What was God's suggested punishment for not honoring the Sabbath?

[Bandit]

There is one incident where Moses asked God about that. There was an old man gathering faggots for his fire to keep him warm on the Sabbath and God said in no uncertain words. Kill him. Put him to death immediately to show no man can perform any labor on the Sabbath. That is one of the ten commandments. Honor the Sabbath. Also there is a commandment that says Thou shall not kill. Which commandment should the average joe follow por is there someway to honor God's wishes on both commandments. I know all one has to do is not do labor on the Sabbath but how to deal with someone that does do labor? Should we kill them as God commanded? And if we do are we breaking the other commandment?

[FlashHarry]

1. Actually, it says 'thou shall do no murder.'

I guess, at the time, 'smiting' somebody for not keeping the sabbath holy wasn't considered murder. Personally, I find much of the Old Testament somewhat anachronistic--which makes sense, considering it was written several thousand years ago. Actually, Christ did, too, which is why his Sermon on the Mount specifically refutes the eye-for-an-eye bit.

[Bandit]

22. In which rendition does it say that?

The granite slabs being removed in Alabama say shall not kill. Is the book of Hebrew the correct version or does the "Christian" versions (of which there are a few)have it right? Why did they make the change? Seems the Bible raises more questions than it answers.

[PurpHaze69]

2. Thus the problem

with religion. The Bible is a mish mash of contradicitons and silly stories. If more people would wake up and realize that there is no god, and that this life is it, maybe we would all treat eachother better. Furthermore, this countries laws were not founded on the 10 commandments, or the Bible. In fact, some of our founding fathers even said that the Bible was a terrible book.

[FlashHarry]

4. Welcome to DU PurpHaze69!

:hi:

Try to be careful about saying things like "If more people would wake up and realize that there is no god, and that this life is it, maybe we would all treat eachother better."

You're speaking as if it is an absolute--which it may be, in your opinion--and that can be offensive to DUers who disagree with you. I'm no bible-thumper, but I think that we should be a little more considerate before we make absolute statements like this. Just my opinion, though.

[PurpHaze69]

6. OK

I can understand that. It just agrivates me when all I hear on the radio is how America was founded on Christian ideas or God ideas. It simply isn't true.

[atreides1]

8. Welcome

I'm a Christian, and I don't believe that this country was founded on
Christian ideals or that God supports one country over another.

Laws regarding murder, theft, slander, and other crimes have been in existence long before the Ten Commandments.

This country was founded on the concept of freedom from persecution
in any form, including the recognition by the State of one supreme
religion.

By the way those people in Alabama could show they are Christians by
spending time at the homeless shelters and soup kitchens. But they
just want to threaten the business that moved the monument, and any that disagree with their views.

In my humble opinion they are Christians In Name Only.

[FlashHarry]

11. You're right.

To say that would be an absolute statement, leaving no room for dissent. Although, many of the founding fathers were indeed religious.

It's funny, the "America should be Christian because the FFs were Christian" actually undoes the constitutional pro-gun argument. It goes like this (see if you can follow me): If the Founding Fathers believed that religious tolerance should only apply to Christians, because they themselves were Christians, then the 2nd amendment only applies to muzzle-loading, flintlock rifles. The FFs could no more envision an American society consisting of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Jedis, Shintoists, Pagans, Animists, Druids, Satanists, etc. than they could envision an Uzi, MAC-10 or AK-47. By the same logic, the 2nd amendment only covers your right to own a Brown Bess musket. In other words, you can't simply use the context in which the Constitution was written to justify your point. Make sense? Or am I reaching...

[TreasonousBastard]

13. It aggravates me, too.

However, simply attacking an entire belief structure because of the inanities of a few is not the best way to go.

After all, proving that there is no God is empirically at least as difficult as proving there is one. And proving which God is the "true" one is even more pointless.

Believing there is a God, believing there is no God-- both beliefs are differant sides of the same coin-- beliefs not supported by observation or experimant.

And no purpose is attained by arguing over them.

[sujan]

15. I second you

You are absolutely correct in your assessment.

[rock]

20. FlahsHarry has some good advice

Remember, it's important not to force your anti-religious beliefs on anybody else; it's as unkewl as forcing religious beliefs on someone else. (I do agree with your thought, but let's try to be less doctrinaire, shall we?)

[Ernesto]

23. naughty naughty, PurpHaze69

YOU arn't going to heaven with that sort of talk....... Don't feel too bad: I won't make the cut either. Keep up the fight!

[Clovis Sangrail]

3. Exodus 31: 12-17

And the Lord said to Moses: Speak to the Israelite people and say: Nevertheless, you must keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between Me and you throughout the ages, that you may know that I the Lord have consecrated you. You shall keep the sabbath, for it is holy for you. He who profanes it shall be put to death: whoever does work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his kin. Six days may work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does work on the sabbath day shall be put to death. The Israelite people shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout the ages as a covenant for all time: it shall be a sign for all time between Me and the people of Israel. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He ceased from work and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:12-17)

[alterfurz]

10. as amended by Luke 14:5

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

[PurpHaze69]

5. Bible Contradictions on should we kill....

Should we kill?
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."

Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."

vs.

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."

I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."

I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."

[Bandit]

9. Thank you for the exact scripture

I was going from memory only. Your post helps put it all in context. And by the way welcome to DU :bounce: :beer: :toast: :bounce:

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Well,

it's not murder when God says to do it, is it?

I've always wondered about that vengeful God of the OT, and how things so rapidly changed in the NT.

Note also the remarkable similarities between these and other passages and those passages in the Koran that anti-Muslim types use to "prove" that it is a pathologically violent religion.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

[Bandit]

16. You use the term murder ~ Is that the term used in the Ten Commandments

Especially the Granite slabs that were just removed in alabama? I seem to recall hearing it said Thou shall not Kill. Not Thou shall not Murder. There is a difference. What is the definition of murder and could God commit murder? Or does God just KILL.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. AFIK, The original Hebrew is "murder."

I don't have a reference offhand, but perhaps there is someone around who has one before I have to go off and dig through the books or call the local rabbi.

[DBoon]

7. Food laws are coming

Wait until we start executing people for eating oysters on the half-shell.

Like Judge Moore said, our laws are based on biblical truth. You can't pick and choose which of god's laws you are going to enforce.

No wonder the * administration is so close to Saudi Arabia. Much more in common that most people would think.

[Stuckinthebush]

12. In God's younger days, he was a little conflicted

He had a lot of issues to deal with.

I hope he has gotten over some of his stuff.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. God Appeared To Have An Ego Problem At Some Point

All the worship me, honor me, keep my sabbath holy stuff sounds like someone who is very insecure and requires ego affirmation.

Why would an omnipotent being have a need for the puny humans to affirm that greatness, omniscience and omnipotence? Seems like a fairly petty characteristic for God, doesn't it?

That's why some of us so easily see the Bible as a collection of stories. Some pretty nice stories to be sure. Some good messages contained within the pages, too! But, stories to be sure.
The Professor

[azrak]

18. God's punishment for not resting 1 out of 7 days

Stress, depression, divorce, higher murder rates, higher suicide rates, traffic jams but it doesn't apply to us.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. dear dr laura, my neighbor insists on breaking the 3rd commandment

by mowing his lawn every Sabbath morning. Can i kill him myself?