If Arnold wins, good or bad for Dems or Repubs?

[kentuck]

He insinuated today that he would not raise taxes. Someone has obviously pointed out to him that you cannot get the Repub vote by being for tax increases. However, once he accepts the key to the coup, then he will have to increase taxes if he wants to make a "significant" difference in the deficit. However, if it goes down 30 cents, they can always say they are on the right track and are making progress. So he will not necessarily have to raise taxes. They can spin and sell whatever condition the CA economy will be in once they take power.

So, the odds are that if Arnold wins, the Repub establishment will not permit him to raise taxes. The CA economy will continue to slide into the crapper. They will blame whatever condition the economy might be on the majority Democrats in the statehouse. It's their usual political game. They prosper as a Party but the state and the nation suffers.

If the Democrats hang on, there will be tax increases. The deficits will be brought under some semblance of control. Although the state would be on a much healthier growth path, it will be portrayed by the Repubs as a continuing failure. Job growth is at a measly 1% and it would have been much better if the Dems had not raised taxes...etc..etc.. The whole sham is so predictable.

[SharonAnn]

1. Bad, he's Republican and will appoint Repubs to all the

appointed positions (there are hundreds of them) in California and they will have a great deal of power.

He would get a lot of pressure from Rove to do what Rove wanted in order to get anything that California needs/wants. Since Ahnuld would want to be a "hero" and would also want to get re-elected, he would do a lot of what Rove wanted.

BAD - BAD - BAD - BAD - BAD - BAD

[ComerPerro]

16. Well, you are onto something

Someone pointed out the possibility that once Arnold is in, California may start recieving federal funding. This shows Arnold as a hero who fixed the budget problem without raising taxes, then lowered taxes. It also makes the Dems look bad and the Bush Administration look good.

[Capn Sunshine]

2. IF HE WINS

It will mean that the overwhelming democratic majority in this state didn't vote; or was sucked in by some strange borg.


IF the recall passes, the new gov is screwed blued and tattooed.
He will find an additional 3billion per year in additional interest paymenst waiting. How you gonna "untax" your way out of that?

As Ross Perot used to say " It don't add up!!"

:nuke:

[Ein]

3. If he is sane, and not corrupt by Rove and Ken Lay

then yes. But I think he is corrupt by Rove and Lay.

First realization is Gray seems to have found some balls recently and is on the defense, which is great. All this crap can be linked to Bush, from his inability to even handle a wartime economy, to the looting of CA by his friend Ken Lay and his biggest campaign support Enron. Arnold is not going to win.

If Arnold wasn't corrupt... then it might be a good thing. Moderate Conservative who can refrain from invoking the name of God everywhere he goes. He might appoint more moderates dems and repubs if he weren't corrupt, as thier views would be in line.

To explain me views. I am pretty damned socially liberal in most areas, a supported of socialism. But in the current framework of politics in America I don't see vast differences.

As an outsider looking at the 2k race, I liked both Gore and McCain equally.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Ein

In the last hour I've managed to basically agree with everything I've read that you've posted. It's good to know that there's another person who shares my views. Unfortunately while McCain's politics are better than most Republicans I think that he is just as corrupt as Arnold. Unfortunately I think we are going to find that Arnold is going to do what Carl Rove tells him to do, and well... so much for straying from traditional politics and being a truly "independent" candidate.

[Ein]

13. It's a matter of morals

McCain may be conservative, and I'm liberal. But Gore was going to go against Bush or McCain. And, basically, Gores actions in Africa regarding AIDs medications is a catostrophic thing that makes my bowels roar. The obvious thing is Bush won the nomination. My deal then, looking at it at 16 year old, was b/t Nader and Gore. And the moral and liberal champion in that case was obvious.

edit: In my nonvoting I wouldn't have voted Bush b/c of the Reagan-Bush era.

[Booberdawg]

4. Easy, if Arnold wins ..

good for Republicans, .. very, very bad for Democrats. very, very, VERY bad for the people of California. And puts CA within reach for bush crime family in 2004 election.

[Eloriel]

5. You need to take a step back and see the overview (forest)

Taxes are the very LEAST of it. We all need to do as much as we can to prevent ANY Repug from taking this coup masquerading as an "election."

From a thead I started on Aug. 15:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=180842


WAKE UP and Kiss Democracy -- AND the 2004 election -- goodbye


I keep reading threads where the California Recall is not taken seriously, OR worst of all, somehow seen as having some benefits.

People, it's DEADLY serious and the folks of California have GOT to find a way to not let Arnold or any other Repug get elected. And the rest of us have to help in whatever way we can.

Here's why -- and I've posted this to a bunch of threads and I'm getting tired of repeating myself:

If Arnold (or probably any other Repug) wins, we WILL lose California in 2004. That's a given. There's no doubt about it.

In fact, they were already preparing "the back story" for it before Arnold even announced. Just a few days before his announcement there was an article in the WP, I believe, to the effect that Bush/CHeney think they can take CA and NYC, that they're ripe for the picking. We ALL know that with free and fair elections, that would be a lie since these two are such heavily Dem (blue) states. But where we have computerized voting machines, we don't have free and fair elections any more and there's still a rush going on to get computerized voting machines in place.

So they're getting ready for another round of vote fraud and that article and others like it are just the setup so it won't seem so outlandish. They stole FL, they stole GA in 2002 (and other races elsewhere), and with Repug governors they sure as hell CAN steal CA and NY.

Here's why they want Arnold: he knows NOTHING but he's got name recognition and adulation as a star out to yang-yang. They won't even let him talk anymore, now that it's clear he can't discuss the issues at all.

Hell, Rove probably promised him that he'd give him all the help he needs, so he'd be a star in office. Maybe lured him with that off-the-wall Constitutional Amendment by Mitch McConnell which would eradicate the Constitutional provision you have to be a born native of the US to run for President.

All they have to do is this:

1. Get Arnold in

2. Send Bush to CA a bunch of times for some glitzy photo-op stuff for Arnold like Bush does that makes people believe he's doing something

3. Let Bush do some wonderful things that make Californians happy and makes it look really good for Arnold too

4. Get polls showing increasing Bush support (yes, polls are skewed these days, esp. if you get the right pollster who will call the right people and ask the right questions). That alone will make some fools who aren't paying enough attention think about actually voting for "a winner and popular guy like Bush" in 2004.

5. Steal the election. If the voting machines are all or even mostly computerized, let me tell you this: it's a done deal. No contest.

AND, with this ballot nightmare for non-computerized voting areas, it's going to be such a nightmare it will make Florida look like a walk in the park. People will be clamoring for those electronic touch-screens.

Here's how it's going to work: Each county has a different ballot. The names aren't listed alphabetically, but rather in the order the letters were randomly pulled in the lottery they had a week or so ago. In one county Z may be the first letter listed on the ballot, followed by R, B, F, A, etc. In another county, the order is R, W, C, K, etc. IT'S A NIGHTMARE. I can't think of any way to make it more confusing, more anti-voter and anti-democracy other than printing the ballots in invisible ink. And you can bet whoever came up with this scheme is a Repug, or perhaps a "Theresa LePore Democrat."

That means if I go into the poll knowing who I want to vote for, I'll have to read through all or most of 6 ballots to even find my candidate. A lot of jurisdictions still use punchcards. With 150 names on the ballot, even a speed reader will take a long time to vote for their candidate.

If there's any turnout at all -- which is, of course, exactly what we want -- it will take hours and hours for a handful of people to vote. How long will it take to read through 150 names on 6 punchcards? THOS ALONE NEEDS TO BE CHALLENGED IN COURT.

After this nightmare, people will be BEGGING for computerized voting, and election officials will be scrambling to get them.

WAKE UP, PEOPLE. We've got to get busy on this recall garbage and defeat it. You don't have much time. Le Taz Hot and Capn Sunshine are actively working on it. Contact them and see if you can help them out. Here's one email list on the subject (not very active):

[e-mail]


C'mon folks, they're stealing our democracy right out from under us. Let's get busy on the Recall and the voting machines issue and NOT let up. We WILL lose CA if Arnold gets in AND/OR we don't fix the voting machine problem. Mark my words. I've never been surer of ANYthing.

Eloriel

[Capn Sunshine]

Hey! We are as active as we wanna be!

not very active indeed :loveya:
XOX

[liberalmuse]

9. I agree with you.

Thank you for your insightful post. I'm also one of those who doesn't see this situation as the joke/circus/entertainment a lot of people are making it out to be. If Arnold gets the governorship, then our democracy will slide fast down that slippery slope. Bush will be able to steal another election, and god help us all. It's a blatant attempt to overturn a legal election (again). The Bush White House is behind this 100%, I have no doubt about it. It's not a coincedence that there's a petition in Venezuela to recall Chavez, a man the Bushies tried to get rid of via coup about a year or so ago. It's beginning to seem like the norm now, isn't it? My state still has the punchcards, and we aren't going electronic anytime soon (I called the Board of Elections last year to ask about this). Unfortunately, my state doesn't need a cheatbox because I don't think it has ever tallied anything but 'Republican' in the presidential elections, EVER.

[bluestateguy]

6. If he wins, the recall Arnold movement starts October 8th

I'm serious about that too. Vengeful Californians should be able to get enough signatures to do another election in Nov. 2004.

Payback will be a bitch.

[TheWebHead]

7. it's good for liberals

I think having a centrist Republican, who will be the most high profile and popular Repub politician in the country.. even arguably moreso than Bush, will tilt the party towards the middle instead of the far right as it is now. It will lead to the Republican party again having to "find itself" if they amend the constitution and Arnold runs for Pres in 2008/2012, just as Clinton's centrism has done to Democrats right now.

[Ein]

8. He has had meetings

with both Karl Rove and GW Bush, and Ken Lay.

I sense that moreso than anything the liberal thing is a farce, or something that will disappear if Arnold won, and outside Repubs would be telling this inexperienced man how to run a state.

edit: Republican Governor of CA.... no thanks, I don't feel like 8 more Reagan-like years.

[spielino]

10. I say put all politics aside and see if he can do the job

I hate to say it but California is going broke. Things just have not gone that well under Davis. Arnold has accomplished a whole lot given that he started out dirt poor, coming to a strange land without speaking a word of English. We may not know where he stands on everything, but no one believes he is a conservative. (Rush and Hannity have scalded him) So let's forget party affiliation for awhile and just see how the man does. We already know something about his drive.

[ibegurpard]

14. Dude, I will forget party affiliation when people like Tom Delay

are no longer welcome in the Republican Party. Until that time, a republican will NEVER, EVER, EVER get my vote.

[DieboldMustDie]

15. Did you read this article...

right here on DU?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/08/20_recall.html

[Clete]

11. Jesse Ventura.

That's what we will get.