and for a repuke, he's rather liberal.
But it was such a nightmare, to live in one of the most liberal cities of the world like Hamburg and have someone like Schill in the senat. O.K. I admit it, 'cause I don't have patriotic feelings at all, at least I have to be some kind of local-patriot.
But if I reconsider Wowereit: just imagine the democratic mayor of a big american city with a T-Shirt like Wowereits' on ST-Christophers-Day: I'm gay and New York is broken...

Viele Grüsse,
Dirk

[Kellanved]

13. Hamburg is more liberal

I admit it.
Berlin is very liberal compared to other German cities, but Hamburg is even more so (as a native Frankfurter I have no problems saying so).
I am Party-bound and will defend my party whenever possible - in the case of the the past Berlin great coalition I feel that it isn't.
The Berlin SPD ( and the CDU) is still paralyzed in it's pre-reunification free-for-all attitude. Politicians from the eastern districts are almost excluded from offices and the level of corruption (mostly coverup for the mind-boggling level of pre-unification corruption) is inacceptable. Wowereit is as clean as possible for a west-Berlin politician, but he has no real power within the party. Strieder, Momper, Böger; the party powerhouses should be thrown out IMHO.