The author of "Mexifornia" was on a CSPAN panel discussing illegal

[Gin]

immigration yesterday. He stated the illegal immigrants coming today, not only are here without going through the legal process, but are "demanding" free social services and the privelge of driving.. While our jobs go to Mexico and China, they sneak into the country, get fake Id's, don't pay taxes becasue they are paid in cash under the table. ( except for sales tax) Greedy employers and rich people who pay them under the table for household services rendered are culprits in this crime. Why should anyone else go through the long process of legal residency?

These illegals (the Politcally correct term is Undocumented workers)are creating a second system within the state of California and the taxpayer is picking up the tab for all the free services rendered.

One suggestion stated by the panel to correct the problem is freeze all immigration for 5 years. Add more border protection, fine employers who hire these folks, deny them free services and once the handout dries up, they go home and take the problem back to the source..their own country- Mexico. Fox is loving the fact that we are subsidizing his poor and uneducated. We are soooo generous.

[Cha]

1. I know! I don't understand this at all! I know they work hard and

everything but they shouldn't be allowed in "the system"!

It's draining! Especially to Cali that doesn't need that!

DU is running really slow right now!
I'm hoping it's not just me! :-)

[acerbic]

2. Uhh... so the "solution" to the problem of illegal immigration

...is to stop legal immigration:

One suggestion stated by the panel to correct the problem is freeze all immigration for 5 years.
:crazy: :dunce:

[Gin]

3. Yes....we need time to get a handle on the situation....

the last group who got amnesty in the 80's has not assimilated to becoming Americans. Only 25% have become citizens. The comunities are made up of majority who have not finished high school, and it's creating a system of apartheid.

Immigration is a good thing. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. We have reached critical mass with this problem, something has got to shift.

In know of one Business in New England that went from 10% of their work force being Mexican to 95% in one years time. I guess they are willing to work for less and employers are getting a fatter bottom line. There are willing and able workers in this country but our standards are higher. (rightly so)

[UTUSN]

4. Yep, Militarization of the Border (MX, NOT Canada)

O'REILLY, Maltese MALKIN, BUCHANAN========they all want militarization of the SOUTH border, but not Canada. All of the "terrorists" came in through Canada.

O'REILLY is antagonistic to the BROWN HORDES. O'REILLY's forebears were Irish priests throughout Latin America.

[UTUSN]

5. Let's Do the Whole Backstory, O.K.?

Victor Davis HANSON is a Classics Dept professor at some California university. He's a multi-generational occupant of some part of California, operating a grape/wine plantation. He has family members who are married to Mexican-Americans. He also employs same and also has doubts about the wholesale populace-invasion of Mexicans into the U.S./California. He can see both sides, the hard-working MXs but also the drugs/uneducated/recklessness of it all.

So. Where are we? Ahhhnuld can come here with VAST finances and family connections and go to the head of the class, but dirt-poor MX-cans can't?????

*******QUOTE****
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_do_we_want.html
.... How did the old assimilationist model work? Brutally and effectively. In our grammar schools during the 1950s and 1960s, no Spanish was to be spoken on the playground—officially at least. Groups of four and larger were not allowed to congregate at recess. When we were caught fighting, nontraditional kicking instead of the accepted punching earned four, rather than two, spankings. A rather tough Americanism in class was rammed down our throats—biographies of Teddy Roosevelt, stories about Lou Gehrig, a repertory of a dozen or so patriotic songs, recitations from Longfellow, and demonstrations of how to fold the flag. “Manners” and “civics” were taught each week, with weird lessons about not appearing “loud” in public or wearing glittery or showy clothes, and especially not staring down strangers or giving people the “hard look” with the intent of “being unpleasant.” Our teachers were at times insufferable in their condescension as they disclosed the formula for “making it in America”—but make it in America the vast majority of these immigrants did.

Apparently, these rather unsophisticated teachers thought that learning to master English and acquire the rudiments of math, American literature, and national culture were more valuable to the immigrant than were racial studies, ....
**********UNQUOTE********

[UTUSN]

6. More Backstory

HANSON, as said, is a Classics Dept professor. This might seem innocuous.

Nay.

Other Classics type dudes are: NIETZSCHE. and some dude from the U. of Chicago that all these other world-takers-over adore. (I'll think of his name soon.)

This Victor Davis HANSON is CHEENEE's adopted guru. He writes for the National Review. And he provides ancient/historical examples for what the Shrub/Neo-Cons WANT TO DO ANYWAY.

Neo-Con-ism has to do with: Constant war, under the guise of idealistic GOALS (like replacing horrible governments). Being a VITAL, FASCISTIC life-FORCE------------as opposed to NAMBY PAMBY Liberalism.

[UTUSN]

8. Leo STRAUSS (U. Chicago Prof)

What is not understood is that all these dudes (STRAUSS, NIETZSCHE, HANSON) are thought to be individually original.

They're not. They are CLASSICS dudes. This is not a bad thing in itself. But EACH of them goes BACK to the Ancient Greeks and suck NEW LIFE from the ancient virtues and values: PRIDE (as opposed to Christian "humility"), brute physical COURAGE, DOMINANCE, might makes right (for the right reasons).

[Clete]

7. Perhaps the employers, who pay them under the table,

need to pay some hefty fines to put a stop to the practice. It used to be you could hire an illegal legally as long as you deducted the usual taxes, so the illegals were a part of the tax-paying system. But since they made it illegal, it seems to have increased the underground economy resulting in abuses of both the illegals and the system. So the law needs to go after the citizens who are perpetrating the practice and punish them for breaking the law. Either that or go back to the way things once were.

[sybylla]

18. I agree with you on this.

Fining the perpetrators of the underground economy circulating around the undocumented immigrants should be part of the solution. Right now, violations of immigration laws by employers are largely subject to petty fines which will stop nothing.

Unfortunately fining the source of the problem hasn't worked so well in other areas like prostitution (fining the John). But I can't imagine a self-employed person risking hiring illegally if the potential fine is more than he would have paid in taxes, benefits, and the costs of upholding labor laws if he'd hired legally. And as far as I can see this is part of the problem.

[UTUSN]

9. Now. Let's Talk About Immigration.

Why are the biggest enemies of "immigration" O'REILLY, MALKIN, BUCHANAN?

The Irish (I'm 1/16th) came, suffered, and are now in the dominant yak-fest (RUSSERT, O'REILLY, BARNICLE, MATTHEWS, NOONAN, and MANYMANY MORE.)

MALKIN is the daughter of immigrants. Doesn't want anybody else in.

O.K., so is the difference "illegal" immigration?

Why are Canadians allowed free entry from the North, but Mexicans have to get time-limited visas?

So. Did Victor Davis HANSON's forebears take the California winelands legally? Just asking.

[Clete]

11. Exactly, not only Canadians, but a laundry list of

white immigrants that come through Canada from Australia, New Zealand, Britain and many other European countries. No one bothers them and they are also illegals. Not only that these are the people, who really do take jobs from Americans, not the guy whose washing dishes in the restaurant you eat in.

[LoverOfLiberty]

10. Those damn Mexicans!

Just take, take, take!

P.S. Thanks for the 69 cent head of lettuce.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. Excellent, Liberty

;-) Personally, I've given up on trying to convince them how racist their POV's are. It's someone else's turn.

[Desperadoe]

12. I Got Two Things To Add To This

"Deportee" by Woody Guthrie

"California Snow" by Tom Russell

[Gin]

13. The issue of illegal immigration is one that needs to be discussed

rationally. It goes beyond Mexicans. The system is being undermined by so many coming in illegally, and taking more than they give. Also, why go through the long legal process of becoming a citizen when you can get what you need without doing that?

We have an elephant in the room and nobody is talking about it, and what can we do to fix it.

[UTUSN]

14. Who Is NOT Talking About It?

O'REILLY, MALKIN, BUCHANAN, not to mention HANSON, are just the most prominent celeb names that spearhead the LARGE number of wingnuts who share their views. O'REILLY has been pushing for militarizing the (Southern) border for at least the past two years.

I think what is sort of riling me are phrases like, "taking more than they give," "elephant in the room," and "what can we do to fix it."

There is a tone of sounding an ALARM, followed by vague phrases that leave room, without saying so, for who-knows-what "fixes" that might be Draconian wingnut "fixes". What, specifically, would you advocate doing?

I took a couple of semesters on Chinese history, covering, like, 5,000 years. One of the over-themes was that Chinese CULTURE was dominant, that the territory was invaded by whatever barbarian group after next barbarian group, and within a couple of generations after each invasion, the invaders were SWALLOWED UP by Chinese CULTURE.

Now. It might be argued and discussed here that, technically speaking, much of the U.S. was "invaded" by U.S.-ers and that the hordes of illegal immigrants are actually reasserting their cultural sense of possession.

[mrbill]

15. a much better book was "gringolandia"....

a guide for puzzled mexicans written in 1997 by lorenzo w milam, author of many books including "sex and broadcasting" and the "petition against god".

[Gin]

17. we agree that the US has done awful things elswhere...

having said that..Pat Buchanan has an occasional good idea.

I don't know what the people you quote are saying, I am stating a fact that we as a country have a problem, and illegal aliens are part of it. As adults, lets talk about it and come up with a viable solution, or at least an idea.

[UTUSN]

19. Well, What Are Some Potential Solutions?

Hopefully, excluding the "Final" one. Haha. That one might not be excluded by BUCHANAN.