will there be a 10 commandments riot today in alabama?

[mopaul]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200308\CUL20030820a.html
will the praying demonstrators be able to stop a crane from wrenching the massive 1 ton stone with the commandments carved in it from the ground? will there be violence over a religious symbol...again? when people think their religion is being attacked, they get very ungodly sometimes. when a u.s. helicopter tried to pull down a shia banner the other day, thousands of iraqi shia's rioted with some deaths ensuing. messing with someones religious symbols can really cause hell to break loose.

i think we could all make it in this world without the 10 commandments. if they had never been 'issued' i don't think the world would be one bit different. no one obeys them anyway, have you ever tried? it's almost impossible.

will the ugly event be televised? will pat robertson go into a frothing spastic frenzy and explode? will the very core of the planet crack open dramatically and all sinners sucked into hell while the righteous are shot into paradise like a watermelon seed?
tune in today, cause at 5 p.m. alabama time, something strange WILL happen.

[FlashHarry]

1. I just saw the 'Judge' on CNN

I think he's totally, clinically insane! Is he a regular Baptist, or is he a snake-handling, fire-walking, speaking-in-tongues wacko?

To quote Neil Young, "Alabama, you've got the rest of the Union to help you along. What's going wrong?"

[LizW]

2. PLEASE don't judge us all by the insane Roy Moore

He's off the scale nuts (and we grade on a curve in the south, you know ;))!

[JanMichael]

12. I would never associate our (DU) Liberal Christians with insane Fundies

It's just not fair.

[TAH6988]

3. And to quote Lynyrd Skynyrd...

"A Southern Man don't need him around anyhow..." :-)

[bamademo]

25. He's total whackjob nuts

...and totally politicing this whole sorry episode. I love my poor beleaguered state but I have to say I wish all the nutjob fundies would move to Mississippi and handle their snakes there.

[Atlant]

4. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll secede over this.

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll secede over this.

But I doubt it. Instead, we'll just get more confirmed Republican
voters, convinced that their doing Gawd's will by metaphorically
burning the Constitution.

Atlant

[Beer Snob-50]

5. I was thinking about this going into work this AM

and (just for discussion!!!) I am torn. In this case it is to smash the born again religion into the heads of those who aren't but what if someone put a copy of the ten commandments up with other historical documents concerning the law? Would this be acceptable?

[Atlant]

6. That sort of thing seems to pass court muster.

> but what if someone put a copy of the ten commandments up with other
> historical documents concerning the law? Would this be acceptable?

That sort of thing seems to pass court muster. Nashua (NH) has
this sort of thing in many of its public schools, with the documents
filling an entire hallway wall. I THINK you can find a "Ten
Commandments" mixed in there, but it's been a while since I last
looked.

Atlant

[DarkPhenyx]

7. Depends on which documents...

...and the context they are all presented in. Location would be important as well. Is the 10C going to have a predominant position in the exibit? In reality the Law Code of Hamurabi should be placed well ahead of the 10C in precidence. As should a copy of "Magna Carta".

[Beer Snob-50]

8. I find

that the 10 Commandments in principle to encompass most of the laws of our nation (don't kill, don't steal, respect others stuff)so I think it should have a prominent place with those other documents. Again, in this case, this guy is a bozo with another agenda.

[Ripley]

15. Do you think Atheist and Muslims and Hindus, et al.

not follow those principles? Do you think non-Christians believe murder, stealing, etc. is okay? Those basic tenets of civilized human behavior do not belong solely to the Christians.

I live in this state and it disgusts a lot of folks that he is going to cost us $5,000 a day over this crap.

Dim Son started this horseshit. If he hadn't gone wacko and said "We are on a Crusade" and all the other fundie stuff he and his buddies like Delay get away with, Moore and others wouldn't feel so emboldened.

Just yesterday the local news was explaining what "c-i-v-i-l d-i-s-o-b-e-d-i-e-n-c-e" was to us. It is a peaceful, LAWFUL demonstration by citizens around the monument. Yet, they basically called the anti-war protest peace vigils "traitorous" or at least "DEMONSTRATORS"...never heard the words civil disobedience when they were out in full force.

Please don't turn this into another south-bashing thread. We need support, not mockery.

[Beer Snob-50]

16. I didn't say that these were just Christian laws!!

I said that these were basic laws of civilization.

[Ripley]

20. But to only include one set of "rules"

...the Christian one, says they are the only moral laws our forefathers had to use as a basis for the Constitution and our laws.

That ignores all of the non-Christians who came before...say was Plato a Protestant?

[DarkPhenyx]

27. It does have a prominent place.

It is in teh same exhibit correct? However the "Witches Rede" which basically says "do what thouh will so long as it harms none" is equally important, and much more in line with our much more liberal form of government. I wouldn't place it any higher though, and am just as equally happy to leave it out of teh exhibit all together, so long as all otehr primarily religious docuemtns are left out as well.

[Bandit]

33. How many of those "laws" are in the US Constitution?

The Constitution is the "Law of the Land" and I don't see any of those ten commandments in the Constitution. All of the laws being addressed in the Ten Commandments are local issues and not part of the History of the US. You want to place the Ten Commandments along side of our historical documents for exactly what reason? It played absolutely NO part in the writing of the constitution.

[Beer Snob-50]

41. Well-

No none of the ten commandments are in the Constitution but I feel that many of our laws are distilled from them. We don't kill or steal. These are part of those ten commandments.

[TAH6988]

13. Why?

If you are going in order of when they were "established," the 10Cs (no one's really sure, but most likely some time after the 15th century BC) come after Hammurabi's Code (1780 BC), but well before the Magna Carta (AD 1215.)

[DarkPhenyx]

17. Well, I could say...

...because Hamurabi is an actual law code where as the 10C are just religious text. Now religious folks will argue that point. I will also say taht Hammurabi has a definate historical precident that is decidely lacking from the 10C which lends it a tad more legitimcay in my book.

[TAH6988]

21. I said

That the HLC would go ahead of the 10Cs; perhaps you missed my point. I just said that the MC would come AFTER the 10Cs based on "date of issue."

[DarkPhenyx]

30. Prehaps I did.

I would still place the MC adn LCH well bfore the 10C or other religious texts simply base on their actually historically verifiable weight.

[TAH6988]

31. Your call!

But the 10CC are viewed as "historiclly verifiable" by many. That said, I only follow about 1/2 of them :-)

[AlabamaYankee]

29. The Alabama monument has other quotes

What you are suggesting is exactly what Moore did, hoping the argument that they're simply another part of the basic foundation of law would slide past the Federal Court. It didn't.

Moore, of course, and his followers have undermined tht argument completely by their vehemence and idolatrous worship of this "washing machine sized" lump of rock. While a couple of the commandments could be seen as legal basics - don't murder, don't steal - the rest are clearly religious and cultural law, dating, as other posters have pointed out, to at least the Babylonians.

It will indeed be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Mari333]

9. There are 3 versions of the Ten Cs

the ones that people usually stick up on Gov property are the Protestant Version...the other two are the Catholic, and Jewish version..
Keep your religious documents on Private grounds, and leave public property properly and constitutionaly non partisan when it comes to religion...That solves everything.

http://www.uctaa.org/Essays/reflections/commandments/versions.html

[SheepyMcSheepster]

10. george carlin on the ten commandments

he knocks them down to two. it's a pretty funny read
http://www.geocities.com/bobmelzer/gc10cx.html

[DarkPhenyx]

24. The same logic...

...should most definately be applied to the American Legal Code. We ahve 30 laws that absically tell you "don't discrimintate". Why the fuck do we need 30? Isn't one that cover the whole damn show better and more logical? It's also a damn site fairer to "everyone". A concept many special interest groups are not comfortable with at all.

[alaine]

11. I have to say...

I liked it alot better when they were the upstanding citizens and we were the commie pinko faggot freaks rioting in the streets.

[GOPisEvil]

14. Suppose we send some staffers of Dem. Congresscritters down there...

...shout "RULE OF LAW" repeatedly, making a spectacle like the members of SOME OTHER UNNAMED PARTY DID in 2000?

Nah...there are ways to enforce a court order...

[Ripley]

18. Exactly. Good idea.

I believe the SLPC and the Atheists of America plan on counter-demonstrations, but it would also be helpful if all of the Dem officials stood together as well.

This IS about breaking the law.

[JanMichael]

19. Funny you should mention this. My mother called me yesterday...

...about this situation. She and my sister were watching the speeches and were, simply, appalled.

My mother mentioned "Constructionism" so I asked if "Christian Reconstructionism" had been mentioned and she said YES!

She and my sis' were truly disturbed by what they saw.

Folks...These people are who Atwood used as a model for "A Handmaid's Tale"...

[dusty64]

22. Why isn't moore in jail?

If you or I defied the courts like this we'd be off to the place where "terraists" go. Oh, I forgot he's an extreme rightwinger and different rules apply.

[GOPisEvil]

23. Who's going to arrest him?

Alabama State Troopers? Uh, I think not - just for their own political lives...
US Federal Law Enforcement - with the current administration? No, again...plus, the House has passed a law stating no federal funds can be used to enforce this court order - hasn't passed the Senate yet, but...

[ewagner]

26. This could be ugly

The worst divisions are over religion. The most violent divisons are over religion.

The concept that the "religous right" does not understand is that the "shall not establish" clause wasn't to protect Atheists from Christians or visa versa, but to place a barrier between Christians and Christians.

[Mari333]

28. My mother is Catholic

when I told her about the Ten Cs in Alabama being the Protestant version of them, she suddenly changed her mind about them...Now shes livid..
Ergo, again, it is best to leave religious documents on private grounds and keep the Gov property non partisan.

[mikeytherat]

32. The problem starts with Commandment Number One

"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me"

In order for one to adhere to this commandment, you must first define who is "Me." Well, as the story goes, these are the commandments hauled down the mountain by Moses, so it is a clear reference to what we now define as the Judeo-Christian God. So, if my religion is not Christianity or Judaism, how can I follow this? And, given the Establishment Clause, this is also a rather clear endorsement of the Judeo-Christian God, which is illegal. Also, if I can't get behind No. 1 (Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist), I can't get behind Nos. 2 and 3, either.

Now, before some folks get their knickers in a snit, I will let you know I am a Christian and feel the posting of these commandments as political cannon fodder cheapens and demeans their sacred meaning. It also forces certain religious beliefs upon anyone entering that courthouse. Finally, I'm surprised Moore and Co. didn't just carve God's Top Ten into a golden calf, as they have elevated this into their personal idol.

Only two of the commandments (Don't Kill, Don't Steal) have any basis in legal precedent. The rest are either Good Samaritan suggestions (Honor Yer Folks, Don't Covet Yer Neighbor's SUV) or, like Commandments 1-3, based solely in Judeo-Christian Theology. And, at a very young age, long before I was aware of my Christianity or even the Big Ten, I knew it was wrong to kill and steal (thanks Mom-n-Pops).

One of the main reasons we left England was that Gub'mint and God had gotten too intermingled and we wanted to honor BOTH by keeping them separate. Why do some work so hard to force them back together?

mikey_the_rat

[TreasonousBastard]

34. Last night the Savage Weiner...

had Falwell on, and they had veins bursting over this. Falwell claimed that if the Guard is called in, they will be good Americans and lay down their arms and go home before they touch Commandment Rock. It went downhill from there.

(I promise never to listen to the weiner again, btw-- it's a very disturbing experience)

This whole thing has an Armageddon ring to it, and don't discount those End-of-Timers and Dispensationalists who see this as part of the looming conflict and Second Coming. This is a significant battle for them, and they have sympathizers in Washington, not the least of whom is Ashcroft.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. These people really believe that they will see Jesus return in their lifetimes.

[Ripley]

36. HELP!!

Quit scaring the crap out of me....I live in this state!!!

With the Anniston Army Depot to my east burning chemical weapons to the fundie revolution to the south, what next?

I expect there might be a revolt once the tax package is voted down (or up) in a few weeks.

:scared:

I need to move.

[Ripley]

35. At least the good news is that a judge said Moore "may"

be arrested if he doesn't remove it by midnight. The bad news is that the fundies are bussing people in to replace them in their chain-link of lunatics once they get arrested.

So, why are people coming from California and Ohio to support Moore? Where are the liberals coming from those states to stand with the ACLU?

I just hope it doesn't get violent.

[arcane1]

37. I'm so relieved that Alabama has NO other problems

so that these good fine people don't have to waste their time holding vigils for abused children, the poor and neglected, those babies without health care, molested, orphaned, hungry, and so on....


hopefully someday ALL the states will have the chance to solve these issues like Alabama did, so that the ONLY thing the fundies can complain about is monument-placement


:eyes:

[Robin Hood]

38. I don't have a problem with the ten commandments there...but...

As long as other religions have the opportunity to display their beliefs as well. What would they do if a stone Koran was displayed next to the stone commandments?

[donco6]

40. The Church of DONCO6 wants a spot.

My stone will say, "All other religions are crap."

[mopaul]

39. will the 5000 lb. stone rise up into a heavenly beam of light?

the supreme court just screwed god and his extra fanatic supporters.