Questions about the Cuban Embargo

[sangh0]

1) Does anyone ever wonder how Cuban-Americans, who make up only a small percentage of the voters in Fla, came to dictate the US's foreign policy on Cuba?

2) Does anyone ever wonder how Cuban-Americans, who came to this country on rafts without a penny to their name, organized such a well-financed campaign against Cuba?

3) Does anyone think it's just a coincidence that Florida corporations earn money from sugar, and Cuba also produces sugar?

[JI7]

1. others don't care or vote on the cuba issue

since others don't care about the issue, the politicians can get money from the pro embargo cubans and vote their way. there is no backlash or the other side to worry about. also, the fact the cuban americans were gathered in one area allowed them to support each other and there are government laws or programs in place to help them. i was reading that when the vietnamanese came here, they were purposely not grouped together as the cubans were to prevent them from forming a large block of people with power politcally and financially.

[Caution]

2. Does anyone ever notice how

the tinfoil hat people ask questions but never provide answers?

How they play on basic fears that someone, somewhere is doing something without our knowledge?

How they ignore the fact that most conspiracies are VERY small and where they are not they ALWAYS fail in the end?

You simply cannot have a widespread conspiracy, someone will spill the beans every time. And fear of death is not an issue, the downfall of the mafia has proved that.

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but the kind of theory you are advocating here could never survive. There is always a conflict of personality (we call it human nature) that will inevitably lead to a break down in the security behind the conspiracy. To be successful a conspiracy must be as small as possible. There is a very good reason that the same people have been in power in the republican party since the days of nixon with very very few new recruits.

[sangh0]

3. Who said anything about a conspiracy?

.

[JI7]

5. i think sangho knows the answers

i believe sangho knows the answers. no conspiracy, probably just a discussion of something many already know.

[edward]

9. Not a conspiracy theory. Here is one fact:

Watching PBS documentary on the revolution in Congo, narrator said that "Cubans" were part of America's invading army.
What were Cubans doing there? They were working with the CIA.
I think what US really fears is a "democracy" in Cuba. Dictatorships(even those obstensively hostile to US) are easier to work with.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

10. Have you ever noticed...

that coincidence theorists always provide ridicule, but never provide answers to the questions asked?

How they resort to soothing platitudes that do nothing to answer the questions, but merely assure us that nothing bad can happen?

How they claim that large conspiracies will always fail because someone would leak the truth, and then use that "fact" as "evidence" that any suggestions of such conspiracies are just crazy, while ignoring the probability that there are such "theories" only because information leaked out from such conspiracies?

I like a good coincidence theory as much as the next guy, but common sense tells me that if the payoffs are large enough, there are any number of people who would be willing to do anything, risk anything, to get their hands on a share of it.

This sentence from your post shows how wrong you are:

To be successful a conspiracy must be as small as possible

What about the Bay of Pigs fiasco? Hundreds of men, huge amounts of government resources, and months, if not years, of preperation went into carrying out an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, and NO ONE leaked it before it happened. Just how small is "small as possible"?

The only reason this conspiracy failed is because the Cuban government fought off the attackers and Kennedy refused to authorise US military involvement (at least open involvement). The failure had nothing whatsoever to do with the "leaks" that you assure us any large conspiracy must have.

In fact, isn't any covert government operation a kind of "conspiracy"? How come they leak so rarely? Take stealth for example. The people who spoke about a secret US aircraft invisible to radar were laughed at until the US government admitted it had such an aircraft.

Still, I DO like a coincidence theory as much as the next guy, so I am sure all of this is just a coincidence. Right?

[hadrons]

4. for 1 and 2

while Cuban-Americans are only a small percentage of the voters in Fl., they are organized and will vote as a block and not all Cubans who came to the U.S. were poor; many who were apart of the first wave were well off people who had it made in the Batista dictatorship

[sangh0]

6. But

from an electoral standpoint, blacks are also well organized. No other group votes as predictably (more than 90%) for one party (the Dems) yet they don't have the influence that Cuban-Americans do.

And while many of the refugees were well of in Cuba, their wealth was appropriated by the Castro. When they came here, they had little to nothing.

[JI7]

7. black voters have opposition

black voters who vote democratic have an opposition to many t hings they support which is pretty much the republican party. the cuban lobby has no equal or stronger opposition that would vote based on those issues.

[hadrons]

12. wealth was appropriated by the Castro

wealth such as land (factories, etc) and some Cuban bank accounts (though I'm sure some money got out), but wealth that could be carried (diamonds and gold) probably made out and I'm sure some people were prepared ... plus, I'm sure many had business connections that they could tap into

Plus, being highly motivated Castro-haters, I'm sure they had more than their share of wealthy patrons to help them out

And a number of Cuban-Americans own radio stations/local TV and can spread their spin easier.

Also, I think Cuban-Americans vote in higher numbers

[sangh0]

14. Business connection - Yes

wealthy patrons - Yes

Keep going

[HereSince1628]

8. How about...

it isn't so much about the Cuban immigrants as it is a rut so deep we can't jump out of it?

Although I was too young to care at the time it happened, I imagine that when American assets were "nationalized" it really pissed-off the owners/stockholders in the US (I remember growing up with a belief that communism meant people would come and steal your stuff, maybe this is where it came from...).

Perhaps a historian on this period can comment on the origins and context of the placement of the embargo...

[donsu]

11. yes, Havana was the playground for rich CEOs and

they are still pissed about giving it up. the gang got away with murder in Havana. And it IS about sugar and slave labor.

Castro was a freedom fighter. the bloody hands bushgang hates freedom fighters.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. I remember it well.

I was a young marine in October of 1962, stationed at MCAS El Toro. I was in the air wing and our planes had been shipped off to be junked as we prepared to leave for rotation to Japan. The other squadrons on the base were sent off to other bases to scatter them. In short, El Toro was considered a target if WWIII was going to break out.

We were literally locked in our barracks. The doors were chained and padlocked with us inside and MP's stationed outside. They feared that some of us might get it into our heads that being sitting ducks wasn't such a hot idea. The "missle crises" ended peacefully and we were allowed to go out boozing again.

The irony was, that I was very sympathetic to Castro and Cuba at the time. I still am.

It's hardly news that the US government has been sympathetic to the Miami Cubans. More so now that BushCorp is swaggering around proclaiming enemies. The CIA has an evil history in Cuba, only their usual ineptitude has kept Cuba free.

[donsu]

15. I never knew you were locked in

how interesting. you mean the US military can keep US troops locked up if and when they want to? Like what law does this come under? (don't think I'm doubting you, I'm just shocked.) so, this means the bloody hands bushgang can do this too.

They can turn our electricity on and off

They can turn our water on and off

They can lock up our military when they want

Sigh

[Brian Sweat]

16. Cubans are not as small a percentage as you might think.

There are about 800,000 Cubans in Florida. That is about 5% of the population, but they are extremely political and vote at a much higher rate than the average Floridian. They probably make up close to 10% of the voters. Presidential elections in Florida are very close and it is the Cubans who make it possible for for the GOP to have any shot at winning in Florida. Without Florida, the GOP cannot elected a president. Therefore, Cubans control Cuban policy.