I heard the dreaded "d" word mentioned tonight

[CatWoman]

"d" for "draft".

More Reserve units are being called up for duty in Iraq.

With over 70% of our forces already deployed, I see the the draft reinstated in the very near future.

[Rick Myers]

1. Yikes!!!

I heard McCaffery say 73% of our active divisions are deployed! Goddess help us!!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

77. 73% - who the hell is protecting our country???

crazy

[arcane1]

2. if we end up with a draft...

then I'll be much more inclined to believe that mass graves story

[maggrwaggr]

63. That would wake up the sheeple

I think it's great. It would wake everybody up and make everyone realize what America is doing, that we're all complicit in this bullshit.

And Bush would be out lickety split

[goobergunch]

3. The d-word is tied in with the m-word for me...

move, as in out of the country.

See the age thread if you want to know why.

[FubarFly]

15. It would horrible if you were drafted.

I don't envy your position. I hope things work out for you.

Good luck.

[Cha]

17. I know goober I remember you are young! If my son were

young I would be worried, too! He's 36 now but I am concerned for other People's sons, too! Like Mari's!

[PaDUer]

37. I also have sons

of that age..no friggin way are they going..

[revcarol]

18. Contact Central Committee of Conscientious Objectors NOW,

not tomorrow, not next week, not when the draft appears sure for passage , NOW!!

1515 Cherry Street, Philadelphia, PA 19102
Tel: [phone]; Toll free:1-800-NOJROTC
GI rights hotline: [phone]
Website:www.objector.org

"The CCCO promotes individual and collective resistance to war and preparations for war. It has been active since 1948, helping people seek discharge from active military service on grounds of conscientious objection, providing information and assistance to those faced with a military draft, enlistment obligations, and registration."

And BTW, there are COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS available for conscientious objectors from the Friends(Quakers!!) Ask them about this when you call!!

[maveric]

28. I have 3 sons ages 21, 18, 13.

My oldest is in school(SDSU)but will graduate next year. My 18 yr old will not be attending college and would be prime pickens.

I live in San Diego, 10 miles from the border, and would not hesitate to move my boys to TJ.

I will not let bu$h & co. take my boys!

[Cthulu_2004]

46. Hint on avoiding the draft:

Have them "come out".

[maveric]

53. I've allready suggested that to them.

My oldest has no problem with that but my homophobic 18 yr old says he wont do it.
He may change his mind if the time comes.

[TahitiNut]

59. View it as a "learning experience".

:eyes:

[PATRICK]

4. Wow, is there anything

ANYTHING at all we will permitted to present as an election issue? They already have said they will chase draft dogers(non-white poor slobs) into Canada.

[PaDUer]

39. People w/ $$$

will all have their kids safely tucked away..Isn't it interesting that in the past 15-20yrs, NOT one of those honchos kids in DC were in the service??!!! Think they should take those two from the WH. Do you think they're going to draft females?-I highly doubt it.

[greekspeak]

5. feh...americans won't go for it

OK, so they lambast "peaceniks" as unpatriotic. but it is a whole other damn burrito to actually force people's kids to go over there and fight. That would cause an outrage the likes of which KKKarl et.al. could never spin.

[Dhalgren]

58. You may be right.

But I wonder what the Emperor will do if he can't get the votes to reinstate the draft? Will he just openly hire mercs? Will congress and the people approve of creating an American Foriegn Legion full of blood-thirsty miscreants who get paid by the "kill"? I just can't get my mind around this image and how the American people will sublimate it.

[Clete]

6. Will Jenna and Barbara get some kind of deferment?

You think?

[Catch22Dem]

9. Women aren't eligible for the draft

[Clete]

12. That's too bad.

[oasis]

48. What about Jebbie's "I don't hang out with other latinos" son?

[Clete]

65. If they fit the profile of a draftee they should all go.

No exceptions.

[polmaven]

16. Women WEREN'T eligible for the draft.

If it is reinstated, it may well be a whole new ballgame.

[OrdinaryTa]

24. No Way

Women will NEVER be drafted. Ain't gonna happen. No way.

[CatWoman]

26. What makes you so sure?

we live in strange times, my friend :scared:

[arcos]

43. If they are not, they should be...

I few decades ago, I understand it wasn't, but in the 21st century there should be no differences like this one.

[polmaven]

80. I agree with you

If the draft is reinstated, women should be included. We cannot achieve full equality unless we are truly equal, in the good and the bad.

[CatWoman]

81. Ditto!!!!

[Patriot_Spear]

7. Jesus, I almost re-upped in 99...

...what the hell was I thinking.

[Cha]

19. You were thinking Peace and Properity!

Little did we know what lie ahead.

[liberalmuse]

21. Me too...

Shit! I read an article about a guy who thought he was out of the military, but he got a letter calling him to active duty. He was supposedly discharged in '99 and thought his IRR committment was through. Should some of us be worried? I was an NBC NCO. I have a feeling the Bushies will try anything to avoid a draft until they can steal a second term. (which WON'T happen!)

[Patriot_Spear]

27. The IRR commitment is pretty much two years.

I have a buddy who was a Chem O in an artillery unit during the first Gulf War- about six months ago he received a real nice letter form our mutaul uncle inviting him back.

I suppose it was the way he said 'fuck you' that convinced them he wouldn't be returning voluntarily.

Edit: Typo

[Walt Starr]

62. IRR commitments are for six years total

Longer if you were an officer.

And stop gap put the kabash on ending at six years.

[Walt Starr]

60. I hate to be the bearer of bad news

If you were an NBC NCO and you got out in '99, you will be called up prior to a draft.

Right now, only a few select officers in the IRR have been called. Your IRR commitment is definitely not up. Usually these last a minimum of 6 years.

I have a former marine who works for me. His IRR hitch was due to be up in February. It was extended an additional year under the stop-gap program. His specialty involved anti-missile radar and there are about 28 people in the Corps qualified to do the job.

Sorry, but they won't even be to the very bottom of the barrel scrapings before they call you with your specialty, and they will be scraping the bottom of the barrel before they reinstate the draft.

BTW, draft boards across the country have been gearing up for a reinstatement for the past year.

[Brazosboomer]

8. Interesting

My veteran son (8 years under Clinton - a Great Commander in Chief) says that reinstatement of the draft is absoulte proof that the last Presidental election was rigged. Bush knows he can't be re-elected with a draft looming over his head. So if there's a draft, that means Bush Co. are SURE they can rig the next election, too.

There's no way country club Republicans are going to risk their sons and daughters going to war.

[madrchsod]

11. cc rethugs didn`t go.

if they did they volenteered or national guard. most became behind the lines officers ,while some did see combat.
edit.. i mean during vietnam...

[Cha]

20. YOur son has a strong point there! It's gotta be our mission

to do everything possible to make sure they can't get away with their
rigging schemes. :grr:

[Oracle]

22. They have already rigged Florida, Georgia, Texas and going...

After California...

How many electoral votes is that already?

[PaDUer]

41. They rigged the last

governor's election..There were many states that were, and still are, SHOCKED that those people got in...Utah was another odd..I had the states on my computer, but lost everything when it went down. They knew who they could work with and who they couldn't...They're getting away with anything and everything they do. They're letting people go through the motion of voting, but in reality, the votes are already counted ahead of time--how THEY want!

[madrchsod]

10. all hell will break loose

if they do this..and remember rummy said all those blacks and poor white kids weren`t any good in nam...yup they weren`t any good..but they gave their lives..not like the flyboy coward in the whitehouse. a deserter reinstating the draft....

[Ein]

13. Hello Canada n/t

[RainDog]

14. the frat boy I used to work with

who just graduated, was all for the invasion. so I said, if you support this action so much, why don't you enlist and get your head blown off?

he didn't, btw.

but every able man in this country who supports this invasion should, imo, go join up right now and put his life where his mouth is.

It makes me sick to hear these pampered biz school boys talk up war while they make sure they'll never have to fight it.

Gen. Butler had the right idea. he thought that before we could go to war, all the corporations had to agree to the same salaries, across the board, as all the soldiers make, and that a plebesite of men of draft age should be the ones to decide if it was a just war.

[SharonAnn]

38. And those men who are too old or not able should send

their sons, grandsons, nephews, brothers, cousins, etc.

[sistersofmercy]

23. Bush co has been trying to get other countries to contribute troops..

pretty much to no avail. Sure some countries have been sending token troops like say a 1000 or so. When the arab countries in the region were ask to contribute troops for "peacekeeping" purposes, it was a resounding NO. Turkey is promising about 10,000 if, well don't know what that if is. So I'm not surprise to hear this, in fact if it's looked at logically they simply don't have enough troops to guard the borders, oil pipelines, waterlines, UN bldgs etc. So once again we have more misinformation compliments of Bush Co.

[alfredo]

67. they wouldn't commit troops because Bush didn't want to

share the spoils.

[Julien Sorel]

25. A draft would be a self-imposed political TET Offensive.

It isn't happening until after the election.

[eleny]

32. The draft would ensure...

... a Dem victory next year.

I'm 56 and well remember the Vietnam era. :hippie:

Every generation is challenged. And I believe that many young Americans would stand up and fight if the reasons were just and America was in true danger.

But if people think things were hot back in my day, they haven't seen anything until we have a draft in this day. Young people are so savvy and communications are so well developed, I just know you all would prune the Bush pronto.

:kick:

[bluestateguy]

34. The draft

All people would have to do would be to smoke pot before their physical: fail the physical, they don't get drafted. The end.

[PaDUer]

44. Are you certain of that?

when's the last time you honestly KNEW someone was not taken for smoking pot? I wouldn't put it past this idiots to take those people and jail them or rehab them....

[Ouabache]

70. Eat lots of sugar & swallow a little aluminum foil & drink hot coffee

Get your blood sugar way up before they take a blood sample.
Ummmh, Donuts !

I heard on a stomach x-ray that aluminum foil shows up as an ulcer.
Tell them you have ulcers.

Not sure how you could do it at an army physical, but if you drink HOT coffee and hold it in your mouth before your temp is taken I guarantee you won't be 98.6. HOT water could do the trick as well.
I worked in a factory where a guy would do that, go to the nurse to get his temp taken and then be excused for the day for running a temp.

For all of these you may have to go back to be checked again, but then just do it again.

These are all old stories I heard, & the factory one is true. Of course the draft isn't even active YET.

[eleny]

47. Hope you're not counting on that

[jmm]

29. If the draft talk becomes more serious,

I hope Rangel pushes for his draft plan again. Under his plan women would be drafted too and there wouldn't be exemptions for college or graduate studies. Between the fighting on all sides of the issue it could be delayed and hopefully shot down.

[birdman]

30. There won't be any draft

It would be political suicide. Not gonna happen.

[diamond14]

31. an old friend of mine just sent me an invite to his 'going away'

party...he's in the National Guard for many years now...and at age 54, he just got called up for Iraq....hey, you young guys...step up to the plate and serve America...if you didn't get up and PROTEST shrub's wars (Iraq, Afganistan, and Liberia),,,,then, it's time for YOU to serve NOW,,,as Will Pitt said: silence is sedation....

and what are you young people doing this summer...PROTESTING ???? your lives depend on it....

I'm pretty old, but I plan to MARCH against shrub's policies (and that includes his crazy wars) this weekend in DC....March starting at 10 AM in DC...PLEASE stand UP....it may save your life....bring your anti-war signs...YOU can save your own lives IF you get UP AND FIGHT AGAINST SHRUB's WAR...if you don't, YOU DIE...ask anyone who lived through Vietnam...this is real...it's not like TV...it's real...the shrub doesn't care about YOUR life...COME JOIN US THIS WEEKEND AND MARCH....MARCH...MARCH....

Meet at the Iwo Jima memorial in Arlington National Cemetary at 10:00am to march over the Key bridge and into Washington, DC. Buses can converge at this location.

http://www.kwru.org/march/index.html

[Paragon]

33. I believe this is called the Rangel Plan

Even hint at reinstating the draft, and you'll see a HELL of a lot more people become politically active against Bush and his war...people with money, people with power, people with influence.

In other words, the draft will never happen again.

[Aidoneus]

35. with the economy the way it is,

the 'd' word might bring up the 'r' word a bit too.

[soothsayer]

36. Good time to be gay!

They don't want us.

[CatWoman]

40. ROFL!!!!!!!

:D

[paulsbc]

42. isn't Charlie

Rangle (D-NY) for the draft? I saw him a while back before the war claiming that the draft should be reinstated to even out the disparity in the military w.r.t. minorities...

[Dhalgren]

61. Rangle is not "for" the draft, per se,

he says that if the US is going to fight an unjust war, it aught to do it with all its children - not just the unfortunate ones who had no options but military service (i.e. the poor). If America thinks this is a "good" war (like Lieberman does), then the sacrefice should be shared by all Americans.

[Cthulu_2004]

45. The draft wouldn't be necessary....

if we paid our soldiers a living wage and stopped cutting their benefits. Especially the way the economy is going.

[tameszu]

50. My ABB almost includes cthulhu...

...at least cthuhlu would have won the war by now.

[Nashyra]

52. I hope to God they don't start this shit again

even though my son wants to join the military AFTER college. If they do have a draft I think that it should be the age group 23 and up. That way you don't get a deferment for school. Whether you can afford school or not you eventually go, and if you did not want to go to school you could join earlier if that was your choice. But to interupt college after high school is not right, let them get thru school and then be made to go, girls to they don't have to be combat.

[diamond14]

54. pentagoon likes them YOUNG 18-26, so they can be manipulated

by time they finish college, they THINK too much...18 year olds can be molded and ordered...

[gulliver]

49. What will they do if they can't get volunteers?

I can't imagine anyone is planning on joining the Army now. Bush sent our current volunteers to a hell-hole half-way around the world to fight against what turns out to be a non-existent threat. There is no way the regular troops or reservers would have joined had they known what Bush was capable of.

The thing is, I don't know how we get out of Iraq without turning it into the worst hot-bed of anti-Americanism the world has ever seen. If terrorism is a cancer, I think Bush may be killing the patient.

[Cascadian]

51. If the draft comes.....

I will know of only three things to do....


A. I will be thankful that I am over the hill.

B. I will encourage any young men to get the hell out of the country.

and C. Campaign like hell to end it.


The draft talk will only increase if we go attack another country. A great example would be North Korea and now I am hearing that the Shrub misadministration is wagging it's finger at Syria again. Damn! Bush is not going to stop!

John

[diamond14]

55. USAPATRIOT acts closes the borders, and why not campaign

NOW, when it can make a great difference...you can protest any of shrub's THREE perpetual wars this weekend in DC (Afganistan - 2 years now, Iraq 6 months now, and Liberia just started).....


come and join us this weekend in DC...MARCH against shrub's policies...stand UP and MARCH while there is still a chance to save your young friends and children....

http://www.kwru.org/march/index.html

[Cascadian]

56. I am far away from D.C. but....

I am going to two rallies this weekend.

This Saturday, there will be an anti-Bush rally at the Seattle waterfront. On Sunday, Howard Dean is coming to speak at Westlake Center. Also in Seattle.

So I am doing my part and I dare them to close the borders. There are ways to cross the borders. What would they do if we try to escape into Canada. Shoot us?

John

[diamond14]

68. right after USAPA-TRIOT act, bush* signed an agreement with

the Canadian government, allowing OUR troops to enter Canada (if needed) to search for and return criminals....it caused quite a crisis on the internet boards...but no where else, there was no outcry....

many of us old-time acivist objected vehemently, because it smelled like the draft...in addition, the "no child left behind" shoved in a 'special' part that allows the US Government to grab your high school/college records making it that much easier to find you and your friends and relatives where you might be hiding...

I think the draft will be so much easier to track down draftees this time with computers nationwide and at borders...during Vietnam, records were all held in file cabinets at local draft boards and there were NO computers, so it was easier to hide (but actually, very few got away with it...draftees were hunted down and thrown in basic training, which at the height of the killing was only about TWO weeks long training...and you were off the front, and if you kept acting up or whining during those two weeks, or being uncooperative, it would be just that much sooner when you were cannonfodder on the front line...people learned very quickly to shut up and do what they were told ASAP in the hope of saving their own lives)...all this garbage of 'getting out of the draft' is just garbage...the Vietnam Vets didn't want to go, but they were forced, and you will all be surprise how many ways the military has to make YOU go....I had friends who were grabbed walking out of their college dorms, or coming home for spring break, or walking out their front door or buying groceries...there were very few who got across the border, and I lived in Detroit...only one bridge away from Canada, just across the Detroit River....NOBODY wanted to go,, some could hide in people's basements and entry was refused to the military legally, but NOW, under USAPATRIOT, military enters your house at will to search for draft dodgers...we could see all the carnage in those returning and KNEW that your life depended on protesting....that seems to be missing today, because potential draftees don't yet get it or they would be in the STREETS NOW...

BTW...congradulations on your decision to protest this weekend...I was at TWO protests before the Iraq war in DC, one in NY, and one in Chicago and saw very few young potential draftees, mostly just us old people...so I am very glad if you are a potential draftee and have decided to SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE...

[bluestateguy]

69. As I said before...

If somebody is drafted all they have to do is smoke a bunch of pot and fail their physical. The fake gay thing is always a possibility.

[JVS]

71. I've heard that that doesn't work anymore either

Something along the lines of a reservist saying that he's gay and his CO saying "sure you are, get in the truck"

[PaDUer]

64. If he's not going to stop...

then send HIM leading the gang!

[Lone_Wolf]

57. The draft shouldn't be legal because of the 13th Amendment

it prohibits involuntary servitude. Compelling people to serve should be unconstitutional.

[TahitiNut]

76. Hackneyed argument ...

... refuted many times, particularly during the Vietnam era.

[WillyT]

66. One Theory Has It That...

It was the DRAFT that acted as a catalyst for ALL of the movements of the '60's. It was, according to this theory, THE galvanizing force to rail against the establishment. And it opened the floodgates for the women's movement, the civil rights movement, the environmental movement, etc...

Apparently, and unfortunately, it looks like this is STILL the case. Until we put all (or enough) of our sons and daughters on the firing line, we as a people will, in total, remain quite complacent as the world turns!!!

Thoughts!!!

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

72. Willy Baby!!!!!

:hi:

[WillyT]

82. Hey Cat, How's It Goin ???

:bounce::loveya::bounce:

[Hamlette]

73. reinstituting the draft is the surest way to stop this war

I'm surprised that not more college kids are following the war in Iraq and its because it doesn't touch their lives. If you have a draft kids and moms and dads all over the country, from all walks of life will be saying "you want my kid/me to die where and for what?"

The additional benefit is that those kids going off to war are not pro war to begin with. They will give us the straight skinny on what's happening over there.

I'm all for the draft (my 20 year old son is furious with me over this and mind you, I would move to Canada before I let him go BUT it would also insure that I was on the streets protesting this war all day every day).

Remember, pin back your hair, no earrings.

[SmileyBoy]

74. I have Aspbergers syndrome and tourette's. Am I disqualified??

Some people are telling me that they don't care about that, and some (including my parents) are telling that they won't except me. With ADHD, Aspberger's, Tourette's and clinical depression, am I immediately disqualified?? I'd like to know.

[DemExpat]

75. Inconceivable that my 19 year old son could be drafted!

Even though we live outside the US I would hate for him to lose his American citizenship over this....

DemEx

[tlcandie]

78. Guess I need tin foil hat here ... as I know you are all saying

it isn't going to happen, BUT how many other things ARE happening that you thought would NEVER happen, eh?

Let's stop and think OUT OF THE BOX! This is what PNAC does and I believe they have an offensive move for every defensive move and more!

So, could we say another major terrorist blow, martial law and then there is a draft and no 2004 election?

I'm not saying any or all of this could or will happen, BUT thinking outside of the box...which is where the repugs, *, & PNAC all go. Personally, I don't put it past them because they will go to ANY means to accomplish their end goals!

Once you are in this deep and even if your ship looked like it might be sinking, why not go overboard, eh?

Heard someone the other day talk about how we all say * is ignorant, etc., and he said it's common knowledge, but what we've missed is the fact he's the one that gives the criminals behind him the ability to pull off (front guy, good guy, common joe) all the schemes and machinations(sp?) of all the crimes being committed today.

I believe they want to rip at every shred of hope we have, so they are left with power via fear and terror run-amuck. Chaos2win for *co!

Just my lousey 2 cents worth

http://pnacrevealed.com/

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

<snip>
Once this trust is placed in the hands of a powerful leader, this neocon argues that certain tools are permissible to use. For instance: “lying is central to the survival of nations and to the success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can count on the reliability of everything you say, your vulnerability is enormously increased.” What about the effects of lying on one’s own people? Who cares if a leader can fool the enemy? Does calling it “strategic deception” make lying morally justifiable? Ledeen and Machiavelli argue that it does, as long as the survivability of the state is at stake. Preserving the state is their goal, even if the personal liberty of all individuals has to be suspended or canceled.
<snip>

[wbattle]

79. Close the borders? How?

That's 6000 miles of land border, plus coastlines, and you can bet the Canadians and Mexicans aren't going to help unless at US gunpoint. On the political front, middle-class homeowners will turn against the GOP if their sons and nephews are called up. Conscription is too big a risk; look instead for an amnesty program directed at low-level criminal defendants and prisoners in which military service would result in pardons and dropped charges. The Pentagon would hate it, but would accept it.