Imagine... Mondale won 1980.. then Dukakis won 2 terms... then Clinton...

[gulfcoastliberal]

Then President Gore.

Would be be living in a parallel universe or what? All these pug administrations make me feel like the Star Trek episode where the Enterprise and Federation are all evil. I think that show was meant to warn us of our fate if republicans spead their tentacles throughout government and public policy they way they have. They must be stopped.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. Wouldn't we be horribly corrupt after 28 years in office?

Happens to the best of us.

[gulfcoastliberal]

3. maybe corrupted by the good guys...

Unions, environmental groups, etc.

We'd wouldn't be so reliant on oil, that's for sure.

[Goldmund]

2. Imagine if RFK had never been shot

No Nixon, Vietnam stopped before it got out of control... That one bit of history would have changed everything.

[gulfcoastliberal]

4. Speaking of that...

Please check out this link. I got it from DU, so you may already be familiar with it.

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr398-rfk.html

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. Reagan raised taxes and so did George HW Bush

are you sure you're on the right forum?

[Misunderestimator]

9. Who are you calling "MORANS" ?

Or maybe you can rephrase your entire post, it isn't making sense to me. :shrug:

[trotsky]

10. Mondale told the truth.

He said that both Reagan and he would have to raise taxes to get the deficit under control. He said that Reagan wouldn't be honest and say that, but that he (Mondale) would. Americans like being lied to, apparently.

Now go back to your other message board.

[UdoKier]

11. Oh, how cute!

He thinks DUers love LBJ's warmongering. Ah, the newbie. Mondale should've pledged to "hold the line on taxes" rather than saying flat-out that he would raise them (just like St. Reagan did) Americans like to be sweet-talked.

Anyway, Stryper Lespaz, enjoy your stay...

[UdoKier]

12. Shucks, that didn't last long.

I wanted to bat him around a bit before the mods gobbled him up.

Oh well.

[enki23]

14. stryper?

dear god... bad, bad eighties "christian rock" hair band... bad. dead giveaway bad.

*shudder*

[UdoKier]

15. Actually it was "Striker Lestat"

I was just mocking the little twerp.

He was calling us morans, thought DUers weren't aware of LBJ's stupidity in Vietnam..

[trotsky]

6. Well, in this "ideal" world...

Jimmy Carter would have been RE-elected in '80, followed by 84,88 Mondale, and then Clinton in 92, 96. Although Clinton's message really resonated with people burned out by Reaganomics and George Bush the Smarter, so another Democrat may have taken the reigns in 1992. (Geraldine Ferraro, since she would have been VP?)

At any rate, I agree that there would probably be a good deal of corruption to contend with had we held the White House that long.

[UdoKier]

8. Mondale didn't run in 80.

Carter's 2nd term would be until 84, then Mondale-Ferraro would be in effect until 1992, Then Ferraro-Clinton (who cares who the veep sleeps with?) And of course, a fit and trim Clinton would be running for re-election right now.

Bush's incompetence wouldn't have caused 9-11, the sanctions on Iraq lifted, the populace would overthrow Saddam and have a reform government.

Relations with Cuba normalized, Castro dies of heart attack upon seeing commercial for "Girls Gone Wild". Millions of annoying Miami Cubans go back to Cuba to start the fascist plutocracy they always dreamed of.

Dumbya would be sweeping up cigarette Butts at Ranger Stadium right now.

And Jeff Christie would be serving his 25 year sentence for sexual assault on that guy in the public restroom...

Oh wait, that would be in a JUST world.

[flaminbats]

16. Carter's re-election would have changed history for a century..

We would not be $7 trillion in debt. Our country would currently have universal healthcare, and we would have used our technological advantages in the 80's and 90's to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

This means that the Persian Gulf War would have never happened, because President Mondale wouldn't have told Saddam it was OK to invade Kuwait. Mondale would not have armed bin Ladens' terrorists in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. As a result there would have been no attack on 9/11, no war in Iraq or Afghanistan, no tax increase in the 90's, and no Republican Congress elected in 94.

We would have lower taxes, more jobs for teachers, more money for education and college aid, workers to rebuild our public infrastructure, and over $100 billion dollars every year not being used to pay interest on the National Debt. This means more for reducing poverty in the world, more money to stop outsourcing, more to help third world countries, more for buying land to protect against development, more funding available for welfare, more money for the space program, and money available to keep Social Security solvent for generations to come.

Having Mondale in the White House also means the Cold War would have ended earlier. This means that Russia's transition from communism to capitalism would have been less sudden, less nuclear weapons would be available for terrorists to buy, less nuclear weapons in the U.S. to be dismantled, a World Trade center in New York, and less danger of genocide occurring in Eastern Europe. This means we would spend more time easing tensions in Israel, improving relations with North Korea, regulating utilities and monopolies, and moving toward a common currency with Canada to keep up with the EU.

Republicans would have an agenda that is more tolerant, and Democrats would still be the majority in America. Essentially America would be less divided, more respected across the world, and more free than it was before 9/11.

[UdoKier]

18. Not to be argumentative, but...

"Mondale would not have armed bin Ladens' terrorists in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets."

I'm pretty sure that Carter began the policy of arming the Afghan mujahadeen in response to the Soviet invasion, and that Raygun continued the policy.

As for the rest of your scenarios, who knows, but we would have found out if Carter had simply handled the hostage crisis forcefully instead of wringing his hands for months, then giving up after one abortive rescue attempt.

America would have forgiven him even if there were casualties, so long as he took a hardline approach with Iran. Instead, he was pathetic. He never had a chance against the carefully image-managed Reagan, with his little cardigans and slightly grim demeanor...

[flaminbats]

19. Those hostages lived because of Carter's nonconfrontational approach...

He didn't threaten war with Iran, nor did he send troops into that country after April 1980. As a result, no casualties were lost in the middle-east.

Unlike Reagan, I doubt Carter or Mondale would have freely given our taxdollars to any resistance group fighting in Afghanistan.

[UdoKier]

22. It's great that they lived, and who knows how many we could have saved...

But how many THOUSANDS have died due to Carter GIVING the presidency to Reagan, Bush, etc? Not just from wars, but malnutrition & poverty, covert actions. Giving up the presidency, and eventually the Congress to those THUGS has not been worth it.

Where has "taking the higher ground" gotten us? Nowhere.

Better to look back to the Kennedy brothers. In spite of their golden image, they RUTHLESSLY used every measure in their power to dispatch their enemies.

If only they hhad thought to keep tighter security....


Also, I have seen it documented somewhere that Carter funded the mujahadeen.

Carter was a good man, but he showed poor judgment on many occasions. Boycotting the 1980 Olympics was another one.

[flaminbats]

23. I agree that Carter wasn't the best campaigner..

but I believe he was among our best and most honest Presidents. Regarding the boycott against the Olympics, he did this because he felt it was immoral for a super power like the U.S. or the U.S.S.R to invade a smaller country. If this standard was used today, the 2004 Olympics would be boycotted because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[UdoKier]

24. Of course it's immoral, but that's no reason to boycott.

Normally, democrats favor engagement, right? It would have been an opportunity for us to kick the Russians' butts in a sport or two, and the various players and spectators could have made gestures of protest against the invasion.

Our non-participation accomplished nothing, except to destroy the dreams of a lot of young athletes.

[flaminbats]

25. the dreams of an athlete should not be the President's top concern

I now have mixed feelings about that boycott, but only because our country has done worse in the years since. If Carter had been re-elected, I feel that America's record on human rights would currently be one that all would admire!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. I heard Carter speak and someone asked him about that

He said that his advisors on Iranian culture told him that if he took an aggressive approach publicly, the Iranians would feel obligated to "defend their honor" by striking back, perhaps by killing the hostages. In that culture, evidently, you cannot not retailiate against a publicly stated threat.

Instead, Carter sent messages through back channels (other governments) saying that if the hostages were harmed, he'd order the bombing of Tehran. Since he didn't do it publicly, the Iranians didn't feel obligated to respond.

And you will note that all the hostages came home alive. In fact, halfway through their captivity, one man started developing odd neurological symptoms, and the Iranians released him. He turned out to have multiple sclerosis, but I bet the Iranians were eager to make sure that he didn't die on their watch.

Carter said that the hostage crisis was extremely frustrating for him because his administration WAS working very hard behind the scenes, only he couldn't talk about it, and the reporters knew that. Yet the press kept harping on the idea that the Carter administration "wasn't doing anything" about the hostages.

[69KV]

20. That's it right there

1980 was the pivotal election that led to the mess we have today.

If Carter had been re-elected and Reaganism never gotten a hold on this country, things would be much different today.

I cannot think of any other election more pivotal since 1932, except for the one coming up this November.

2004 of course is more pivotal than 1980. Let's not blow it this time. This election will decide whether the Repukes will follow through with the Reaganite agenda and finish off this country for good, or whether we will have a new Democratic era and restore democracy.

[UdoKier]

26. But thus far, Kerry campaigns like Carter negotiated...

The Bush camp says something sleazy like "If you vote for Kerry, you'll be in greater danger of being killed by terrorists"

Then instead of saying "That's rich, coming from the guys who ignored the highly specific Aug 6 memo and went on vacation, did nothing to prevent the attacks, and then didn't have jets scrambled for over an hour after we knew we were under attack. I submit that Bush made us vulnerable, and that his shortsighted policies continue to make us morre mulnerable today."

Instead of saying that, the Kerry ccamp comes out and says "That's not a nice thing to say. It lowers the level of the debate."

HELLO! They are REPUBLICANS! You expect them to play NICE? There hasn't been one with a conscience since Lee Atwater. Hit back and hit back HARD!

[Awsi Dooger]

13. Farthest I've ever fantasized was JFK followed by RFK

Thru '76. Minus both assassinations, not exactly unrealistic, assuming JFK would have managed Vietnam better than LBJ heading into '68.

[OHswingvoter]

17. I don't believe

that Mondale even ran in 1980. I think the 1980 race was Reagan versus Carter. Would have been quite a miracle for Mondale to win it as he wasn't even on the ballet.

[Zorra]

27. Human evolution would have accelerated by 500 years.

Republicans are neanderthal knuckle dragging throwbacks that have kept our species as close to their primitive level as they possibly could.

Republicans fear social, political, economic, and intellectual progress because they know that they will be left in the dust of history by natural selection if they do not hinder evolutionary processes.