Gay Sex With Minors

[OrdinaryTa]

Gay sex with minors is considered an abomination because it is believed it is how gay men recruit young people. So-called "normal" sex with minors is a big no-no, but it's certainly not on the same scale.

When baseball player Luis Polonia had sex with a 15-year old girl he met at a party, he explained that he thought she was of age. His punishment was being traded from the Yankees. The incident has since been forgotten, and Polonia's autographed baseball card sells on the Internet for about $30. Had Polonia admitted to having sex with a 15-year old boy, his punishment would have been more substantial than being traded to another ball club. The incident would not have been forgotten, and he would not be selling his autograph on the Internet.

Thus, it appears that sex between adolescents and adults is far more traumatic if they are of the same sex. Why is that? Is it because gay sex is unnatural?

[IranianDemocrat]

1. Yes, I believe gay sex is generally viewed as unnatural by the sheeple.

eom

[JanMichael]

2. Yes.

It's not usually treated the same as hetero adult/minor couplings.

[bocadem]

26. A lot of times...

When they would rack up charges for someone who had sex with an underage person of the same sex, they'd throw in a sodomy charge for good measure - just to get more prison time I suppose. (Such is the way of crooked prosecutors) - but anyway, now with the Supreme Court ruling they won't be able to do that.

Sounds good to me. I'm still appalled that the courts don't know the difference between a 16 year old and a 13 year old.

[OrdinaryTa]

27. No Difference In New Mexico

The age of same-sex consent in New Mexico is 13, but in Connecticut it's 18. Why such a gap? If a 13 yr old in New Mexico is considered mature enough to make this kind of decision, why are Connecticut teenagers protected for another five years? It's such a patchwork that it seems arbitrary.

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. Nowhere in the U.S. is...

...the age of consent less than 16. For the record, in New Mexico it's 17. (See: http://www.bet.com/articles/1,,c1gb3085-3753,00.html)

"United States: varies from state to state, usually between 16 and 18; some states forbid homosexual acts entirely, however such laws have been declared unconstitutional in Lawrence v. Texas. Federal law forbids crossing state lines or international borders with the intent of having sex with a person who is under 16 and at least 4 years younger than the perpetrator (18 U.S.C. 2243, 18 U.S.C. 2423)"

Source: Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

Maybe you're confused by the "age of majority" for marriage, since it varies from state to state, from 13 years old and up, depending on the state (and parental consent).

[pruner]

3. "normal" sex with minors is called statutory rape

n/t

[pw]

4. You're confusing two things

a) whether there's an actual difference between the damage (if any) caused by an adult having sex with a minor depending on whether it's same-sex or opposite-sex

b) whether there are more people willing to freak out and go ballistic when they hear about a same-sex episode versus when they they hear about an opposite-sex one.

b) is certainly the case -- one important reason is that the same-sex minors you hear about are almost always young men, and we all "know" that for a young man or boy to be the sexual target of someone older and more powerful is a crime againts nature. Young women, in contrast, are generally considered the natural prey of older men, so a younger-than-usual young woman doesn't excite the same comment.

This is, of course, disgusting.

[Booberdawg]

6. I agree

It's the homophobia that causes peopel to freak out more when it is same sex. I wonder though - I don't think people would be as outraged about an adult woman with an underage girl as they would be with an adult man and an underage boy. Assuming they are in their teens - that is.

With children no matter what the sex of the abuser it's perverted and disgusting.

[papau]

9. freak out and go ballistic is the correct response - Straight sex also

The response to Statutory rape with straight sex needs to be lifted to the level of the responce to statutory rape with gay sex.

[Clete]

5. It just shows that society still thinks what happens to

girls is less important than what happens to boys. I think it is predatory for any adult to have sex with any underage child. I don't think it's that hard to find out if a person is underage before they engage in a sex liason.

When I was a bartender I had to sort out the phony ID's with the underage crowd or pay a hefty fine. I can't see why sports stars and others can't do the same thing if they are truly being hoodwinked by an underage potential sex partner.

[leftofthedial]

7. sex with a minor is wrong

period

[LeftCoast]

8. Agreed, but Age of Consent is almost always MUCH higher for gays

Big debate in the UK about this. Yet another 'special right' for heterosexuals...

LeftCoast

[OrdinaryTa]

25. Web Search on Age of Consent

A web search on "age of consent" AND "gay" shows that the British and the Australians are more concerned with this issue than Americans. In states like Connecticut the age of consent for male-female sex is 16, for male-male or female-female sex it is 18. Curiously, the reverse is true in New Mexico, where the age of consent is 17 for male-female, but 13 for same sex-age of consent.

Those states such as Texas, in which same-sex was illegal for everyone, will now have to decide the age of consent. It may be that Texas will end up as progressive as California.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

[leftofthedial]

30. hmmm

learn something everyday.

[leftofthedial]

29. i'm not aware of an age of consent for gays at all

In the US as far as I know we have an age of consent, period.

And I don't care about gay, striaght, bi, or whatever. Keep your hands off minors.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. You are confusing GAY with PAEDOPHILIA

Sex with a minor REGARDLESS of whether or not the child is the same sex as the adult is commonly reffered to as paedophilia.

Statistics show us that the manjority of adult males having sex with adolescent males are straight.

Just because someone has sex with a kid of the same sex doesn't make them GAY!

All kids that go through being molested as a kid suffer traumatic experiences later in life. I know, I went through it. Not only with a female member of my family but a male friend of this female member. I now suffer from repeating flashback memories at the most inconvenient times of the day or night. My partner has to put up with my rather weird mood swings. And that is just touching the surface of what I do go through on a regular basis. You want to talk about being totally fucked up as a kid, then just look at me. Because it has continued to fuck my life over ever since.

But as for gay sex being unnatural well that isn't so. I was with a guy in a relationship for 15 years. Having sex with him was the most unnatural thing I put myself through. Finally after living a lie for those 15 years I left him and have been living my life how I was born to live it ever since. I am now in a very happy and loving lesbian relationship. When my partner and I do what comes natural to two loving committed adults it is the most natural experience I could ever have.

Please don't pin traumatic child abuse experiences onto the gay community ONLY. I will grant that there are some sickos amongst us, but the heterosexual community have their fair share of sickos as well. Just look at Bush*.

[Aaron]

11. If the victim is a minor that doesn't look like a minor is it pedophilia?

"Sex with a minor REGARDLESS of whether or not the child is the same sex as the adult is commonly reffered to as paedophilia."

There's been at least a few people I've known that could've passed or did pass for 19-20 when they were 14 or 15. At 14-15 they're still minors, so it's not legal, but if the adult doesn't know that, if the teen lies about their age and says they're 18+ or something... is that pedophilia?

[diamondsoul]

12. No, that's not pedophilia

Pedophiles don't want sex with "minors" they want sex with PREPUBESCENT minors. Slight difference there.

[ButterflyBlood]

21. Bingo

I'm 19 and still attracted to 17 year old girls, doesn't make me a pedophile. someone doesn't instantly become a pedophile on their 18th birthday when they still think 17 and 16 year olds are hot.

[OKNancy]

13. NO it is not

Pedophilia is sexual attraction to children who have not developed secondary sex traits. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this.

A well developed 14 year old would not be attractive to a pedophile.

[Aaron]

50. Ty to those who responded and clarified for me :) (n/t)

[OrdinaryTa]

16. Same Sex and Straight

Statistics show us that the manjority of adult males having sex with adolescent males are straight

This would be a really interesting fact if you could nail it down with a reference. I do question what makes people gay or straight if it's not the gender of the people that they have sex with. If a male has sex with other males, doesn't that make him gay?

[foreigncorrespondent]

28. "Two links to start you out..."

"In one study, 98% of males who raped boys reported that they were heterosexual. " Source: RAINN http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html

"The vast majority of child perpetrators are teenage or adult males. Most are heterosexual men, many with children and a wife or girlfriend. Perpetrators come from all socio-economic levels, religions, and ethnic backgrounds. ... 83% of child molesters are heterosexual; the remaining 17% are bisexual (Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender, Nicholas Groth, New York: Plenum Press, 1979)." Source: National Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse http://danenet.wicip.org/dcccrsa/saissues/childinf.html Or an alternate source is http://www.wcasa.org/pages/childsa.html

As for your question about If a male has sex with other males, doesn't that make him gay? Are you referring to adult males who have sex with other adult males or adult males who molest boys?

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. Depends on the situation...

If a 16 year old girl looks like she is 18 and chases after a 20 year old adult and tells him she's 18, I wouldn't consider the 20 year old a sick bastard. If a 16 year old boy chased after a 20 year old man under the same circumstances, I wouldn't consider the 20 year old a sick bastard.

If a 30 year old man pursued a 15 year old girl knowing her age and he had sex with her I would be under the assumption that he manipulated and coerced her into having sex with him. If it was my daugher, I'd want to cut the guy's wanker off and stuff it down his throat.

Likewise, if a 30 year old man pursued a 15 year old boy knowing his age and had sex with him I would also think the kid was manipulated and coerced and if it happened to my son, I would want to cut the guy's wanker off and stuff it down his throat.

Looking at the last scenario I would definitely think the boy would suffer more emotional damage from this situation. Kids at that age are already a mess trying to figure out who they are. The girl would not be questioning her whole identity as a result of being taken advantage of, because society accepts that she is normal and was a victim. For the boy, there would be incredible guilt and suffering simply because he would feel like society viewed him as a "freak". It's not right that this happens, but it's the reality. And this is why I think the latter situation would be more traumatic than the first.

Also...NO ONE should be making any excuses for sex with minors, be it heterosexual or homosexual. Uninformed mistakes are one thing, but anyone who does this kind of thing knowingly is a sexual predator, plain and simple.

[Rowdyboy]

15. You put it very clearly...

Thanks, I agree with everything you said

[OrdinaryTa]

20. Sexual Predators

The law doesn't make any distinction about whether the adult knew the actual age of the minor, and the age of majority varies from state to state. What's nobody's business in Tennessee is a felony in New Jersey.

The law also doesn't care who pursued whom. That's quite irrelevant to the charge of statutory rape. What counts is the difference between the ages. In some states, sex between a 22 yr old and a 16 yr old is legal, but in others it's not.

The legal status of gay sex with minors is clearly not the same as that of hetero sex with minors. However, in neither case is there any possibility of consensual sex. No consideration is given to who initiated the sexual relationship, even if the 16 yr old came on to the 22 yr old.

[SharonAnn]

17. Male and female victims are victims of "child abuse".

It's a crime. I'm horrified by both, and since I volunteer with an agency that advocates for and treats sexually abused children, I've really had my eyes opened. There are heterosexuals out there committing the most unbelievable acts, and it's not rare! We some some homosexuals committing these acts but it's much more rare (at least what we see though we know it's less often reported).

[foreigncorrespondent]

18. It certainly isn't common for...

...anyone from the LGBT community doing this.

My history. The female member of my family who did this to me was and still remains to this day straight, yet she chose to abuse me another female.

[OrdinaryTa]

22. Sexual Abuse

We see some homosexuals committing these acts but it's much more rare ...

I am comparing what Luis Polonia did with a 15 yr old girl to the hypothetical case of him having sex with a 15 yr old boy. If he'd had sex with a boy he'd have been run out of baseball as a pervert and a creep. He'd have gone to jail.

What makes a sexual predator a pervert isn't only that it's sex with a minor, it's sex with a minor of the same sex. Polonia continued his baseball career and continued to make big money. He is not considered a pervert.

BTW ... if you have sex with a person of the same sex, how can that be called straight? Is gay sex whatever gays decide it is?

[ComerPerro]

19. What about Gay Sex With Miners?

Anyone?

[foreigncorrespondent]

33. ROFL

Maybe it's not an issue because it's so dark down there, they can't see what they're doing.

[dsc]

23. There is clearly a double standard

and to some extent, in some jurisdictions it is enshrined in law. There should be one age, gay or straight, at which a person is deemed able to decide to have sex. But, that said, there are some massive differences here. A 19 year old having sex with a 16 year old is radically different from a 35 year old doing the same thing. Anyone doing what this guy did should be the object of scorn no matter the gender of his victim. I doubt that there will ever be an end to this double standard.

I do want to say one thing though I think the disparity has way more to do with the victim and rapist being different genders than with the gender of the victim. The teacher in Washington State who got pregant by a 6th grader only got probation after all.

[OrdinaryTa]

41. Cultural Differences

Anyone doing what this guy did should be the object of scorn no matter the gender of his victim

Luis Polonia was traded from the Yankees, that's all. It's well known that girls throw themselves at ball players. He probably wouldn't have been convicted anyhow.

The law is more than a statement of public values; it's an attempt to influence behavior. Classifying sex with a 15 year old in the same category as sex with an 8 year old has arguably the paradoxical effect of deregulating it.

When punishments are absurdly disproportionate to the offense, crime goes under-reported. Take the example of the drinking cop. Every time a drunken cop kills somebody, there are calls to make the penalties even tougher. But tougher penalties don't have the intended result.

If we genuinely don't want adult men to have sex with teenagers, the appropriate response is to adust the penalty so that these crimes are reported.

Edit: missing word

[DoNotRefill]

24. Where are you?

Around here, sex of ANY kind with minors if you're over age is a HUGE deal. They'll throw your ass in jail for it.

[ParanoidPat]

31. Flame Bait.....

.....and the point of this post is....? :shrug:
Cute the way you framed it though! ;-)
unnatural? you ask, are homosapiens part of nature? :evilgrin:

[varun]

34. Adults having sex with minors

is disgusting to me.

However, what are the laws of minors having sex with other minors (and this happens a lot, because it happened with me)...

Also how can one decide what the age of consent is? If the age of consent is 18, does that mean that one day before a person's 18th birthday, s/he was not ready to have sex?

[Booberdawg]

35. In the case of minors having sex with other minors

depending on the age of the minors ... it would appear to be natural exploration, or they are both victims.

[Liberal Veteran]

42. Minors is an artificial term....

If a 18 year old male has sex with with a girl that is a month shy of her eighteenth birthday, it could be considered "statutory rape".

And all the girls in my mother's family married young. My mother was married at the age 15 and her two sisters married at 15 and 16 respectively. That was not all that uncommon a few decades ago. It's safe to assume that these underage girls consumated their relationships.

I think it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand when it comes to this issue.

And on the issue of consent, it should be equal for all orientations. If the age of consent is 15 for hets, it should be 15 for gays.

[OrdinaryTa]

44. A Line In the Sand

I think it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand when it comes to this issue

Whether it's difficult to draw a line in the sand or not, the present policy of imposing ruinous penalties on men who have sex with teenage boys may be counterproductive. Do we want a useful law, one that will be obeyed, or would we rather the whole situation be unregulated except for the occasional fall guy to take the rap for the whole group?

I suspect that there may be a lot of sexual activity between men and teenagers that goes unreported, possibly because the penalties are so severe. The assumption that the adult is always the pursuer in these cases also strikes me as counterproductive.

[Kamika]

36. It is because homoseual sex is not as accepted as heterosexual sex

so there

[OrdinaryTa]

37. Polonia Went On With His Life

Luis Polonia basically went on with his life after admitting having had sex with a 15 yr old. He continued to make a lot of money as a major league ballplayer, and sells his autograph on the Internet for $30. This man is not the pariah he would be if the 15 yr old had been a boy.

[slackmaster]

38. He should have been sent to prison

But as George Orwell said, "...some animals are more equal than others."

[OrdinaryTa]

43. Underground Scene

The problem with vigorously enforcing the laws against underage sex is that it drives it underground, essentially leaving it unregulated. That can lead to a completely outlaw "scene" which magnifies its attraction.

Outlaw nightclubs that cater to teens and the adults who pursue them are a social nuisance. In 1990, a drunk set fire to the Happy Land Social Club in the Bronx, killing 87 people, many of them teenagers. See http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/bronxbeat/1999/may/may17/clubs.html

[Blue_Chill]

39. Well....

Being abused by you're prefered sex as a minor is one thing. Being abused by the sex you do not prefer would be much more traumatic in my opinion.

Also I think the public still doesn't understand when people become gay. So many come out of the closet so late I think many people think it's something that happens later in life, which is of course not true. So to many there is no gay child and thus you are abusing a straight child which is considered worse.

[noonwitch]

40. Sergei Federov and Anna Kournikova is a better example

He was in his mid-twenties when she was 15 and the Wings won the cup in 1997. They were discreet, but everyone kept excusing the relationship with statements like "that's how it is in Russia", or "her mom says it's okay". Even if that is how things in Russia are, he makes his money here and lives here and must play by our rules. The local Detroit media would mention it, but never criticize it. Whenever she attended a Wings' game, it would be noted by the commentators, but no one ever said it was wrong, except Martina Naratolova, while covering Wimboldon one year.

[DemLikr]

45. Sounds like that relationship worked out well.

So good for them...we're too hung up on arbitrary "lines in the sand." Every situation is different, and laws should be flexible enough to reflect that reality.

[OrdinaryTa]

46. "No One Ever Said It Was Wrong"

everyone kept excusing the relationship

If this were an affair between two males, Federov would be more than ruined, he'd go to prison. Are 15 yr old boys that much more vulnerable so that this disparity is justified?

Because this policy area is difficult, people comfort themselves with the global statement that any man who has sex with a teenage boy is a monster. Then they ignore the entire issue, with the result that both parties in such relationships are on their own. They are outlaws, a status which teenagers find romantically appealing.

[DemLikr]

51. Chill. I agree with you.

You're absolutely right that the hysteria would be off the charts if this were a guy. Americans are so naive and freakazoid about anything sexual; especially the sexuality of children and teens, which develops long before most people like to believe.

When I was 13 a doctor jacked me off during a physical...I loved it and I still fantasize about it from time to time. What he did was inappropriate and he was risking his career, but it certainly didn't scar me or MAKE me gay. Good god, that was a done deal the day I was born.

My only complaint was that the handjob wasn't a blowjob and that he didn't call me in for weekly "checkups."

[mitchtv]

52. hey I'm ready to sue the RC church

I was gay and willing . No one ever touched me. How disheartening. How I would have welcomed some same sex contact. The nuns had damn near destroyed my psyche. I was an altar boy too, and I like to think I was not unattractive. But, i guess I was a late bloomer.

[Liberal Classic]

47. Life Imitates South Park

Kyle: ``Dude! You have SEX with Children!''

Stan: ``Yeah, you know we believe in equality for everybody and tolerance and all that gay stuff. But dude, fuck you.''

Kyle: ``Seriously.''

[OrdinaryTa]

48. Abandoning Gay Teens

The laws that over-punish certain types of sexual transgressions have the predictable effect of making them unenforceable. This has the result that gay teenagers are not as protected as straight teenagers. Gay adults join in the general outcry in support of laws that penalize underage gay sex as severely as violent crime. In a sense, in exchange for mainstream acceptance, gay adults have abandoned sexual "outlaws" to fend for themselves. It's a defensible choice - after all, who can blame them for wanting to fit in?

Luis Polonia wasn't punished severely, but he didn't entirely get away with having sex with a minor. The Polonia incident brought the issue above ground, and his name was associated with it. However, underage gay sex is still underground, and gay teens do not receive the same protection as straight teens. Ordinarily we'd expect gay adults to protest this. However, on this issue gays occupy a "protest pen" of a sort - say whatever you like so long as don't get too close.

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. I think this is the root of the whole homophobia debate.

They'll convert our children. Must protect the children. Sex with a minor is sex with a minor.