Black Box: Connecticut chooses Avante, WITH PAPER TRAIL

[BevHarris]

If you get a chance, e-mail this out to everyone you know --

Connecticut touch screens will have paper trail:
http://www.record-journal.com/articles/2003/08/29/news/news02.txt

SOUTHINGTON — The secretary of the state's office dropped the other shoe this week when it announced that 20 touch-screen electronic voting machines will be used in two voting districts in the November election.

They mention choosing Avante, but what they don't mention is that this means they are not choosing the Big Four (ES&S, Diebold, Sequoia, Hart Intercivic) and are instead choosing one of the three manufacturers whose touch screens automatically print a paper trail.

[Spazito]

1. Wow, that is great news!

I believe, without you guys keeping the heat on re Diebold and BBV, this would never have happened! Let's hope this is the straw that breaks the camels back!

[shance]

2. YAY BEV!****

I hate to think I am excited for something that is both LOGICAL and a NO-BRAINER, but what the heck, I'll indulge! :)

Will definitely email this out.

THANK YOU FOR THIS MORNING'S "INSPIRATIONAL"!

[MoonAndSun]

3. Wonderful, Bev..

you are definitely one of my heroes for your tireless efforts to expose Diebold and others.

I hope many other states will begin to folllow Connecticut's lead.

[ninkasi]

4. Great news!

Thanks, Bev and gang, for all your hard work. The importance of this issue can't be overstated.

[GregW]

5. Not so fast ...

The machines were 'donated' and are part of a demonstration project to use four types of machines by four different vendors.

If we get all hot and bothered over this, then we should similarly start gnashing our teeth when they decide to demo the Diebold or ES&S systems, right?

[Fredda Weinberg]

12. I'd say this whole thread is misleading

read the article ...

[bpilgrim]

40. D'oh!

well at least they got their 'foot' in the door :toast:

i hope the DEMO goes well :bounce:

peace

[DemNoir]

6. Susan Bysiewicz Is a fine Secretary of State

I hope she runs for Govenor next cycle. You can bet this happened despite the best efforts of our criminal Govenor John Rowland.

[scrubshrub]

8. I called the Secretary of States office a couple of weeks ago and

spoke with a attorney that was involved in the process of selecting which machine the state would purchase. He told me the state would not purchase a machine without a paper trail and ES&S was not being considered because of the controversy surrounding the company.

[BevHarris]

19. Thank you!

Yes, Connecticut has been planning on touch screen demos for awhile now, but it is a huge step forward to include one of the manufacturers who uses a paper trail DRE in the demo.

Here's hoping that blows unauditable machines out of the water.

Bev

[papau]

7. Great News Bev - the Dam has been broken!

:-)

[ibegurpard]

9. OUTSTANDING!

Is it possible that a journalist in Connecticut would be interested enough in this to investigate the reasons why they chose Avante? I would be very interested to know the reasons.

[ibegurpard]

10. OUTSTANDING!

Is it possible that a journalist in Connecticut would be interested enough in this to investigate the reasons why they chose Avante? I would be very interested to know the reasons.

[alfredo]

11. Now for the large electorial states.

Why would a state select a voting system that cannot be audited?

[dusty64]

13. Excellent, the

opposition to a verifiable paper trail and a method to conduct recounts by our election officials is unbelievable. Glad to see some are listening and upholding their responsibilites.

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. Yahoooo!!!!!!!

Bev Harris Modern day herione...defender of Democracy and an all around nice gal!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Credit Where It's Due

From a natural skeptic, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS EXCELLENT WIN THAT YOU HELPED MAKE HAPPEN!!!

:bounce:

:toast:

DTH

[Fredda Weinberg]

18. Read the article

there's nothing to celebrate. Actually, nothing happened.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

30. Hmm

You're right, it appears. Shame on this skeptic for not bothering to read the source article.

Still, I applaud their efforts. Not a big fan of the hype, though.

DTH

[Cocoa]

16. I found something shocking about Avante

I'm sorry to report this, but they are a corporation. :scared:

[BevHarris]

20. Corporations are fine. "It's the corruption, stupid."

I heard that slogan here on DU, and think it sums up the problems pretty well.

[BevHarris]

31. Cocoa, here's something I REALLY don't understand

You say you are for a paper trail.

Avante produces a perfectly good touch screen with a paper trail. Why the sarcasm? If you really mean what you say, why isn't a good thing -- a great thing! -- that Avante has been invited into the evaluation with the big boys?

I mean, you seem to be upset that BBV is somehow tarnishing the image of the voting vendors, and here we are saying something good about it -- then you are sarcastic about that too.

[Cocoa]

34. I think it's a good thing

I see it as the best of both worlds. It implements HAVA, and it has the paper trail.

my sarcasm was because it seems to me that according to the rhetoric here, this should be considered a defeat.

It is an implementation of HAVA, which is the embodimment of the corporate corruption of our election system, according to many here.

I would think that more people would agree with this Town Manager fellow:

Town Manager John Weichsel — who has only been using a computer for the past three weeks, mainly to send and receive e-mail — is not as enthusiastic.

"The mechanical machines have worked fine for many years and my attitude has always been: If it ain't broke, don't fix it," he said.

"But we are now in a new age and I only hope the new machines work as well or better as the old ones," Weichsel said. "We will, of course, cooperate fully with all state and federal mandates."

[RedEagle]

17. I have to agree....

...this is about ONE vendors machines to be used in two districts. There appear to be three other vendors and we don't know who those are yet.

Got any DU'ers from Connecticut who can find out? That would be interesting.

And I don't ascribe any more to this than exhaustion and scimming information too fast. As someone who used to work in a business with a LOT going on, I can tell you it's easy to Monday-morning-quarterback the game with all the time in the world to catch stuff like this.

Bev has shown she'll correct stuff, I'm sure she'll get the detail on this one.

[BevHarris]

21. For some reason, none of my posts upstream will take.

They shoot me over to some weird screen about Lebanon. Anyone else having this problem?

Look, having Avante go head to head with the others is a very good thing.

[BevHarris]

22. Okay, cancel that. They took. But I get a message every time

that gives me html on Lebanon and some newspapers there and then says "your message was unsuccessful."

Sorry about the confusion.

Bev

[ibegurpard]

25. Me too

That's why my message posted twice.

[Robbien]

33. It is happening to me also

After hitting post message I get taken to a screen which looks like someone else's post.

[seemslikeadream]

23. Yes I got that too just a few minutes ago

about Lebanon but my message took on another thread. Did you see the thread from Adamocrat about the meeting in Georgia?

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. I am having the same problem

as bev...it is wierding me out too.

[dusty64]

26. Me too, any

idea which thread its from?

[dusty64]

27. message.

Following query failed:
INSERT INTO 104_mesg_archive VALUES('233140', '0', '0', '0', '0', '105555', 'xray s', '20030826170330', 'Kbowe', '20030826203344', '', '00000000000000', 'Who is behind the World Tribune/ WMD in Lebanon report?', 'This morning as I wiped the sleep from my eyes the FOX local news anchor quoted a World Tribune article that Saddam\'s WMD were now believed to be in Lebanon. I found a link to the story. It looks very suspicious to me, like a Rove plant to take some heat off Bush.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html\r\n\r\nProblem is, many people hear this stuff first thing in the morning and file it in their minds as the truth. \r\n\r\nCan anyone give me some background on the World Tribune and Geostrategydirect.com? ', '', 'on', 'off', 'off', '0', '0', '1', '0', '0', '0', '0', '9' )

[seemslikeadream]

28. They've been told in Bugs about it

it's happening to others.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. thank god

[gulliver]

32. The people who buy Diebold's got stuck with junk.

At least that is how I see it. Without a paper trail, the Diebold's are worthless. As time goes by, people will see the inherent trustworthiness flaw in the Diebold design and those machines will become expensive trash.

I wonder who the computer illiterate, political ignoramuses are who buy systems that lack a "show me" paper trail. They should have their feet held to the fire, not necessarily on the basis of security but on the basis of trustworthiness of the system. There can be no trust without verification.

[SharonAnn]

37. Not really. If they're a PC based type of system, a printer

can be attached and it can be whatever kind/type is desired and can have all the features that are desired (including secure ballot box).

After all, the printers that airlines have used for ages to print tickets at the ticket counter have many of the characteristics that you would want in a ballot printer. Some modifications required.

[gulliver]

44. Yes, I know printers can be added...

You are missing the point completely. They bought a system. That consists of hardware and software. The system has to have well integrated components capable of printing a recognizable ballot, meeting strict reliability standards in integration. The Diebold's can't do it now. That's that.

The possibility that a white elephant Diebold system can be upgraded does not in any way mean that the computer illiterate idiots who bought Diebold systems didn't buy junk. You are not talking about a minor routine upgrade when you blithely say "Aw it's just a PC. You can add a printer." My point is that the Diebold's have a blatant flaw: the lack of trustworthiness at the human machine interface. Lacking a paper ballot audit trail, these things are only for sale to imbeciles.

Other systems with audit trails are now going to blow the Diebold systems out of the water, and the dummy's who bought the current models are going to be stuck holding the bag with a huge maintenance upgrade.

[gristy]

46. So is Diebold's stock price is due for a decline?

Inquiring minds want to know. I bought a few puts that expire Nov 3. Not in the money yet...

[SharonAnn]

47. Right, they'll need to upgrade and it will be costly for the

HW and SW and procedures, but it will be doable.

I just didn't want Diebold states to think that they'd have to keep their Diebold machines "as is" because it would be too expensive to upgrade them or replace them.

[Robbien]

35. More good news, got a response from

an Illinois newspaper to my email about our govenor signing HAVA.

From: "Rodney Hart"
Subject: touch screens


Thanks for the email about Gov. Blagojevich signing the bill about
voting changes. Adams County is buying Optical Scan machines, NOT touch screens. Optical Scan machines are different because there is a piece of paper used in the process.

We are only as smart as the technology we use. I agree we need to make sure the system is not abused and we have fair and accurate elections.

Rodney Hart
Staff Writer
The Quincy Herald-Whig

[RedEagle]

36. Paper Ballots are Only the First Step

Getting the paper record verified by the voter is the first step. Now, check your state laws to make sure that paper ballot is the official ballot for all recounts and audits, and make sure paper ballots are allowed for that purpose.

As we have found, some states have laws forbidding even looking at those ballots.

Keep on the details!

[gristy]

41. paper ballots

Now, check your state laws to make sure that paper ballot is the official ballot for all recounts and audits, and make sure paper ballots are allowed for that purpose.

It is even BETTER if the paper ballot is used for the first count. Not just the recount and audits. This is better known as paper ballots with optical scan. Ask for it. Every time.

The blind can use a keyboard and computer to generate a completed paper ballot.
Dorks can use a touch-screen machine to generate a completed paper ballot.
Non-dorks who know how to operate a pencil or pen just fill out a paper ballot the old fashioned way.

[realFedUp]

38. Is there somewhere to find out which systems are being used where?

?

[alfredo]

39. Kicking

this because I just had a glass of ale and I feel good.

[ParanoidPat]

43. Three beers here....

....and feel like kickin' a little myself!

[gristy]

42. Lots of work remains to be done in Conn.

This quote is from the article. Robert Sherman is the Republican Registrar of Voters in Connecticut.

"I think it's great we were one of the towns chosen for this demonstration, since by federal law everyone will have to use the electronic machines by the 2006 election," Sherman said.

The Federal HAVA law says NO SUCH THING!

[eleny]

45. I almost lost the faith

Congratulations!!!!!! I'm sure I'll sleep better tonight. This was a grave issue. You're wonderful!