Black Box: Who has more honor, Cathy Cox or Sonny Perdue?

[BevHarris]

Cathy Cox: Georgia Secretary of State (D)
Sonny Perdue: Georgia Governor (R)

So Cathy Cox accepts the challenge of Roxanne Jekot to demonstrate how to hack the Georgia voting system.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0803/23voting.html

"Roxanne: If I brought a team of computer professionals to you and demonstrated how to hack an election you would be happy to set that up?"

"Yes."
"Bring it on."
"The chances she can do this are a billion to one."



"Here, hack this, it's kind of like a Diebold voting machine."


Here are the absurd (and apparently, stone-cold terrified) restrictions Cathy Cox has come up with:

Roxanne is not allowed to touch the following:

1) The Internet connection used by the county server to upload results

2) The GEMS software on the county computer

3) The county computer

4) The router or the modem communications between the county server and the touch screens at the polling place

5) The software for the touch screens

6) The touch screens

Roxanne will be allowed to try to hack a prototype of a touch screen which contains no software.

Governor Sonny Perdue, on the other hand, asked his representative to call Roxanne to find out what she needs to make it a fair challenge. We await the response of the Sonny Perdue investigate-the-vote team.

[MoonGod]

1. Wow. Will the machines even be turned on...

... or is the power switch off limits, too?

[papau]

22. We now can define a sufficient condition for the vote not to be hacked.

1) The Internet connection used by the county server to upload results - TURNED OFF

2) The GEMS software on the county computer -TURNED OFF

3) The county computer -TURNED OFF

4) The router or the modem communications between the county server and the touch screens at the polling place - TURNED OFF

5) The software for the touch screens- TURNED OFF

6) The touch screens - TURNED OFF

:-)

[punpirate]

24. Yes, indeed...

... there is a simple and elegant logic to everything you say. Therefore, it is entirely incomprehensible to the average politician....

Cheers.

[MoonGod]

2. Oh, also, I like this line from the ajc story...

"The November 2002 vote in Georgia went smoothly."

Ummm.. Hello?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0302/S00095.htm
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%2Bgeorgia+%2B2002+%2Belection+%2Bmachines

[punpirate]

3. Hmmm....

Seems that Cathy Cox thinks the only possible hack is telekinesis, so that's what Roxanne's got to use....

Stephen Wright: All of you who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand."

[BevHarris]

4. LOL -- hey I have a question

If there is no software how does one have votes?

On edit: Wait! I know! Something called a "paper ballot."

[MoonGod]

5. ... or a ballot, for that matter

[punpirate]

6. Ummm....

Someone out there really knows telekinesis, and raises a lot of hands?

Truthfully, the tactful approach to Ms. Cox would be to ask her how she thinks the machines actually work. The counter to her argument would be:

"If the machines don't require software to count and transfer votes, please demonstrate a sample vote on the software-deficient machine you are allowing me to touch."

Cheers.

[BevHarris]

7. If the machine has no software

and therefore can retain no votes, and you stick a memory card in it that you sneaked some votes onto, did you successfully rig the machine?

[punpirate]

8. No....

There still has to be an operating system. (!) OS is software, and is a part of where the fault is in the machine, if the business about unauthorized changes to the OS made by Diebold is true.

BTW, have you run the "rules" as laid out by Cox past either David Dill or Doug Jones?

[BevHarris]

10. David Dill is on my poop list right now.

But wait, you are right about an operating system.

However, I deduce that such machine cannot have an operating system either. In fact, I deduce that Diebold said something like this:

"Hell no, and do NOT use our name in this mess, YOU deal with it!!!"

To which they concocted a method involving no Diebold machines, software or anything or any type. Thus, only the hacking of a prototype with no software (and how could it have an operating system either, under my scenario?)

Because of course, the operating system on a Diebold voting machine is an entirely customized version of Windows CE developed by Diebold, so that would be off limits too.

Tomorrow's fun: A visit to Diebold!

[Junkdrawer]

23. Bev, check your PM

[Junkdrawer]

54. Kick

:kick:

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

34. lol

You realize, of course, that Windows CE on any custom hardware is "entirely customized" and that those customizations consist almost entirely of things like drivers to make the specific hardware on the machine in question work, and/or removal of system components that aren't relevant to a particular device (typically a handheld PDA-like unit, although sometimes apparently it's a voting terminal, lol). That's why Microsoft has a "Windows CE Platform Builder" product in the first place... to let people build an "entirely customized" version of Windows CE that runs on their custom hardware platform. Just saying.

Oh wait, I totally forgot that Diebold allegedly hacked all the core windows software somehow and built in a secret remote control-enabling back door. You were going to post (with great fanfare) the proof of that a few weeks back. I assume that I simply missed it, and that you didn't just pull the entire claim out of your ass. :)

JC

[punpirate]

35. If you're as sharp at this shit as you maintain...

... read Microsoft's contract in this regard.

Maybe you aren't up on the legal stuff, but if they don't acknowledge modification under license from Microsoft, they broke copyright law.

As I recall, the modifications in question made by Diebold were not acknowledged by Diebold.

Nor were there clear changes in version number from the CE OS supplied to them by Microsoft after their modifications. That's against election law.

Cheers.

[DEMActivist]

36. Not to worry, punpirate....

TinFoilHatProgrammer just nailed Diebold's ass to the wall.

Very succinctly and nicely, thank you very much.

[BevHarris]

37. What took him so long?

We've been saying for how long that it's not possible for CE to be COTS? That sticking major home-grown stuff under a Microsoft copyright is not kosher? That their story about the patches being from Windows, standard stuff so "they didn't need to be looked at" was bogus, and we challenged him to run out and find patches for CE.

Is tinfoil really a programmer? Good gosh, I can't believe he just now rushes forward with this.

LOL.

Bev

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

41. uh huh

You people manage to crack me up every damn day. :D

Windows CE is COTS. You need hardware-specific drivers to make the hardware work. It's no different from any other version of windows (or any other OS, really). OMG, their asses are totally nailed to the wall now. I bet the sound card driver is the key to everything. OMG. OMG. :eyes:

Nice evasion on the "secret back door" allegation. Why not just admit that you lied (again)?

I'm headed off to the beach until next week... good luck with the whole challenge thing, evading the Diebold death squads, etc.

JC

[BevHarris]

42. Based on that answer, I guess I agree that you arent a programmer

Even I know more than that. All this time I actually thought you knew some small thing about what you were talking about, but your last post is pretty telling.

[BevHarris]

9. If a machine has no software how does it contain an election?

"If I brought a team of computer professionals to you and demonstrated how to hack an election..."

[punpirate]

11. Well, it's obvious to us...

... but perhaps not to laymen (or even entirely to Sonny Perdue). Someone else in GA, other than Roxanne, want to file a PRAR for all phone records and emails of Cathy Cox between the meeting with Brit Williams and now, to Williams, R. Doug Lewis, Diebold, Perdue and the ITAs?

*smile*

Might make for fun reading.

BTW, if the only machine they're allowed to touch is one without software, there's no way to check file time/date stamps and version numbers, is there?

(!)

[BevHarris]

15. But, pray tell, how redundant is the special redundant vote storage

on a machine with no software?

And I demand checksum verification.

Please, I insist on seeing the audit log.

And where do they store the passwords? Because now we don't have the hard-wired "1,1,1,1" anymore do we, you know the one that's the same on every machine because the supervisor password was in the code.

[punpirate]

17. Uh, yup...

... and yup, and yup, and yup.

I do think it's time to start making a few vague noises about GA officials destroying voting evidence in the 2002 election in contravention of Federal law.

Among other things....

It would be fair play to get someone in Cox's office to wipe away every bit of software on her office computer, then say, "uh, Cathy, could you email me those rules of yours?"

*smile*

Y'know, I look at this list of demands, and, you're right, this is runnin' fer yer life, get away from me, I'll scream "rape" if you don't do what I say sort of stuff.

Aha, just thought of something in the way of collusion-thinking. How is it that Cox has her hands on a "prototype," without software? Huh? Is this one of the new wireless machines? TSx? How did it come into her hands--without software? And when did she get it? And, did she get it with software?

Nah... that's too hard... wanna bet this is not a "prototype," but rather an empty shell sales demo Diebold sent them to show them how it set up and the booth curtain and legs were installed? I'll bet the one they're suggesting doesn't even have hardware in it....

[Booberdawg]

12. LMAO!

Does the Vaseline come with this or is that extra?:eyes:

[punpirate]

13. From the sound of it...

... gotta bring your own.

[Booberdawg]

14. No kidding

I can't believe she came up with that with a straight face. It IS a screw job.

I don't know how you guys put up with this. *sigh* But I know you'll figure something out. :thumbsup:

Linda

[cybildisobedience]

46. this just in....

Vaseline not allowed either.

[ibegurpard]

16. Hmmm...sounds like Purdue wouldn't mind Cox being out of the picture

He knows there's no way that the election would be overturned and he can come out of this looking like the good guy.

[punpirate]

18. Perdue is safe....

The Georgia Secretary of State's office erased and then destroyed all the firmware containing the votes. There's absolutely no way to retrieve anything but the tally sheets, which the GA SoS thinks is all that it is required to save. The electrons are gone....

Sonny knows he's absolutely safe. Of course, he'll end up looking like the good guy in this--he may even demand that the SoS implement an actual voting system to hack--he look great--until Roxanne and crew run roughshod over the entire system.

[MoonGod]

19. Yup... I think you're right...

... and even then, he can act entirely shocked, start taking action to clean up the voting machine mess, and then make sure it gets bogged down in the details until whatever reform they make is completely toothless.

It's the Republican way.

[ParanoidPat]

20. Don't be so sure about that!

:evilgrin: About the retrieval that is!
They better take a sledgehammer to all 22,000 machines! :)
Can they say "Scanning Tunneling Electron Microscope"? Good! I knew they could!

[punpirate]

21. The votes are stored in cards, right?

The cards are gone. The one left in the machine is firmware for the operating system, as I understand it.

And if you can count the votes on a STEM from electron shifts in the operating system firmware, you're a much better nerd than I.... *smile*

I'd rather depend on telekinesis.... *smile*

But, on edit, it would be a _lot_ of fun to call up Georgia Tech and ask them if they'd like to reconstruct the vote from 22,000 electronic voting machines with their STEM... just in the interest of science, of course.... (!)

Cheers, Pat.

[never cry wolf]

29. I thought that Georgia's

law said that the electronic vote was the only one that counted. The tally sheets would then not comply with the law regarding saving the results for 22 months. I say, as an earlier poster noted, go after em on that, or at least threaten a suit.

[DEMActivist]

30. A suit would require an attorney

Got one handy? None in Georgia will touch it.

[never cry wolf]

33. you're right

i remember seeing a thread a few weeks ago with suggestions for attorneys. %$$#&*^)()_#$#@*() lawyers!!! (sorry to any duers that are attys)

Hey, let's just let the Dept. of Justice know, I'm sure they'll take care of it. (sarcasm on)

[sam sarrha]

25. when will people wake up and smell the corruption? the neocons

have learned that if they agree openly or declare a broad glorious solution then just not do it... no will ever notice...and no one does. and when it rots and stinks they blame the treasonous liberals.

[rman]

31. people got used to the smell, some actually like it. n/t

.

[punpirate]

26. Let's...

... give this a kick since it's soon to go off the main page. Let the day shift see the face of genuine absurdity....



:kick:

[mndemocrat_29]

27. We shouldn't have black box voting, period.

The best way, the only way to have an election should be with paper ballots. They only way to have a fair (uncontested) election would be with paper ballots. Why can't people see this? If there's no paper trail, there's no proof, there's no validity.

Campaign Slogan 2004: It's the corruption, stupid.

[Nederland]

48. No, sort of

Paper ballots are easily forged, and history is full of examples. Computerized voting is a good idea on many levels, so long as its done properly--as in, not the way Diebold does it.

[DEMActivist]

28. Honor among theives?

No such thing.

You have a Governor seated by computers which cannot add 1+1 and come up with the elementary answer, put in place by a woman who has been bought and paid for to put the machines there.

Honor in the same sentence with either of these names is a disgraceful use of the word.

[tlcandie]

32. Maybe you should all agree that they can keep the systems

IF they apply those same rules or just plain TURN THEM OFF?!?

[Wickster]

38. If this weren't so important,

it would be hilariously funny.

Kick this up - there HAS to be a gutsy, competent attorney somewhere that will take this on! Okay, well, maybe not. ACLU? NAACP? Barry Scheck (sp?)? Franken's attorney?

Without restraining orders and legal wrangling this Cathy Cox (Katherine Harris-Lite) will get away with this travesty!

Keep at it folks - you are doing a great job - I am in awe.

:kick:

[loudsue]

47. Bob Barr and Dick Army now work at the ACLU in key positions.....

Why do you think ACLU was screaming "disenfranchisement for handicapped voters", due to paper ballot voting machines, in their California recall lawsuit. The ACLU is trying to force computerized voting machines on the whole state with their lawsuit.

Anybody that doesn't think the repuke cancer slime hasn't infiltrated its way into every decent, progressive organization in this country has their head up their butt.

ACLU
NAACP
League of Women Voters

We're screwed.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Wickster]

59. Ow!

We ARE screwed!

:kick:

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. National Press Club

http://npc.press.org/

[nostamj]

40. BBV makes the cartoons

well, this cartoon anyway. center square!

[revcarol]

43. At last you posted a BBV post I can understand...

an empty box with no innards...Yup, that works for her.

Maybe all ought to call the governor's office and remind him that he was made a fool of on NATIONAL TV, when he didn't think anyone else than Georgians would know about his state's fiascos!!!

THE WHOLE NATION KNOWS, and if he wants to get out of this, HE BETTER TELL COX TO TOE THE LINE!!

Maybe a tourism boycott, since we don't want to go into dictatorial states to recreate...hmmmm?

[GAspnes]

44. those are some choice conditions

"Here, put these lead weights on your ankles and waist, attach the chains, and then line up with the other runners...."

Unfortunately, Cox is probably serious. "The programmer declined to hack the system once some simple test conditions were laid out. This proves that the system cannot be hacked."

I'd like to write up a set of Test Acceptance criteria and forward them back to Ms. Cox.

[SharonAnn]

57. No, this only prove "the programmer declined to hack the

system once some test conditions were laid out".

That's all it proves! For Pete's sake, what's with these guys/gals and their inability to think logically?

Wait, maybe that's why I'm a programmer and they're not.

[never cry wolf]

45. This merits main page

:kick:

[Nederland]

49. Actually

The only restrictions that I think are unreasonable are #1 and #4.

The other restrictions simply mimic the security necessary to run a clean election using paper ballots. For example, if I said to you that I can rig an optical scan ballot election if you give me access to the card readers, I don't think anyone would think this was any big surprise.

[donsu]

50. kick

nt

[TrogL]

51. OK, so what will be on it?

Presumably some subset of what we've already got.

What she could show is how to "capture" a vote from the screen, then manipulate it before it hits the place where the votes are actually stored.

This is the guts of the "one vote in ten" theory, where at random, votes are flipped from Democratic to Republican. If it is possible for this to have taken place (which is what needs to be proven) then they need to show that it hasn't.

[DEMActivist]

53. Nothing will be on it...that's the point...

Cathy Cox plans to deliver a non-functioning box for me to hack.

But, you see, she's in trouble even with that approach.

All I have to take with me for this one is a hammer, screwdriver and hacksaw!

Ooooops, Cathy.....you messed up again!

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. Check your PM's please

something will be waiting.

[alfredo]

52. Kickin

and screamin

[Vadem]

55. and screaming and kicking!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[RedEagle]

56. Double speak, double standards, double inane

Kick!