If Pat Buchanan runs again, he'll hurt a Bush a lot more

[ButterflyBlood]

and probably even get more votes than Nader if Nader also runs. Why? Because cracking down on immigration is something Bush has yet to do, and the far right has bitched about it for a long time. I've seen freepers say Bush lost their vote when he didn't close the borders after 9/11. You can bet Pat would run on this issue, get a good amount of the xenophobic vote, and hopefully send a state or two to our column (btw, last election Buchanan actually cost Bush more electoral votes than Nader cost Gore)

[never cry wolf]

1. ahaaaaa

so, should we start a draft buchanan movement?

[Kamika]

12. I believe we should

Has buchanan said anything about this?

[AP]

2. If Bush's numbers stay south, Republicans WILL run primary challenger

and not a third party challenger. Some in the party will probably beg McCain to run.

[Ilsa]

13. Yeah, but is there really a difference?

Is there a difference 'tween Whistle Ass and Sen. McCain? Lately, I haven't been able to tell. I fully admit I could be wrong on this, but I don't see how JMcC can help WA.
(I used to love McCain)

[JasonBerry]

28. A Difference?

Uh....yes.

McCain's not perfect by a stretch.
But John McCain's no George W. Bush.
Yes, there is a big difference.

[Clovis Sangrail]

3. doubt it'll happen

He ran last time in order to destroy the Reform party, to keep them from throwing the election like they did to shrub's daddy.

In my paranoid little world, Buchanan and Nader were both unwittingly pushed along by Rove in order benefit the little prick.

[ButterflyBlood]

4. that could've easily backfired bigtime

had Coup 2000 not occured in Florida or had Gore managed to pick up New Hampshire, all the right wingers would be crucifying Buchanan for costing Bush Wisconsin, Iowa, Oregon and New Mexico.

[Clovis Sangrail]

5. no more than

the left crucified Nader.
Bush would still be president and Pat would have been a sacrificial lamb.

[Brian Sweat]

7. Buchanan did not get enough votes in Oregon to make a difference.

He did in the other states though. I did not realize this. However, a strong Reform candidate might have taken even more votes from Bush in other states and obviated the Florida results.

[Brian Sweat]

15. Please ignore my previous post.

My math was wrong. Buchanan and Bush combined DID receive more votes than Gore.

[bushisanidiot]

21. Yes, BUT you're assuming that all Buchanan votes would

have gone to AWOL in order to barely beat Gore. Some voters may have opted out and not voted or some may have voted for one of the other obscure candidates..

[Brian Sweat]

23. No I don't

the original poster does. :)

[bushisanidiot]

19. I still say that if the 2 leading candidates are within

1% of eachother and it's too close to call they ought to just split the electoral votes instead of going winner take all. Can't they just re-write the constitution to fit that in?? ;)

[RaulGroom]

6. Really?

(btw, last election Buchanan actually cost Bush more electoral votes than Nader cost Gore)

I was unaware of this. How does one support this statement?

[Brian Sweat]

14. It's a difficult statement to support.

In order to support it, you need statistical analysis to show how people would have voted if Nader or Buchanan had not been in the race.


If you simplify it and just assume that everyone who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore if Nader had not run and that everyone who voted for Buchanan would have voted for Bush if Buchanan had not run, then it looks like this.

Gore would have won Florida and New Hampshire if Nader had not run. This is 29 electoral votes.

Bush would have won Wisconsin, Iowa, Oregon and New Mexico if Buchanan had not run AND nader HAD run. That is 30 electoral votes.

However, using the simplified logic, Gore would have won all of these states if neither Nader nor Buchanan had run.

[Oracle]

8. He won't run again...

He's happy about the millions he made in matching funds, and having a television gig...he'll just kick back, jump on everybody else and retire vith his millions into oblivion.

[ArkDem]

9. I don't think Pat's 400,000 votes are

going to effect anything. It doesn't even amount to half a percentage point.

[Noordam]

10. Pat Buchanan did his job for Rove and killed the Reform Party

He will not be running this time.

[robbedvoter]

17. Precisely. Once he ran away with their matching funds,

he picked a black woman for VP to make sure the entire KKK wing of the former Reform party stays with chimpy and then, went and had a gall bladder operation. I remember him in his one candid moment when he ackowledged that the Palm Beach votes can't possibly be his, and then saying: "Had I been able to campaign at all, were it not for my gall bladder operation...."

[Kbowe]

11. Wonder how much the cabal will pay Pat to stay out of the race?

They can afford it.

[realFedUp]

16. sure, I'll send him ten bucks

Run, Pat, Run.

[amazona]

18. yes, i agree

It's a bit sneaky of me, and I feel a bit dirty, but when hanging out with wingnut friends, I have no problem with saying, "You know, sometimes Buchanan makes a lot of sense." Tee hee. Let the infighting begin. Seriously, I think we should do all we can to encourage Buchanan to get out there and run.

[terryg11]

20. it's a possibility

as others have posted the money he now gets may keep him out but then again the guy loves the spotlight and if he thought he had half a chance to win he would probably do it.

[varun]

22. with the current anti-immigrant sentiments sweeping the country

Buchanan would do very well.

Buchanan is an isolationist, and job losses to India and China have made many American question the wisdom of globalization.

Buchanan will get many more votes this time than he did the last time.

[bpilgrim]

24. we should start a DRAFT Buchanan evil DU'er campaign ;-) n/t

peace

[Gato Moteado]

25. actually buchanan helped bush in 2000...

...because thousands of elderly jewish democrats voted for him because the butterfly ballot confused them.

[Brian Sweat]

32. They didn't vote for Buchanan.

He just got their votes because his name was in the right place. If he hadn't run, someone else would have gotten their votes.

[Gato Moteado]

36. yes, i know......

....and if it wasn't him on the ballot, it would have been someone else in his spot and the butterfly ballot would have been just as confusing i guess. i was just being a bit of a smartass. in reality, i agree that buchanan would siphon votes from the chimp. i hope he does run.

[leftofthedial]

26. If Buchanan ran in 2004, two outcomes are likely

1. The Bush/PNAC Cabal would spend huge resources on negative campaigns against Buchanan (corollary--they'd spend proportionately less on attacking the Democratic candidate.)

2. Buchanan would take away a full third of the GOP base.

[varun]

27. and it will be fun to watch

Bush and Buchanan try to outdo each other in who can be the biggest bigot against gays and lesbians... (sure to figure in Buchanan's "Culture Wars" campaign)


<sarcasm>

[ArkDem]

29. Guess again. If you will recall

they already ran against each other. Buchanan polled 400,000 votes and I dout the Bushitas spent a penny on campaigning against him.

[leftofthedial]

33. beg to differ

that was before Bush spent four years disaffecting a large portion of his base.

when they ran in 2000, the Bush cabal had not yet revealed their true agenda.

Conservatives HATE Bush and would welcome the opportunity to vote for one of their own.

[ArkDem]

34. We will see

.

[leftofthedial]

35. Personally, I don't think there is any chance of Buchanan running

But a bona fide conservative third party candidate would particularly hurt Bush, whose popularity among conservatives has slipped steadily since 9-11.

[ArkDem]

37. I agree, he already knows what the voters think of him..

.

[gully]

30. I'd love to see it. He was also very much opposed to the war...

interesting huh? He is against what he calls nation building. I think his run could make a huge difference in the outcome... Crossing fingers...I think he has more notariety now.

Or how bout Joe Scarborough. He's a Republican dream? And, he's got experience in government? He's bitching about big spending so that could be 'incentive'. Sure he calls Bush a 'great man' but the spending could turn him? :evilgrin: What's say we start a 'draftjoe' movement? OMG, it's delicious?!

[Noordam]

31. Question: Was the hi-jacking of the Reform Party a Karl Rove Operation?

I wrote this in early 2001.

Question: Was the hi-jacking of the Reform Party a Karl Rove Operation?


One of the things that always troubled me was the Reform Party being a non-player in the 2000 election, especially in states like Florida. If one assumes, Green Party pulls votes from the Democratic Party and the Reform Party pulls votes from the Republican Party, then for Bush to win, the Reform Party had to be defused.


In the 92 elections, Bush Sr. lost the election to Clinton in part because of the Reform Party. Going into the election Ross Perot was pulling strong numbers in the polls. I think this caused the Republican Party to spend time and money fighting Perot and not Clinton. By the time of the 96 election, Perot’s personality had come on too weird and while he did well, he did not do as good as 92. But still he pulled more votes than the Green Party.


And think about Florida. Before the election, the Reform Party had move to Florida from Texas. Texas was well in the bag for Bush, but Florida was a toss up state. With a strong Reform Party in Florida, they would be hitting Florida hard during the campaigns.


So, Mr. Rove had a problem going into the 2000 election. How could the Reform Party be defused so as not to hurt George W. I wonder if his answer was named Pat Buchanan. Out of the blue, Pat Buchanan changes parties and goes for the Reform Party nomination. We all remember the two conventions and other crazy things that went on, but in the end Pat Buchanan got the nomination. And what happened after Pat got the 12 million from the Feds and was ready to run. Well he got sick and went into the hospital for “surgery”. And from that point on, he did not really run for President. And when he did come out of issues, he alienated people from the old Reform Party and others in general. He became a 1%er.


Did Karl Rove ask Pat Buchanan to be a good soldier and fall on this sword?


Pat was too smart a person not to understand that a strong Reform Party candidate would kill Bush’s changes of getting elected. Over the years I have watched Pat on Crossfire, before and after his 96 run for the Republican nomination. He always toed the Republican Party line. And during the 96 nominations, I remember that, while I disliked everything he stood for, he looked like his was having fun running. I did not see the fun going Pat Buchanan in the 2000 election. And remember Pat Buchanan was a close Nixon man and understood “Dirty Tricks” very well.


Leading up to the election, there was another Rove operation, I believe. The buying of ads in targeted states for the Green Party. A number of normally Republican companies and people were putting on Green Party Ads. Florida was one of the targets of these ads. This smells to me of Karl Rove operation.


Nationwide Ralph Nader, the Green Party candidate, received 2,864,810 votes. Pat Buchanan, Reform Party candidate, received 448,750 votes. And in Florida Ralph Nader got 97, 431 and Pat Buchanan received 17,472 votes.


In Florida for every 5 votes the Green Party got, the Reform Party got ONE.

OR in Florida for every 5 votes Gore lost, Bush lost ONLY ONE.


As a side benefit, the Reform Party did not make the 5% goal for matching Federal Funds. What will that mean in 2004, well, the Green Party is mainly environmentalists and they will still donate well. On the other hand the Reform Party is in many pieces and that egg can never be put back together without a deep-pocketed leader like Ross Perot.


Enron and the shredding of documents.


I wonder, there is an old saying, follow the money. Lets look at Enron for a moment. Enron set up a zillion off shore companies to hide their money transactions. And as the downfall of Enron was happening, their accounting firm and probably Enron themselves, started shredding documents.


Was there one off shore company especially targeted for shredding. Let’s say a political operative of a person that wanted to be President, knew that person had a friend with deep pockets and would do anything to help him and his father. And what if Mr. Deep Pockets said, I will have my company set up an off shore company, to help with the RETIREMENT of a loyal soldier and his sister. A very loyal soldier and a very loyal sister.


While Enron is in the news a lot these days, Karl Rove would have had other loyal friends of Bush that he could have tapped. So maybe it was not Enron, and maybe Pat Buchanan thought like Ross Perot that he really could win. And maybe the Bush camp had nothing to do with the Green Party ads. Maybe, but something smells to me.


Think about Mr. Deep Pockets, and the selling of stock before the downfall, did he want Bush in the White House as an insurance policy, if his company HAD to go down so as to buy him some breathing room.


IF the Reform Party had got the same number of votes nationwide as the Green Party, Gore would have won by over

3,000,000 votes!!!!


IF the Reform Party had got the same number of votes in Florida as the Green Party, Gore would have won Florida by over 80,000 votes!!!! And a clear mandate.




"When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains,

however improbable, must be the truth."

-- Sherlock Holmes, A Study In Scarlet, 1887 by A.C. Doyle


Written by Noordam ~ January 29, 2001