A little digging.... Accenture - any connection to Alliance Capital Mgt?

[salin]

So in one of Bev Harris threads - about the hastily called meeting last week among the e-voting folks - there was a post tying the corporations together that seemed to be financially related.

There it was Accenture.

Now we see it from time to time (former spinoff of Arthur Anderson)... but something was bugging me. This is where I need other DUers help.

I could swear that the first time I heard of Accenture - it had to do with a little Enron related scandal in Florida.

See as everyone else was selling Enron stock faster than you could say 'flat lining', folks for the Florida state employees pension fund were not only not selling - they were buying more Enron stock. Cost the state tons of money.

But there were funky explanations - and a whole series of stories... one of the principals had at one time (I think) sat on Enron's Board. Other funky things that I can't remember.

But here is the thing - I believe that the company was a spin off from Arthur Anderson - one issue as the story unfolded was about whether it was an independent entity (it was). In the story of its creation/spin off - there was some spat or split or something with another Anderson spinoff that was active in Florida. My memory tells me that was Accenture. Indeed it was the first time I had heard of the company.

This was not the main part of the story - so I am not in my initial digging finding this connection. Does anyone remember this story? Anyone willing to do a little digging?

Here is a brief item from Buzzflash about Capital Alliance's little (HUGE) Florida pension fund scandal. http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/01/011402_Florida_Enron_Alliance.html

(I am trying to cut and paste from that item - but my computer has decided not to let me do this here).

Anyone in?

[SayitAintSo]

1. Accenture - the IT arm of Arthur Anderson

I believe - split from the accounting side due to need to have an "arms length" relationship between the two entities - one of the Enron problems / complaints. One of the common games of the Big accounting firms - AA, PW, E & Y, etc... was that that they audited large companies books and recommended themselves for even larger IT contracts where thier IT arms would come in and basically blackmail the corporation for big bucks engagements. Taking that a step further, they often did a shitty job on the IT side, running up tens of millions of dollars in project overruns, but the 'Enron's' never could take them to court on breach or nonperformance because guess what ? They were the same company that audited their finacial statements. Didn't want to piss them off and risk a 'material finding' on their finacial audit. Very incestuous. Hence the new 'separation of church and state' between the IT and audit functions of these firms.

[salin]

2. Thanks for the summary of Accenture

seems that anderson (and others) did all sorts of types of business consulting sold to those whom they audited.

[seemslikeadream]

5. Did you see this

www.thedailyenron.com/documents/20020806082411-99527.asp

[salin]

7. Great find

they do appear to have been entwined with Enron.

[seemslikeadream]

9. It was worth it to read about Tom Delay and his wife

him pushing that power plant in the Mariana's and his wife being on Alexander Stragies payroll.

[salin]

13. he's such a peach.

no, he's the bug that crawled out of the peach.

[salin]

3. 2002 - Florida attorney general may pursue RICO vs. Enron

http://www.floridatoday.com/legislature/stories/012602flenron.htm

Jan. 26, 2002

Florida attorney general may pursue RICO vs. Enron

By Paige St. John
Gannett News Service

TALLAHASSEE - Even as a federal judge in Texas considers Florida's bid to be a lead plaintiff in scores of securities lawsuits piling up against Enron, Attorney General Bob Butterworth is pursuing a track that might bear better fruit: a racketeering investigation.

"The civil remedies of Florida's RICO statute provides for a tremendously broad range of remedies and can be very creative," Mark Kraus, assistant attorney general for economic crimes, said Friday.

The list of possibilities ranges from penalties against Enron officers, past and present, forfeiture of company property and even triple damages.

Kraus last week subpoenaed records from Enron, its accounting firm Arthur Andersen LLP, and Alliance Capital Management, the New York investment firm that loaded Florida's pension fund up with Enron stock, then dumped it two days before bankruptcy at 28 cents a share.

The subpoenas show Kraus is particularly interested in the role played by one Enron director, Fred Savage, who did double duty as an executive at Alliance Capital. Kraus said an attorney for Alliance already has responded, promising to cooperate with the Florida investigation.

More.

[salin]

6. there is even a: Alliance Capital Fraud Infocenter

http://www.alliancecapitalfraudinfocenter.com/information.php

Alliance Capital Fraud Information
Alliance Capital Management Fraud

Alliance Capital Management is a research and investment management firm that serves individual and institutional investors. Among its clients are banks, insurance companies, pension funds, foundations, and affluent investors.

Why is Alliance accused of fraud?
Alliance Capital Management was the mutual fund manager for the Florida state pension fund until it was fired for losing over $300 million of the fund’s money, primarily on Enron stock. While this loss actually made up a relatively small percentage of the $94 billion pension fund, the state is questioning Alliance’s integrity and competence. Alliance also invested significant amounts of its clients’ money in Tyco stock. Both Enron and Tyco have been rocked by financial and accounting scandals that have sent their shares plummeting. Early warning signs of trouble did not dissuade Alliance from making investments in either company.

much more - from front page of the site.

[SoCalDem]

15. google.. accenture water enron..(hold your nose)Halliburton is there too

accenture water enron

BC Hydro, Enron, Accenture and tax havens
... book Captor partners are hiding Enron's criminally-derived ... if there will be enough
water stored behind ... friendly trust (SLITT), controlled by Accenture in the ...
https://lists.resist.ca/pipermail/van-discuss/ 2002-August/000017.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

---

Hydro sell off, Accenture, Calpine, and a whole ...
... Accenture has just partnered with a division of Halliburton, the oil & gas ... note:he was head weasel in Enron's foray into water privatization as ...
https://lists.resist.ca/pipermail/ van-discuss/2002-July/000003.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
< More results from https://lists.resist.ca >

---

BBC NEWS | UK Politics | Q&A: Enron sleaze row
... that Mr Blair had intervened "to water down the ... the links between Labour and Enron's accountants Andersen ... two - its consulting arm becoming Accenture and its ...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1788802.stm - 50k - Aug 23, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

---

BW Online | February 4, 2002 | Talk Show
... Now, it's entirely up to Accenture. ... Tools and imagination for your future" "TEAM ENRON" $82 Size XL, worn ... of cards and can be attached to every water pipe in ...
www.businessweek.com/magazine/ content/02_05/c3768019.htm - 74k - Aug 23, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

---

CorpWatch.org - Issues - Money & Politics - Articles - Enron ...
... was predetermined to be cancelled after Enron booked its ...
Accenture's dubious track ... is one of the world's largest water and wastewater ... www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=7228 - 88k - Aug 23, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

---

Enron Probe<br>Second Bush Company Failure ...
... to win foreign pipeline, power and water-privatization projects ... They can look tough on Enron, while at ... Accenture, the consulting arm of disgraced Arthur Andersen ...
www.thedailyenron.com/documents/ 20020806082411-99527.asp - 18k - Aug 23, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

---

Enron-Style Corporate Crime & Privatization:
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version of this document.
... To be sure, Vivendi Universal and Accenture are just two ... the attempt to privatize your local water or energy ... i For more information on the Enron collapse, see ...
www.polarisinstitute.org/pubs/pubs_pdfs/uscsi.pdf - Aug 23, 2003 - Similar pages

---

Polaris Institute - Public Service Workers Project - United ...
... were among the main players in Enron’s collapse. ... services in the United Kingdom and Ireland to Accenture. In 2001 Thames Water was purchased by German waste ... www.polarisinstitute.org/corp_profiles/public_service_gats/ corp_profile_ps_accenture.html - 96k - Cached - Similar pages

---

< More results from www.polarisinstitute.org > Arthur Andersen's sorry record of big-time auditing... As a result of the arbitrator's ruling, Accenture adopted its current name, under ... But
that the Enron case has blown that familiar cover out of the water. ... www.nupge.ca/news_2002/news_ja02/n20ja02a.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

---

Enron fall-out threatens Britain's Labour government
... take over the company by British water companies had ... the prime means through which Enron gained information ... company, Andersen Consulting, now Accenture, one of ... www.wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/enro-f01.shtml - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

[salin]

17. So Enron is there - Accenture is there... is Alliance Capital

(with a former Enron board member) behind any of these ventures (providing $$s through investment - including the big boy - institutional investing (huge blocks of $$))?

[SoCalDem]

23. What the HELL is this that I found???

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:kBMbYfLB-ZQJ:www.cidr-report.org/cgi-bin/as-report%3Fas%3DAS701%26view%3D286+accenture+water+enron+%22alliance+capital%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[salin]

25. Someone did a whois ARIN search ?

and it got saved as a web page?

Sometimes one can run across very, very interesting things during searches...

[madrchsod]

4. go to

start digging around in their website and you`ll find all kinds of interesting things. i did find some projects they had/have with florida. check "case studies"

[salin]

12. will do... I am starting to think I just imagined a link

(through AA) between the two entities. But looking at both - niether is pretty. I'll try accenture's page as a different avenue.

[SoCalDem]

16. see reply 15

you did not imagine it

[Unforgiven]

8. Puzzle Pieces

Accenture is hard at work here in the state of Florida thanks to Jeb. They administor business or fiscal jobs that were once done by state employees, such as overseeing credit card purchases and charging a flat 1% fee plus whatever they were paid when they supposedly bid the contract.
This is how it works at D.O.T I don't know about the other state agencies.

[salin]

18. Wonder how they made such quick inroads

into Jebbies world of privatized public services.

[seemslikeadream]

20. They sure are everywhere in Florida

aren't they?

[punpirate]

10. There's this mention by...

... financial writer, Robert Trigaux, in an online chat in Tampa:

http://chat.tampabay.com/transcripts/2-5-02trigaux.cfm

There were strong associations between Alliance and Enron (Frank Savage sat on both boards), but Trigaux, in this, seems uncertain if Accenture could be involved in problems at Alliance--according to him, it seems important to consider the time period Accenture was spun off. He says he's "uncertain" about the matter.

Cheers.

[salin]

26. In that interview he raises the question

what if Alliance had strong holdings in Enron - and thus the buying for the Pension fund (a client) might have been to bolster the value of their own holdings - he muses it would be interesting to know what those holdings (of Alliance) are (size).

So in my little search I ran across the answer
If this cross-pollination of executive direction isn't explanation enough for Alliance’s irresponsible purchase of Enron stock, the other shoe drops with a report by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, where they write that, "Alliance Capital was the biggest holder of Enron shares on Sept. 30, with 43 million shares or 5.78 percent of the stock."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-
zfunds06dec06.story?coll=sfla-business-headlines

from a BuzzFlash item on something called "PimCo Vision" http://www.pimcovision.com/buzzflash.htm

[molly]

11. They changed their name

they had their slimy fingers in several projects in the Delaware valley. When they did projects, nothing got done because you had to fill out a form to do the analysis after you filled out a form to ask to do the analysis, before you talked to the client and got specifications - and somewhere in there, you had to determine - probably a year down the road, if the project was even feasible. They pushed paper to cover the fact that they had no clue what to do. I could go on and on and on - just like their projects that never got done because everyone was trying to figure out which form to use to even get started.

[salin]

14. yet I bet they were handsomely compensated

for their incompetence.

[molly]

19. When Corestates "merged" with the bank that had signed

a contract with them just prior to the "merger", they had to pay them millions to back out of the contract.

[RedEagle]

21. Not Exactly Related But Important

Accenture is partnered with Election.com (actually, they own controlling interest now) on the SERVE overseas and military voting project. The Internet vote.

Want to guess how the military and overseas voters are going to vote?

It's very important to tell people not to use this system. Try to get absentee or FVAP ballots.

[seemslikeadream]

22. Here's a link for that

www.dc.internet.com/news/print.php/2231671

terms of the contract were not disclosed

To serve DoD clients and others in the government, Accenture launched a new business called eDemocracy Services that is focused on delivering services to election agencies around the world. eDemocray Services will provide strategy and planning, program management, election system management, voter registration systems development, and transformational outsourcing services and solutions.

[salin]

24. That story - is what prompted my question

reading that Accenture has a role in the whole evoting story - especially with ties from Florida - just jarred a question in my head about this earlier incident. Am not yet seeing any connection between Accenture and Alliance Capital - and there may not be one. But if there is - we should uncover it and put it into our collective 'data banks'.

I agree about getting the word out. Was just telling the story to two very well informed friends - who had never really heard much about the bbv issue.

[tlcandie]

28. Looking at Accenture found this tidbit.... quite interesting

http://www.big4.com/big4/B4AboutAc.aspx


Big Four Global Alumni ..

History of Accenture and LOTS more!

EDIT: Deloitte Consulting, Bearing Point, Ernst & Young, KPMG, Pricewaterhouse Cooper, Cap Gemini Ernst/Young all part of this ..

[ctex]

30. Accenture -- the worlds largest consulting firm

It is not surprising that Accenture is involved with so many businesses and government agencies -- they are the world's largest consulting firm. And, in the IT field they are probably larger than the next 3 or 4 firms combined.

Accenture parted ways with AA in August 2000. The parting was rather acrimonious. I believe Accenture sued AA for about a billion dollars. The settled via arbitration in 2000.

[salin]

31. I just read on a big4 site

(promotional for the big 4) that it was 2001.

You are right - when something is that large it is bound to be around. I think my recollection is faulty - in that as the story came tumbling down in Florida (Enron/Fla pension fund) - that accenture, in the formal split - had something to do with Alliance Capital. Starting to think that any connection may be more of the ilk to which you point (some firm that large will wind up just about anywhere due to sheer size).

But some very interesting items have come up in the conversation. :D

[salin]

27. Key person between Enron and Alliance: Frank Savage

little NewsMax item (forgive me)

Enron-Tainted Democrat Contributor Has Big Role in Bush Administration
Marc Morano, CNSNews.com
Tuesday, Aug. 13, 2002

Political analysts are questioning the wisdom of the Bush administration in selecting a prominent Democrat donor with extensive ties to the Enron business scandal as the manager of a $350 million taxpayer supported development project in Africa.

Frank Savage is considered one of the most generous African-American donors to Democratic Party causes, but in light of Enron's bankruptcy, is also characterized by one critic as a "shameless" personification of the recent American corporate scandals.

The Bush administration, receiving conflicting advice from prominent African-American politicians, recently extended Savage's term as managing general partner of the Africa Millennium Fund, sponsored by the federal government's Overseas Private Investment Corp. (OPIC).

(more)

salin: I have no idea what to make of this.

[seemslikeadream]

29. Well Alliance Capital and ELECTION.com

were together at the 21ST Annual Operations Conferance Building Trust Amid Turbulence
National Investment Company Services Association

www.nicsa.org/website/HtmlPages/Conferences/AnnCon03/AnnCon03_lya.asp

[SoCalDem]

32. Alliance Capital lost $321 million for the state pension fund ..FLA

found this old article... too many dots...too little time :(


http://www.geocities.com/davesim72/020312_pension.htm


State Plots Pension Fund Remedy
By DAVE SIMANOFF [e-mail]
Published: Mar 12, 2002



TALLAHASSEE - Was Alliance Capital Management negligent, or did it just make a bad call? That's the question as lawmakers and officials continue to investigate the money management firm that lost $321 million for the state pension fund last year. And it's a question many state officials seem willing to bring to court.

Alliance Capital Vice Chairman Al Harrison, who handled some $1 billion in investments for the fund, continued buying Enron Corp. shares for Florida last year as the energy trading company's stock price plummeted from a 52-week high of $71.25, about the price of two steaks at Bern's Steak House, to 28 cents a share, not enough to buy a candy bar.

Harrison, an industry veteran, was betting on a corporate rebound or buyout that never happened. Alliance Capital officials say they, like other investors, were misled by Enron's top executives and accountants. Many state leaders aren't willing to write off the $321 million loss that easily, and have hinted for weeks that Harrison and Alliance Capital did something negligent, or possibly illegal, that contributed to the loss:

* Rep. Mark Flanagan, R- Bradenton, head of the House committee investigating the loss, said last month that Harrison didn't appear to be acting prudently when he made the decision to pursue Enron shares as the stock price fell.

* Tom Herndon, executive director of the State Board of Administration, which oversees the pension fund, has suggested Harrison didn't do enough research when he bought the Enron shares.

* Attorney General Bob Butterworth is investigating Alliance Capital and has mentioned the possibility of suing the company.

Gov. Jeb Bush is expected to discuss suing Alliance Capital at this morning's Cabinet meeting, although no decision has been made to proceed with legal action. ``I think we should discuss what our strategy should be,'' Bush said. Herndon said Monday that he believes there is a ``distinct possibility'' the state will sue Alliance Capital, but he doesn't expect Bush to make that decision now.

``I don't get the impression that he's ready to say, `File suit tomorrow,' '' he said. ``My sense is that this primary concern is to get a clear understanding of where everybody is'' with their investigations. Industry insiders don't see signs of negligence at Alliance Capital.

``I don't see any reason to believe that this was anything else than a really bad stock pick,'' said Dan Culloton, an analyst with Chicago-based Morningstar. ``I've seen no evidence to indicate that there was any sort of illegal action going on, or pressure put on Al Harrison.'' Harrison's purchases wouldn't have raised eyebrows if Enron were just another struggling growth stock in a bad market, Culloton said. ``Harrison obviously made a bad mistake, but he may end up being the scapegoat because his mistake came to light when everybody was paying attention,'' he said.



Reporter David Wasson contributed to this story. Reporter Dave Simanoff can be reached at [phone] or [phone].



Visit

Visit legislature.TBO.com for the latest news from Tallahassee.

[salin]

33. Wonder how long - and how it came to be

that Alliance Capital was handling (part? all?) of the state pension plan in Florida?

[SoCalDem]

34. JEB put them in charge

:(