This Culture War Makes Me Feel Sick

[stepnw1f]

I just opened an email from a friend regarding some weirdo right-wing nonsense about the outrage in honoring Jane Fonda as one of America's top 100 women. In the email the person considered her a traitor. I was going to allow it to slide but the message became even more clear when I thought about it. It angered me like more and more till I replied, possibly severing any ties we had before. I really didn't want to, due to the fact this person was a close friend of my fiancee's father.

I told this person the greatest Traitor this country has seen is Bush for lying this country into a war we did not have to fight, killing thousands of people. I also trumped that sentiment with the fact that my fiancee and I may have to fight and die in it as well if there is a draft. I asked this person if I was a traitor as well for being against the war.

I ended the email with this: "I guess if I die it will be one less liberal right?"

The realization that this person would insinuate that I or any other American who was against a war was a traitor made me sick to my stomach. It made me sick to my stomach because I was in his eyes just a number. It didn't matter to this fool that I was a traitor who may end up there. Would he then consider this liberal a traitor while killing other poor people of brown skin for the "Good Ole US of Fucking A?

We live in very dangerous times, and the real enemy is the mentality here. The mentality circulated through mass emails, vilifying those here and elsewhere. Strangers telling strangers to hate liberals who they know and don't know. Hating those who think differently for political reasons. Hating those who want peace and still see greed as being a sin. Hating those who try to warn them of the truth behind this twisted thinking.

It has become a war within our own country, states, cities, and neighborhoods, even families. I guess in the end my fellow DU'ers, I feel betrayed and that makes me very depressed.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

1. I guess Im used to it.

Being gay, one is always a target in one way or another, so im pretty cynical and ironic about it all.

[Brian_Expat]

4. Yeah, it's not like we're citizens or anything

We're just subhumans, to be bought and sold by Democrats and Republicans alike for political advantage. Barfaroni.

[stepnw1f]

6. That's Sad

One of my best friends is gay as well as my sister, so yes I know it happens all the time. Sorry to hear it though.

[PretzelWarrior]

2. it's just another step in narcissistic Nationalism. Fascism. it's here.

I mean that. This is what if feels like for a black drape to fall over a land that was once a bright light. The way people are able to so easily dismiss tried and true tenets of the Constitution, political process, etc. is mind boggling. So many people fit into the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" mentality of 'here we are now...entertain us.' they forget they have a duty as a human being. they forget what real patriotism is.

Pretty soon you will see bona fide blackballing of outspoken individuals. then some will be jailed. then property will be confiscated on the grounds that a person or group is 'aiding the enemy'.

the draft will come about. the middle class will be obliterated. there will be super rich super powerful giving daily marching orders to a preprogrammed marching working class.

these emails are not harmless. they are one little stone building up a horrible wall. we must counteract it at every turn.

I'm glad you replied in the way you did.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Maybe this will make you feel better

I was at a local political meeting yesterday, and heard this from one of my fellow anti-war protestors. He was talking with a neighbor the other day. The neighbor said, "I didn't agree with you when you protested on the square. But you know, everything you said was true."

So being an anti war activist has changed some minds. Don't worry about freepers like the person who sent you the email. There are others who have a brain and realize what is going on.

[stepnw1f]

5. That Did Make Me Feel Better

I was attacked today for having a Kerry sticker on my car as well in western Mass. I guess that made me mad too.

I'm Going Up to Maine this Weekend to get out the vote. I have my brother, his wife and kids working for Kerry as well. I'm tired and a little upset, but your story made me feel better.

I don't blame the guy who came at me today as much as I blame the media for insiting violence for political purposes!

Cheers

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Good luck in New England-

I'm from northwest Arkansas, which is VERY conservative. The fact that we're seeing a lot of Kerry signs is very hopeful--and the fact that Jan Judy, the Dem running for Congress, is even more represented means there's hope we'll take over the 3rd Congressional District!

[NeoConsSuck]

8. My rule is:

If they feel they have a right to express their political views to you, then they shouldn't feel offended if you return your political views to them.

This close friend of your fiancee's father sure didn't think of your feelings before hitting the send button. I wouldn't worry about any possible repercussions.

[Kimber Scott]

9. It's important that you spoke up. They are so used to being able to

run rough-shod over us. I got a long email once from a very good friend about how immigrants were ruining this country for the rest of "us" good, God-fearing Christians. I did a reply all with this: (Note not one person stepped up to defend the position put forth in the email.)

"Sometimes I too feel, if you don't like what we do here, you should leave. And, if you really hate it, you should. But, if all the people who didn't like the way things were run here moved away, instead of trying to change our country for the better, (where all men and women are created equal and we have the freedom of and even freedom FROM religion), this would be a pretty sorry place. Although, most of us white folk would be doing pretty well wouldn't we? Well, the rich ones anyway. With our plantations and slaves and such? We could still have the Chinese doing our laundry and keep them from walking on our sidewalks. Hell, we could still burn witches, if we wanted to. Only white people could own property and we could keep all the women pregnant and in the kitchen. No need for us to vote, or anything like that.

I don't believe in political correctness. It's just polite lying. (Sometimes it's necessary, though. Like here's a really UN-politically correct thing to say... How about all the people who don't like diversity and equality move away and start their own, "White-Christians Only" country. They could just take over some place with a bunch of brown people in it, kill them, make the rest live on the infertile lands, or turn them into slaves. Problem is, somebody'd start raping the brown women, or the different colors would fall in love with each other, and the white thing would get all confusing, half whites, quarter whites and such. Then they'd let other people move in to do their menial labor, those people would bring their religions, food and values with them and shoot, you'd end up right back where you started, huh? Bad idea, I guess. Probably shouldn't have said it.)

All Americans aren't Christian. And most of the people who complain, and litigate, about our flag and the dominant religion aren't immigrants, they're natural born American citizens. (Nobody has told ME I can't say "Merry Christmas!" But, children in mandatory public education systems need not be forcefully indoctrinated into Christian ideology. It may be the dominant religion, but it really isn't the nationally MANDATED religion. Really.) Which is what makes this country great. We're ALLOWED to do stuff like that - litigate and complain, pray, or not.

Immigrants, naturalized, or not, usually revere our way of life, that's why they come here. A great majority of them are usually too busy trying to make a living and getting an education to be bitching about religion and flags. Many end up doing a better job of living the American dream than we do. And, if THAT bothers anybody, they should step up to the plate and play the game the way it's meant to be played - in the classroom, on the job and in their homes. Not sit around crying because somebody might be taking something away from them.

The AMERICAN culture is a mixture of cultures from all over the world. The American ideal is a belief in diversity and respect for each other as human beings, not the ruling of each other based on social status, or skin color, or religion, or sex, (although that is the ideal, it's never really been true... yet), We have a long way to go and it will be hard, painful work before we come to know what true equality means for every man, woman and child. Will we get there? Who knows, but it's sure worth trying. THAT'S what it means to be an American."

[RegexReader]

11. Glad that it just isn't me that feels this

It seems that the level of rhetoric has been ratcheted up to the crescendo of shouting. There no longer is a basis or place for valid discussions about any political idea. You're instantly pigeonholed as either stupid or a traitor once you open your mouth. Political discussions are 'won' by shouting down your opponent. Be loud is not being right.

I feel like King Theoden in the movie Return of the King, "How has it come down to this?" I really fear for the world that my 4year old daughter will grow up in.

RegexReader
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[Kimber Scott]

14. I think our kids are a lot different than we are. I hope, anyway. They

seem different and not just in a generational sense. They seem to be able to smell hypocracy from a mile away.

By the way... WELCOME TO DU!

[crickets]

19. You've summed it up

very, very well. I salute your eloquence. :thumbsup:

[Beam Me Up]

24. Very good reply. Thanks. n/t

[Tsiyu]

10. Here's what I do

When I get really sick to my stomach ( every day if I don't have my meds) while driving, I yell out, "Bush Sucks!!!!" in traffic. Sometimes I get thumbs up and a nice honk. Other times I get incredulous looks as if they're thinking "I can't believe someone actually SAID such a thing!" I usually have my big 18 year old son with me when I do this. You wouldn't believe how cleansing it feels! Or you can yell "Kerry Rules, Bush drools." Oh, it makes me feel so much better!

Driving through Georgia, I had a few big pickup trucks try to run me off the road when they saw my Kerry sticker. In the second instance, another guy in a pickup saw what happened, whizzed past me and get on that idiot's bumper shaking his fist at the Repuke. It was heartening to me, as I was driving alone at night with my 10-year old son.


Repukes are violent idiots. If they didn't make you sick, Stepnwlf, you wouldn't be a decent human being. Hang in there and illigitum non carborundum, or however you say, "Don't let the bastards get you down."

[OnionPatch]

12. I share your feeling

and "betrayed" is a really good word to describe it. That's the best word I can think of to describe how I feel about our fellow Americans who decided that half the population of the U.S. are traitors. I'm in a conservative area but I used to live among my neighbors and people in my community feeling a cameraderie that I now think must not have truly existed. I always felt we were all Americans and we were all proud that we had the gumption to speak out against the government if we didn't like it. I thought we were all proud to have a system where we can replace all the politicians if we didn't like them but now we are suddenly described as wanting to "bring down" the president. As if this were a coup d'etat we were attempting instead of a good old American presidential election. These things make me feel the most betrayed but I also feel betrayed that these same people choose to close their eyes to the massive political corruption and corroding of the middle class that's going on. And then there's the rape of our environment; our children are getting asthma in record numbers but they look the other way when their president gives the green light to polluters. They always pride themselves on being independent and such, but look how easily they swallowed up the propaganda without question. I just thought/hoped they were more plucky and not so easily fooled. Sigh.
If it helps, I also feel that some people are waking up. Let's hope the tide is turning and we will have all learned important lessons in this long, national nightmare.

[insidious]

13. I know how you feel

I ended a 3 year relationship after listening to that same nonsense about Jane Fonda (and a lot more than that) from my ex-fiancee's father. I've always been told that when you get married, you also marry the other family. I wasn't about to spend the rest of my life around an idiot like that. Unfortunately, she saw no problem with his comments and did nothing to intervene. It definitely would have ended in violence. Although it would have felt so good to kick his face in, I'm much better off (and happier) to have removed myself from that situation. I did make sure to run my mouth, mock, and belittle everything he believes in right before I dumped his daughter. :)

[Ladyhawk]

15. I feel it, too.

"It has become a war within our own country, states, cities, and neighborhoods, even families. I guess in the end my fellow DU'ers, I feel betrayed and that makes me very depressed."

I am totally alienated from my family and just lost a friend who is on the dark side. :(

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. *big hug*

[lgardengate]

17. I understand why your upset but that's not why they say Fonda is

A traitor.Not because she was against the war and demonstrated in America.Jane Fonda met with Americas "enemys" on there land while our soldiers were being held captive and tourchred in the same city.
She criticized America publicly While she was with them.That is different IMO.

I was just a kid while this went on and didn't understand till much later.
Sorry you felt hurt.This stuff really is dividing America.I don't like what Fonda did but she said she was sorry for hurting others and that's good enough for me.

[jdj]

20. What office is Jane Fonda running for?

The truth is Rovian repukes play the misogyny card on these redneck bastards at every opportunity and they swallow it every time, hook line and sinker.

They say Jane Fonda is a traitor because they can't say things like 'those castrating bitch feminazi dykes are gonna take over this country and wear necklaces made of WASP testicles while giving your wife the best cunnilingus she ever had' and still be taken seriously.

It's a hook, a dig, a sure-fire button to push, whatever you want to call it, and these poor suckers just lap it up. The repukes know their demographic, they pay people millions of dollars to map it out for them, they know who to tell these ignorant bastards to hate so all the while they won't notice they are being butt-fucked from every conceivable financial angle. Let's not worry that now only 8% of the work-force is unionized, oh no, we've got Hillary to fear instead..Or, lets not worry that Bush just had over 1000 UNfortunate sons slaughtered to pay back his daddy warbucks campaign contribs, no, we've got better things to do, like vilify Jane Fonda (a freaking ACTRESS for christsakes) for something that happened 30 years ago.

Poor stupid pieces of shit.

[VOX]

21. Jane Fonda publicly apologized and became a born-again Christian.

I appreciate your post, lgardengate -- you are a thoughtful person and have spent time reaching your own conclusions on the issues.

But among the right-wing, where is the forgiveness for Jane Fonda? Her indescretion was "committed" nearly 35 years ago!

The right wing keeps her "traitor" mythos alive because it's still a useful propaganda tool for them.

Very sad.

[neebob]

18. I haven't received any of those swell pass-it-ons from my cousin

since the third time I responded to some right-wing BS about Iraq. The last line was an admonishment to pray for the troops. I said:

"If I were going to pray, I think I'd pray that the pack of criminals who are so happy to send other people's kids off to die in some greedy bullshit war would like ALL DROP DEAD AT ONCE or at least lose the election so they can't start another one. Or maybe I'd pray that all the people who can't see the criminals and their greedy bullshit wars for what they are and think it's OK to send other people's kids off to get blown up protecting obscenely rich American contractors from all the angry brown people who don't like being invaded and occupied would catch a clue."

Too harsh? I haven't heard a peep since. She never wrote anything original - just bombarded me with pass-it-ons at the rate of two or three a day, apparently without ever wondering if I like pass-it-ons in general or pass-it-ons with right-wing BS about Iraq. So I guess she finally figured it out. I don't feel it's a huge loss.

[VOX]

22. I hear you, stepnw1f...

Bill Clinton hit the nail on the head when he recently said, "...{Republicans} think the role of government is to concentrate wealth and power in the hands of those who embrace their political, economic, and social views, leaving ordinary citizens to fend for themselves on matters like health care and retirement security. Since most Americans are not that far to the right, they have to portray us Democrats as unacceptable, lacking in strength and values. In other words, they need a divided America..."

When this election is won, Kerry will be taking rockets from day one from right-wing hate radio, Faux News talking heads, etc. -- all the mechanisms are in place to keep up the liberal vs. conservative division.

The media, IMO, is the biggest offender in this area. And this time out, they should be called on it, because it's high time to end this divided America crap.

Hang in there -- :hug:

[jdj]

23. I think the media is essentially dead.

We've gone elsewhere.

I think when they tried to kill Dan Rather, it showed.

I think it will die a natural death anyway because of the internet, people will go to forums they trust for news, there is no reason to watch the 6:00 news anymore, when you can go online at any time.

Cable and internet are catering to the individual viewpoint now, and there is no turning back.

[Carolab]

25. went to a move-on meet tonight

and we were in a basement of a big old office building...honestly, it felt like a secret meeting...pssstt, any liberals here? It was like we all were looking at each other (a large crowd) and breathing a sign of relief to be among--known friends!! And I thought about what it might REALLY be like if Bushco stays in power--about going underground to try to fight the fascism. It made me all the more committed to GOTV.

[Nile]

26. Carter should have left all the draft dodgers in Canada.

Instead of pardoning them. If they wanted to be in Canada they should have stayed in Canada.

[lostnfound]

28. Have you only cold feelings for their worried mothers, too?

As the mother of a young son, I am sickened at the thought that a monster like George Bush (or Lyndon Johnson/Richard Nixon) could draft my CHILD, the greatest treasure of my life, to fight a ridiculous, offensive, GREEDY war on the other side of the world. Even when they come home alive, they sometimes come home having had their entire view of life distorted and brutalized. What RIGHT does George Bush have to take him away from me??

And if he fled to Canada instead, I would be greatly relieved...and missing him terribly every year that he was gone.

The idea that governments have the RIGHT to take young men away is a grotesquely primitive, perverse idea. It's right up there with the medieval concept of 'first night' or the right of nobles to rape young women on the night of their wedding.

[JNelson6563]

29. Wow! Straight from Rush!

Nice RW talking point insertion! Smooth!

:puke:

Julie--who wonders if Nile would like their child to go die for Halliburton

[George_S]

27. It's only a click

How easy is it to forward something? How significant is it? How powerful is it?

So many clicks to forward, and everyone is doing it.

While I agree with your POV, I think forwarding something spontaneously does not equal writing it ourselves and have it mean much.

So it's not that personal and isn't much more of an insult or anything than forwarding any one of those dumb chain letter things.