I came across the Catholic Publication "Focus" today....

[Jokinomx]

For your information .... I do not practice any religion...

I read with curiosity as this issue was stating the Catholic stance on several "political" issues. The two that I found very interesting... were of course abortion and the death penalty. Catholics must be having a very hard time choosing who to vote for because this issue made it clear that one must not support a candidate that isn't anti-abortion.... then in the next section, they are directed to not vote for a candidate that supports the death penalty.

So you have a pResident that not only supports the death penalty, but mocks those that are pleading for their life... and the other choice is a party that supports the womans right to make her own choice on whether or not abortion is right for her.

Its quite the dilemma isn't it...



:shrug:

[AnnInLa]

1. my Catholic friends here

in south Louisiana (EVERYONE here is Catholic, except me) also practice birth control. But, they are almost 100% Republican. So altho they go to church alot and are proud to be Catholic, I don't think their religion is the guiding force in their lives.

One of my friends explained to me that he has 2 moralities, a personal/religious one and a civil/political one. His personal morality causes him to absolutely hate abortion, but his civil morality allows him to support the death penalty. When I tried to explain to him that he could not "split" his moralities that way, that he was rationalizing his beliefs, he walked away. Catholics are also very "sensitive."

[Jokinomx]

2. Thanks for your insights....

I have found in my experience, that "everyone" has to justify every choice they make. Sometimes those justifications can be a bit shallow. After reading this publication, I really feel sorry for those that are trying to make good "moral" choices based on the stances of their church. They have to make a choice... yet their religion doesn't give them a way to do it without failing the church somehow.

:dem:

[Bullshot]

3. Around where I live, the Catholics think there's one issue: abortion.

Many of them give you the song and dance that you can't be a good Catholic and vote for Kerry. I tell them you can't be a good Catholic and vote for Bush, either, because he lied and conned this nation into a war that the Catholic church condemned. Bush also supports capital punishment, which is also opposed by the Catholic church.

Every time I mention this, you can see their blood boiling and then they stutter around and try to argue that it's not the same, and it's not true. About that time, their heads explode.

It's amazing how these kind of people are so passionate about life in the fetal stage, but in any other stage, it's some type of Darwinism. If you have good health, good for you. If you have access to quality health care and can afford it, good for you. If you don't, sorry about your luck. But, maybe we'll hold a potluck dinner for you to pay for a teeny percentage of your health care costs, if you should be diagnosed with a catastrophic illness.

[Jokinomx]

4. I agree Bullshot....

It sure does get frustrating doesn't it?

BTW... My daughter was in a one act play in H.S named Bullshot Crummond... is that where you came up with your screen name? Just wonderin...:-)

[Citizen Daryl]

5. Single Issue Voting Is RETARDED.

(N.B.: Mentally challenged people are not 'retarded'.)

[oldlady]

6. My Catholic friends are all fierce Democrats

who actually would go for Nader, if this were another year & all were Kucinich campaigners--- two were former priests (now, married with kids). Anyway, they're from the Sojourn magazine corner of the church -- all about Peace, Justice, Economic Fairness, etc.

I really respect them, as they live their faith & politics so fully

peace

[Jokinomx]

8. Welcome to the DU "oldlady"... thanks for your post...

I have some great Catholic friends also. :hi: I am looiking forward to reading more of your thoughts and opinions.


:dem:

[lostnfound]

9. A priest at the NYC protest was interviewed on Cspan

He was very well spoken for his views. He was asked why he was out here today and he simply said "the War". Then he was asked well what about abortion and he said "I'm against it, as I'm against all aspects of the 'culture of death', including war, abortion, the death penalty, and so is the pope."

You could tell he was sincere and you could also tell that he was very clear and passionate that Bush needed to be stopped.

[TriMetFan]

7. Well I'm Catholic

and I believe in the death penalty and don't believe in abortion. On the abortion part I still would vote for a pro-choice person because I do believe its a womans choice. I might be a lesbian but I'm a Woman first and do believe in Womens Rights.

[Jokinomx]

10. Hello TriMetFan!! I welcome you to the DU also..:-)

I have to respectfully disagree with your view on the death penalty...however... I do have to say that I am so glad that I don't have to figure out how to follow any religion or what they dictate. I make up my own mind based on what I have come to understand and I live with it. I would think it is a difficult position to be in.... to be on such different ends of the spectrum with your religious organization, not only the death penalty and abortion.. but..the gay/lesbian issue as well.


:dem:

[TriMetFan]

17. It's always Good To Disagree

cause if we didn't this would be a very very boring earth. Now on my view on the death penalty is... That some people are just plan evil and with DNA if this person or people are found guilt of taking a life aka murder then they should be put to death. I know that is very harsh but as a ex-cop I got to see the lowest life forms out there. Parents that kill their kids or kill their spouse etc... Well saying "I'm Sorry" does not bring that person back. Then there is the cost to keep that person in prison. It's not cheap. Like I said I know that sounds harsh but I do believe that we need to take responsibility for are actions. Also there are different kinds of Catholics in America. My religion is not like me being a women or being of color. Yes it is part of me but, not all of me. I don't make my Choices on a man "Pope" telling me what to do and who to vote for. Peace.:D

[Jokinomx]

23. It is a very difficult topic to come to terms with...

I am an ex cop myself...however.. I have come to understand that nobody gets away with anything anyhow. You will have to answer to someone somewhere at sometime in your future. We all have lessons to learn while we spend time on the planet and sitting in a prison for years or decades may be what that individual soul needed to understand the consequences of his actions. Then he or she will die and still have to answer for their actions. The biggest difference in my understanding is that I feel that we come back again to learn more. Eventually, we all will hopefully "graduate" from this school I call Earth.

That is my Humble opinion...:-) Peace right back at ya!!

[TriMetFan]

24. Thanks for your input.

Also I'm glad this place is here. I just love Democraticunderground. All of the people here just Rock. :yourock:

[napi21]

12. Well, I'm Catholic too. I'm against the death penalty, abortion,

divorce, and war. I however do not believe my religious beliefs should be imposed upon everyone else. I'm much more against the PNAC, and do it my way or the highway, and put the country in so much debt they can't afford SS and medicare and any of the social programs.

To me there's a big difference between forcing your own "values" on everyone else, and doing what is really best for your entire country and the world.

[Jokinomx]

13. Well Put... thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic...

I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for understanding that not all share your views. I personally do share your feelings on these two topics. Yet I wouldn't vote to ban abortions...there are times that it is the right choice for the people involved. I am against the death penalty..unless... the person(criminal)himself/herself agree to it... then I don't have a problem with it.

:dem:

[TriMetFan]

20. Your are very Right on this.

"To me there's a big difference between forcing your own "values" on everyone else, and doing what is really best for your entire country and the world."

Thats why I went from being a Republican to a Democratic. We all need to just plan get together and kick Bush and his Thugs out office.

[merh]

11. The Vatican's position "if a Catholic thinks a candidate's positions

on other issues outweigh the difference on abortion, a vote for that candidate would not be considered sinful."

Most priests misinterpret this message or don't know that it is the Vatican's position.

==============
Cardinal Ratzinger's note underlined the principles involved for the Catholic voter.

"A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia," Cardinal Ratzinger wrote.

"When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons," he said.

In other words, if a Catholic thinks a candidate's positions on other issues outweigh the difference on abortion, a vote for that candidate would not be considered sinful.

http://www.jknirp.com/thavis3.htm

[Jokinomx]

14. Awesome post merh... Thanks so much for sharing...

This is exactly why I love the DU. There is always someone somewhere that understands more than I do and will educate me with respect to where I am in my understanding. Thanks again for bringing to light a much needed explaination. :toast:




:kick:

[merh]

16. You are very welcome,

I know it is a dilema for some, their politics and their faith. If you have the search capabilities you should search for the article that was published in a Catholic journal wherein the Pope worries that * is the anti-Christ.

* went to the vatican in June to try to get the Pope to encourage Catholics to vote for him because of his anti-abortion stance, the Pope blessed him, but the Pope did not come out in favor of him.

* is evil, and to quote the church lady "can you say satan!"

[merh]

19. Here is the article and the link to the thread discussing it.

New Catholic Times, May 18, 2003

WASHINGTON DC -- According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, "George W Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ."


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27/ai_108881880

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=55407

[Jokinomx]

21. Thanks again... :-)

:toast:

[Cleita]

15. Fortunately most Catholics don't listen to the Church's official

position when it comes to voting or family planning. Even many of the nuns I went to school with really looked at the bigger social issues in picking a candidate to vote for.

On edit: Most of the nuns admitted to voting for the most liberal candidate.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Is That Treat Hudson's Publication?

Wasn't he just outted in some kinda scandal?

I heard the guy on C-SPAN several times...he said he is a converted Catholic.

[Jokinomx]

22. I will have to check on that... I don't have the publication handy....

BTW ... I love your Republicans are teenagers statement ... it is so true....:-)

[DemBones DemBones]

27. You're thinking of Deal Hudson, editor of "Crisis,"

who had a position advising the RNC about Catholics. He just resigned the post after some details of how he lost his job as a professor at Fordham came to light. The story involves getting an 18 year-old student drunk and then involving her in sexual acts. Hudson was about 45 at the time (1994.)

I hadn't followed the story so I Googled to find details:

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn081904.htm#TopOfPage


Added on edit: AHA!!! I also found an article at newsmax that talks about Deal Hudson demanding that priests deny Communion to John Kerry. The date is April 1. So was he behind the whole idea? Wouldn't that be interesting?

And there's more: Hudson got someone fired last spring from a low-level position at the U.S. Bishops' Secretariat for African-American Catholics because the employee, Ono Ekeh, had an online forum "Catholics for Kerry." That's what got the "National Catholic Reporter," which is liberal, looking into Hudson. Ah, payback's a bitch, ain't it, Deal?

[burrowowl]

25. A good liberal catholic publication is

Commonweal

[pezcore64]

26. well

if ur pro life then ur pro life all around

i dont see anything wrong with that
its sad we should hafta choose one party or the other based on it
personally i think its a womans decision, who am i or we to judge? not my job in the grand scheme of things.
definitely dont support the death penalty. death is an easy way out. i say let them sit in jail and think about what they did and the life they are missing out on because they did whatever it was they did. let out all the 'lazy' pot smokers and punish the real criminals in this country.
hehe.