Why get the imitation when you can have the real thing?

[snyttri]

If Dean sounds like Clark lite on Iraq it may be because he may have gotten his policies from Clark.


"What started as a point-by-point review of his economic and health care policies turned quickly into his dissertation on foreign affairs in Cuba, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Iraq. Dean has been getting tutored on foreign policy by numerous experts, including retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar. He has also had several private conversations with retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander who some Democrats see as an attractive running mate for Dean if Clark does not join the race himself."

No wonder Dean supporters feel threatened by such a longshot.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/956302.asp#BODY

[roughsatori]

1. Maybe what bothers some Dean supporters

Is not Clark at all, but some of his supporters who like to disrupt DU. I like Clark and Dean.

I did a search of the DU names of some of the newer members who are Clark supporters. After I read their posts, I started to suspect that they were actually Republican disruptors. (It is against the rules to say their names) Don't take my word for it--try the search yourself.

Some of his supporters think it is more important that Clark get the moderate Republican votes then to get liberal Democrat votes. I understand that is why they like the strategy of his not saying clearly and directly what party he is a member of.

Why is it OK to say how the Dean supporters are too far left and that they don't realize Dean is moderate?

I would reverse that for Clark, some of his supporters are too far right and don't realize that he is a moderate.

[John_H]

2. The disruptors are not Dems.

I may be a Dean guy, but it's totally obvious to me that uncle KKKarl is scared shitless of Clark. After all, he takes away their biggest issue, "security"," and when that's gone they're left with a shitty economy, environmental disasters and underfunded schools.

They want clark supporters to look like assholes so he doesn't win the nomination.

[roughsatori]

5. That is what I suspect too, thanks for being more clear than I was

in my post.

[snyttri]

3. It is rude of you to accuse me of being a Republican.

Is discussing the pluses and minuses of the various candidates disrupting? Or is it only disrupting to discuss Dean's minuses.

I am to the left of Dean myself, and on the issues Clark has been public about so is Clark.

The complaint about Clark not declaring yet is irrelevant, if he is in the race it will be as a Democrat. If he does not get into the race it doesn't matter.

[roughsatori]

4. Please read what I wrote again. I never said you were a disrupter

However after reading your thread on Dean and the death penalty just now, I started to wonder.

As for being rude, I have no need to be considered nice or polite by you or anyone. I would say your writing I was "rude" and then supporting it by claiming I accused you of "being a Republican" is a misunderstanding, or lie, on your part.

[Booberdawg]

10. Clark disrupters

... and not a one of them yet with a star by their names.

[nomaco-10]

13. I have 23 or 24 posts and that makes me a Clark disrupter? That is....

really single minded and rude. I was a long time lurker and decided to register about a week ago. If all newcomers are treated with such distrust and abuse, I'm sure very few new members will stay. I'm here for one purpose only, to get rid of bush. I came to be with like minded people, so I will keep posting until I get my star. BTW, I'm a Dean supporter, but I plan to support whoever becomes our candidate.

[Booberdawg]

16. I think you misunderstood

You get a star by making a donation to DU, not from posting. I was merely pointing out that the Clark disrupters the poster I responded to described also had this in common.

Donations are not required to be a member.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[nomaco-10]

18. Thanks for the welcome. Sorry if I was a little....

defensive, but I was tagged the other day by someone thinking I was a Clark disrupter because of my low post number. Thanks for the reply and the warm welcome. PEACE

[Booberdawg]

20. No problem

I'm sorry you were not treated to the usual good hospitality to newcomers on DU. It really wasn't appropriate for anyone to admonish you on your post count.

It's really become quite frustrating the last several weeks. There has, indeed, been what appears to be an organized and overwhelming effort by Clark supporters bashing Dean. Some of them have proven to be disrupters on other issues as well. It just seems suspicious that most of them are new. I happened to notice that none of them are donating members of DU as well.

Since you are a Dean supporter, be sure to wear full armor when you enter discussions on the candidates. ;-) Get's pretty rough and tumble in here sometimes.

I have not chosen any one candidate, but I'm particularly impressed by one and leaning more and more in his favor. I'm not saying who because I'm not willing to set myself up for a ration of horse shit from those who have their heart set on another candidate. I'll support who ever the Democratic nominee is when all is said and done.

Welcome again, and don't let the turds put you on the defensive. :D

[Rose Siding]

6. Longshot, how?

[Capn Sunshine]

7. Aren't you out of carpet yet?

God any more astroturf from the Draft Clark movement and it will look like the Brady Family back yard around here.

[Rose Siding]

9. LOL It's cracking me up...

Like sand in your swimsuit, only funny. There's a real roll out underway.

[Pepperbelly]

8. As a Clark supporter ...

I must say, posting this same bit repeatedley is a tad rude to our kind hosts, the inestimable Skinner, et al, using bandwidth to no purpose since this is already posted elsewhere in other threads, even other threads OF IT'S OWN.

Please, it's not polite to come into someone's living room and then shit on their carpet.

Peace.

:D

[snyttri]

11. Sorry.

I didn't know there was anthing wrong with posting the same response since the same questions keep coming up. I'm ignorant about bandwidth issues.

[Pepperbelly]

12. well ... folks might claim you ...

were spamming.

Not me of course. :D

Let's just play nice. I really think that we are all on the same side and it is so easy to lose sight of that in our rough and tumble internecine battles.

Remember what Will Rogers said:"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

Look how much fun the gops have always knowing who the annointed one will be long before the first votes are cast. Makes me shudder to think about it.

[IndianaGreen]

15. bandwidth issues are not the only issues you are ignorant about

Before you post some unsupported bullshit about Howard Dean, I suggest that you go to the Dean website and find out what the man said on a given issue.

[Booberdawg]

14. You have started 5 anti-Dean threads now

Seems to me your time would be better spent out working FOR your candidate instead of bashing another.

This gets really old. And you are not changing any minds.

[Pepperbelly]

17. The thing is ...

I know how many anti-Clark threads were started by some bozos on this bus but that does not mean that fighting fire with fire is the answer. There are a lot of really, really, really good things that speak for the election of Wesley Clark and denigrating another fine Democrat, Howard Dean of Vermont, serves no purpose except to satisfy a tit-for-tat pissing contest with someone no doubrt snickers when this kind of thing occurs because it truly doesn't win over a single convert.

When the anti-Clarkers ... the bashers, post something inaccurate or merely slimey, the best thing to do is to speak the truth loudly and consistently. How many times have I read someone casting the most egregious aspersions on Clark because he is not a registered Democrat and no matter how many times I point out to them that in his home state, there is no party registration, they persist in repeating this ad nauseum or even better yet, adding additional petty qualifiers like "proud" Democrat, whatever that means.

Wesley Clark has so many good things that can be said about him without resorting to pissing on someone else's leg. Say those things.

When they say, he has no political experience, shout that fucking politicians are what brought us to the mess we're in and maybe a professional politician is not what we need right now. Up front, I guarantee, as an observer of the political scene for many decades and one who was educated in the subject in formal education, that being a General is harder than being a Senator. It is far better experience in actually DOING things than Governor which is mostly a pretty skate job if one has competent people to take care of the details. Does that mean that Governors or Senators are bad? Of course not. Does it mean all politicans are incompetent? Nope, it just means that a lack of one sort of experience is not necessarily a bad thing.

What about his problem solving paradigm? Not coming from an ideological mindset and RECORD frees one to look at all sorts of solutions for serious problems. More options is never a bad thing. In fact, it is arguably one of the biggest reasons to send Wesley to the White House. Iraq certainly is in need of that sort of pragmtic leadership to deal with what these incompetent rat-bastards currentoly running the government have wrought there.

Just lighten up a bit.

Clark's background, his managerial philosophy, his thoughts about questions facing the nation ... all of these things are well known. They are sufficient in and of themselves to turn almost all of the smears launched against him.

[snyttri]

19. Thanks for the tips. There is a Clark West Point classmate who goes

to the local meetups and says nothing but good things about him.
.