Myth: Dean's supporters are almost entirely white

[pruner]

watching him mingle with the crowd as he left the stage in Bryant Park I couldn't help but notice how many minorities were among them.

granted, the crowd did seem to be predominantly made up of whites, but there were plenty of blacks, browns & yellows too.

[unfrigginreal]

1. Dean does have to work on this though...

and his campaign has been in short order. It took the campaign entirely too long to start addressing race issues, but now they are and I commend them for it.

[Eloriel]

6. I don't know that it took him "too long" --

You have to remember that the internet has been a huge tool for his campaign, and that there very much IS a digital divide. So it's not that he's ignoring minorities -- and he ALWAYS talks about issues of race, etc. in his stump speech -- but that the surge via the internet of people finding him didn't include as many minorities.

Here's a rundonw of some of what he has done:

* His campaign chair in S.C. is black (wish I remembered his name, but I think I only saw it once)

* He has a number of Latinos on his staff in Burlington

* Recently he hired Carol Moseley Braun's Campaign Manager to be his Deputy Campaign Manager

* The other day he named a Native American to be his campaign director in Oklahoma

* He was one of 3 Pres. Candidates who attended the 40th anniversary of the March on Washington the other day. The other 2 were Sharpton and Moseley-Braun.

* He has attended the Urban League, NAACP and LaRaza functions, when not all the other candidates did. AND he spoke fluent Spanish at LaRaza (putting Bush to shame once again, tho that's never hard).

I'm thinking he has the most diverse STAFF of the other white candidates. And IMO he's doing well at the outreach. His grassroots are going to have to continue to find effective ways to reach across the digital divide.

Eloriel

[sfecap]

11. One of Gov. Dean's Foreign Policy advisors is

Susan Rice, African American, former assistant Secretay of State under the Clinton Administration...

[unfrigginreal]

15. This isn't meant to be a slam...

but I don't remember any of his stump speeches addressing race until he made the San Antonio speech this past weekend. I don't think it was out of mind but it just hasn't been a major component of his speeches.

I think he has corrected that quickly and appropriately. C'mon Eloriel, you know that none of these guys are perfect and we'll only get better as a team with some constructive criticism. I was not intending to bash him, why would I be a contributor if that was the case, and I don't think that I did.

[alphafemale]

20. He's been addressing race awhile. "I'm tired of being divided..."

Has been a theme as long as I can remember.

Still, coming from the lily-white state he does...
this is something that will need work.

[Eloriel]

21. Exactly

I've been a supporter since well before his electrifying CA speech ("I want my country back!"), and he's always had that in his speeches. He's often (probably not always) talked about going to the South and talking about race, too.

Eloriel

[maxanne]

25. I get real sick of the Vermont/northern bashing

Howard Dean should have left home at 5 to be adopted by a poor black family, in order to have any credibility with some of you people. :eyes: At least Dean is not pretending to be fluent in Spanish, the way W is.

And I guess French Canadians don't count as a minority, because they are white? BIG population of FC's in northern New England.

When I met Dean in May, he spoke of race issues. Rather well, I might add.

[unfrigginreal]

28. You're preaching to the choir!

We're all Dean supporters.

[Nicholas_J]

23. and check with the other candidates in a month

There lead amont minorities seems to be increasing at a far greater rate than Deans.

It is virtaully too late for Dena to play catch up ij this area unless he drops his supoprt for civil unions in order to get the socially conservative vote in the south, reverse his stance on balancing the budget by cutting social programs which weighs heavily in his past record. his cutting of funds to public defenders which unfortunately due to the nature of the U.S. criminal justice system, is largely used by minnorities and the poor, and Deans record does not add up to ANYTHING that will attract minorities. Except for the fact that Dean is going to try to lie about this record m as he has in the past, but as the campaign for nomination gets nearer to the finish, one can expect FAR more focus on Deans relativly unknown record as Governor to receive FAR more media play then the records of other candidates.
Oh, since you free free to utilize ONE anecdotal event to prove that Dean has support among minorities, I thought the views of others who have been keeping track of the numbers of minorities who attend Deans meeting would be just as valid.

[unfrigginreal]

27. We'll still be here...

I wonder if your guy will?

[Blue-Jay]

2. What!?!?!

You mean I'm gonna stay this color?

/The Jerk

[efhmc]

5. It must be really hard to be blue.

You clash with so many of your clothes.

[Cha]

3. That's good to hear! Thanks, pruner!

It will interesting to see when Dean ventures South of the Mason Dixon Line!

[NYC]

4. I sat next to a black man in Bryant Park.

.

[hedda_foil]

13. NYC .... You were there?

I was at the Chicago rally this afternoon but the NYC event was a whole order of magnitude bigger. It was just amazing to watch and I'd heard almost the same speech earlier today. Could you tell how many people were there?

[BurtWorm]

I was there, too.

There were two sections. I was in the front. It filled up very fast. The larger, back section looked almost completely full as well. The news is reporting at least 8,000 people were there, and that seems plausible.

[farmbo]

7. Congressman Major Owen's endorsement is HUGE on this issue

With Al Sharpton and Carol Mosley Braun still in the race, it's been hard for black elected officials, community leaders and Pastors to endorse any of the other candidates.

This may break up the log jam.

[ComerPerro]

8. Where the hell did that myth even come from?

I mean really?

[Terwilliger]

9. didn't Dean fight medical cannabis in Vermont?

what do you think about that?

[TLM]

39. No what Dean fought was the process...

of making pot legal for medical use via the law, rather than via the FDA. He supports medical MJ, provided that process for establishing its medical use follows the correct procedure that other medications have to follow as well.

Personally I do not agree with his position 100%, but I can respect where he is coming from... and his position does represent progress from the current state of the issue of marijuana laws. Also his position on drug laws is that they should not be punitive for use, but for dealing. Again, I do not agree 100%, but his position does represent progress on the issue.

I'm not looking for a candidate who agrees with my views on the issues 100% because that guy wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected. I know that and I am rational enough to realize that if I want to see ANY progress on the issues I value, it will have to come in PROGRESSIVE steps. Change does not come all at once in one election. Some progress is better than no progress... and if you can't get elected, you can't make any progress on any issues.

But if someone like Dean, who can get elected, makes some progress on these issues, and the guy after him makes some more progress, and the guy after him makes some more... we do see progress. Look at our history, and you see the most massive progressive movements took decades of small steps upon small steps.

Do you think civil rights or women’s suffrage were achieved in one election cycle? No, they took years of people being smart enough to understand that progressive social movement is like building steps up a mountain. If you build steps it takes a lot longer, but when you're done the next guy can make the climb with ease and continue building where you left off. Whereas if you just try to jump from the ground to the top of the mountain all at once, you fall on your ass, and the guy behind you starts from the exact same point you started from.

[Terwilliger]

41. lots of blah, here

he fought the legislation tooth and nail...you can't defend that...then you talk of platitudes


No, they took years of people being smart enough to understand that progressive social movement is like building steps up a mountain.

Progressive movements happen because of people, not politicians. Dean represents the establishment.

[mandyky]

10. A lot of this is related to the digital divide in

this country. And yes, Owen's and Nadler's endorsements will help out very much. But this is where shoe leather comes in, those of us supporters from urban areas need to go into the inner cities and register and flyer.

[w13rd0]

12. Partly the fault of the digital divide...

...but it is most certainly being rectified. I live in a pretty mixed neighborhood in the Midwest, and everyone now knows who my button is talking about. I get talked up all the time over Dean now, and many have just recently been exposed to him, but he most certainly has 'impact'.

Also, it's interesting that we can even discuss the diversity of the "Dean crowds" when most of the other candidates aren't attracting crowds to examine, and the only guy that is (Bush), you sure as heck don't want to talk about the lack of diversity at his crowds of hand-picked supporters...

[rudeboy666]

14. p.c. police

"but there were plenty of blacks, browns & yellows too."___maybe African-Americans might accept(and still oftentimes do!) 'black'. Though I'm not too sure that Latinos would accept 'browns'(i'm Latino by the way).

Asians? 'yellows'? I don't think that they have ever refered to themselves in those terms(as opposed to African-Americans with 'black').

I could be wrong!

[pruner]

16. sorry officer

I was eating M&Ms when I typed that.

[Nicholas_J]

17. Recent polls among hispanics

Have all democratic candidates beating George W. BUsh EXCEPT for Howard Dean:

Bush would lose to a generic Democratic candidate by 43 percent to 31 percent, according to the poll.

He fared better against some specific candidates, losing 38 percent to 33 percent to Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts but beating former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean by 35 percent to 34 percent.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/elec04.prez.bush.hispanics.reut/


I was looking through these campaign pictures from Dean for President meetings, and there isn't a black, asian, or latino in them. It reminds me of all the Tsongas campaign stops from 1992. Paul Tsongas, along with Jerry Brown, was Clinton's main competition for the Democratic nomination. He was extremely popular on college campuses because he had the ability to speak to over-educated people. He was uncharismatic (in general), could not raise money, and was from the northeast.

One of the reasons that Clinton won the nomination in 1992 was his support from black people. They are an enormous part of the nominating constituency in the Democratic primary. This is especially the case in my state of Michigan, because of the 1 million black people in Detroit.

It also suggests that Dean will not be able to energize black people even if he wins the nomination, and would be crushed in a match-up with George Bush in 2004. I don't know what black voter participation was in 1992, but it seems reasonable that voter turnout made a difference in that three way race between Bush Sr., Perot, and Clinton. In my opinion, black people love Clinton perhaps more than any president since JFK.

http://www.lemondust.net/archives/000350.html

I have done crowd analysis of Deans speeches before his own campaign groups and also found a SEVER lack of anything but young caucasians.


Every poll that breaks doen those polled by race, age and sex has Deans support among minorities floundering WAY behind that of all other democratic candidates.

Even Dean himself at the RAinbow Coalition/ PUSH debates outright states that the vast majority of his support comes from white college age students, and is having problems reaching minorities.


The column was mostly positive. The only concern was Barta's observation regarding the lack of minorities at the event:



The Dallas crowd was young, white and Internet-savvy. And they were organizing. Tables were set up for petition signing, fund raising and learning how to go to precinct conventions. It was strictly grass roots, not professional. Many learned about the candidate on his Web site.

<...>

While gay support was evident at the rally, noticeably absent were Hispanics and black Democrats, the most reliable base of the Texas party.



Dean has some support among minorities, but he has a lot of work to do. However, he has made some inroads among minority leaders in Texas. The chair of the Texas Coalition of Black Democrats spoke at the rally to support Dean. Howard Dean has also been endorsed by State Rep. Eddie Rodriguez (D-Austin).

http://www.burntorangereport.com/archives/000194.html

CA Pol Junkie
my own personal demographics aside, Meetups of Dean supporters are skewed white, college educated, and professional. Of course, the Internet is skewed white, college educated and professional and political junkies are probably skewed similarly. The $64,000 question is whether Dean's appeal is narrow but coincides with who is currently aware of him, or whether his appeal is broad, but minorities and non-college educated people are just proportionately unaware of him.


http://lunaville.blogspot.com/2003_05_11_lunaville_archive.html

CA Pol Junkie and frankly0,

A 'random sampling of Americans' would show that few care about the election at this point. Dean's support is instructive, though. A lot of Dean supporters are normal nice people who like what he's saying. They like the toughness. That said, his tough aggressive stance turns off women in large numbers, and minorities aren't responding to this guy. Those are both VERY bad signs, as those groups are key Democratic constituencies, and tend to vote with much more foresight than the rest of us. Remember the 'there's no difference between the parties voter'? Yes, because that person is at a Dean meetup. Remember the 90% of blacks who voted for Gore on extremely high turnout because they knew that there was a difference between the parties? Well, they aren't turning out for Dean.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=482



“Arizona and New Mexico are very important states in Governor Dean’s effort to take back America,” said Kathy Lash, former Vermont Governor Howard Dean’s campaign deputy press secretary. “They will be the first big test after Iowa and New Hampshire and Governor Dean plans to campaign very rigorously in these states. No candidate can win either of these two primaries/caucuses without significant support in the Hispanic community. In fact, New Mexico has the highest percentage of Hispanics in the electorate (42%) than any other state.” In addition, she noted, “How a candidate does on February 3 with Hispanics and African Americans will have an impact on his/her ability to appeal to states with other large ethnic populations like California, Texas and New York which all hold their elections exactly one month later on March 2.”



http://www.hispanic.bz/hispanic_tuesday_the_hispanic_vote_and_the_2004_primaries.htm

Bottom line is that all polls that attempt to find a candidates attractivess to minorities, show Dean trailing.

His ideas about the death senttence and gun control are siametrically opposed to the poistion of most black voters. Most black democrats supported the miliary action in Iraq.


In South Carolina, where Democrats are considered more socially conservative than the party at large, experts say Lieberman has a chance to make his case to a receptive audience. He has visited the state five times this year, including a stop in Charleston today


http://www.charleston.net/stories/071603/sta_16lieberman.shtml

Deans young white voters beleive that Deans message has universal appeal. It appatently does not.

[unfrigginreal]

18. Check back with us in a month

n/t

[AP]

24. What's Dean going to change in two months?

Is he going to go back in time and change his life of privilege into one with which more blacks and latinos can identify? Money, yell, skiing in Aspen, and second and third chances at careers that aren't giving you as much as you think you deserve aren't exactly the sorts of facts to which I think most people who struggle and work hard with little reward relate.

The most interesting thing Dean has done with relationship to race is that he asked Yale to put him in a dorm room with black students because he didn't have much experience with them up to that point in his life. Interesting, but I'm not sure if that's going to go down well with people who percieve it as a rich kids desire to conduct a little experimentation and that asking the school to facilitate his wishes (who in the world gets to tell the University whom they want as roommates? Oh yeah, legacies and rich kids). Noble or weird? I'm not sure. Maybe a little of each.

[unfrigginreal]

29. Not a thing...

He's just going to be more vocal about his feelings of equality for all! And at the same time he's going to be vocal in opposition of the current asshole in office, something that your candidate has been reluctant about for almost 3 years.

[AP]

30. There's a big difference between being angry,

and standing for change.

[unfrigginreal]

32. My candidate is ANGRY about the Bush Administration...

he stands for change to gaurantee equal rights for ALL! What's the position of your candidate?

[Terwilliger]

34. how general do you need to be?

before you realize that's the position of all the candidates?

GIMME SUBSTANCE!

[unfrigginreal]

37. LOL! Terwillerger...well my candidate is angrIER! lol

NANA NANA NANA!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unfrigginreal]

44. Tsk Tsk Terwilleger...

I was on the winning team in 2000. What team were you on?

[Terwilliger]

45. hahah

you supported Bush?

[TLM]

46. No, the greens did that...

I voted for the guy who actually got the most votes.

[Terwilliger]

47. the guy who is now a traitor because he didn't defend the Constitution

as he was sworn to do?

THAT guy?!?!

[TLM]

48. Yeah dems are traitors...

nice one right out of Rove's book.



Guess Gore should have worked even harder to overcome the greens as well as their pals the republicans. Only a green would be arrogant enough to campaign against a guy, then blame that guy for not winning.

Talk about an intellectually dishonest mindset that knows nothing but selfishness. The greens are as greedy and selfish and singularly minded about their ideological purity as the republicans are about money.

There is simply no difference between a green and a republican.

[Terwilliger]

52. Funny

the Green is more liberal than you are

Ironic, huh?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

36. Where do you start?

Edwards is for the idea that America is place where everybody should be given an equal opportunity to succeed, and if you work hard you're rewarded. He's for the idea that everyone should bear a burden in proportion to their benefits they receive from American society. He's for the idea that work should be rewarded, and not wealth. He's for the idea that the best thing you can do in life is to improve the lives of as many people as possible.

If you don't understand what Edwards is all about that's OK. But you really should look into his candidacy a little bit.

[Nazgul35]

33. you starting up with this polling nonsense again....

Part of the reason (and would be expected by someone who proports to know something about polls...at least quotes them often enough) is he has low name recognition with these groups...

Oh...and what happened to your precious MOE...you know...the one you always harp about when someone puts up a poll that shows Dean in the lead (you better get used to these), Bush beats Dean 35 to 34 percent...(using a baby's voice)...is dat within the witty bitty margin of ewwor....and you night want to add those two numbers together...31% are undecided...what does that mean o expert of the polls....

In poll after poll where Dean's name recognition approaches the same level as the other candidates, Dean does just as well, or better then the others....

The first primary is still five months away...how large is the hispanic community in Iowa or NH? cause that's where Dean's focusing his attention....until Sept. when he's going to run $1 million in ads so he can get that name recognition up...

And I find it interesting that as a Kerry supporter, you would worry so much about Dean's chances with African Americans and the South...if that was such a concern of yours I wouldv'e thought you'd be hot and bothered about Edwards....

Seriously....polls are only as good as the fools who seek to use them....

[Bombtrack]

19. he polls lowest among blacks than any other serious candidate

at least he was a month or so ago

http://politicalwire.com/archives/002469.html#002469

his state is the whitest of all candidates, and he seems to be the most anti-gun control, which is a position that tends to be anti-urban

his support also comes from people who care more about foreign policy, than domestic policy, as a whole(at least thats the way I see it) or else they wouldn't be willing to lose an election based on a foreign policy issue which already happened because they are so obsessed with the idea that they were right

[REP]

22. Rainbow of Support in NoCal

At the Dean events I've attended, I've seen more than just white faces. They're attended by people of all ages and races and ethnicities. I know the campaign is wanting to make everybody know they're on their side, but in some places, that message has gotten through loud and clear.

[AP]

26. Would that all of America were Northern California!

[TLM]

43. In Southern CA Dean meetups are drawing huge diverse groups

this guy who says he never sees any non-whites at Dean events is lying. There is no other excuse, as I have repeatedly pointed out that anybody can go to www.meetup.com and look at pictures of Dean events in places with large minority communities and see that Dean is reaching them, even over the digital divide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=235166


I think that Kerry's stagnant campaign is driving some of his more zealoted followers to resort to desperately dishonest bashing.

And once again... just because you can dig up some bias opinion editorial piece making the same attack, does not prove the attack is true. It is sad when some supposed progressives have to resort to the Limbaugh/Drudge standard for citing "facts."

[AP]

50. Sharpton says that Dean is polling lowest among blacks.

You think he's lying? Confused?

Pictures and anecdotal evidence are one thing and polling is another.

By the way, I saw those pictures of the meeting at Trippi's farm, and it struck me then, everybody was white. I know it's an anecdote, and I know it's a picture, but interesting nonetheless.

[SharonAnn]

31. Truth: Bush supporters are almost entirely white

Truth: Bush supporters are almost entirely white

[JaneQPublic]

35. Excuse me, but which candidates DO draw large groups of minorities?

For obvious reasons, I suspect Sharpton and Moseley-Braun have a large number of minority supporters, although I've never seen any of their rallies aired, if they've even held rallies.

But among the frontrunning candidates, is Dean's crowds any less diverse than Gephardt's or Kerry's? Or is Dean simply under greater scrutiny, now that he is the apparent lead dog?

[AP]

38. I tell this story all the time.

On the Tavis Smiley show, Smiley interviewed Edwards and said that he, Smiley, was at an event for Sharpton in NYC. He said that wealthy, black donors to the Democratic Party were telling Sharpton that they like him, but he was going to have to get in line behind John Edwards. Smiley said, not only were the donors saying really great things about Edwards, but so was Sharpton.

[prolesunited]

42. Umm...

Take a look at the photos from his Chicago stop. Sure didn't look that way to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=235166

[MercutioATC]

49. Ummm, 'cause he's spent most of his time in Iowa and New Hampshire?

If you're spending most of your time getting support in Iowa and New Hampshire, you're spending a lot of time talking to white folks.

Give it time. Let him do more campaigning in some states that HAVE Blacks and Hispanics. He'll do fine.

(yes, I know that N.H. and Iowa are, in fact, home to some minorities too...)

[AP]

51. I saw some pictures of Edwards at Iowa picket line shaking black hands

Iowa isn't all white.

[MercutioATC]

54. Again, I KNOW Iowa isn't all white, but it ain't Mississippi...

If you take campaign pictures in an overwhelmingly white state, it stands to reason you'll wind up with a bunch of pictures of white supporters.

BTW, have you seen the shots of the NYC rally? I saw a great mix of ethnicities.