Wesley Clark and the Election of 2004

[Pepperbelly]

Very good article in the Nation ..

-snip-

But he may not need it. While Democratic operatives like to opine that it's too late for other candidates to enter the race because most traditional donors have already been tapped, the evidence suggests otherwise. Most of the leading candidates are falling behind their fundraising targets. Edwards, in fact, came within $500,000 of his second-quarter goal only because of donations from 22 of his own campaign workers on the last day of the filing period. That suggests that a significant number of Democratic donors are holding back and surveying the crowded field for signs of a winner. So far, most of the heavy hitters either have not given money to any campaign or have parceled out modest donations among several different candidates.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.sullivan.html

[Democat]

1. It's still very early, most Americans don't care about 2004 yet

Anyone who says it's too late to enter hasn't looked at the average attention span of the American public lately.

[Trek234]

27. The general election is not the problem

It is the primary that happens to be much sooner. That is the problem with entering too late.

[tjdee]

2. He matches the strengths of the current crop and raises them one.

"Arguably, Clark matches each of the strengths of the current crop of contenders, and then raises them one. His Army background--stretching from Vietnam to Kosovo--out-oomphs Kerry's military record. His service as commander of NATO forces compares favorably to Dean's executive experience as governor of a small New England state. He adds gravitas to Edwards's aesthetic appeal, charisma to Lieberman's thoughtfulness, and sincerity to Gephardt's liberal policies."

I thought that was interesting.

[Julien Sorel]

3. Hmmmm...

Arguably, Clark matches each of the strengths of the current crop of contenders, and then raises them one. His Army background--stretching from Vietnam to Kosovo--out-oomphs Kerry's military record. His service as commander of NATO forces compares favorably to Dean's executive experience as governor of a small New England state. He adds gravitas to Edwards's aesthetic appeal, charisma to Lieberman's thoughtfulness, and sincerity to Gephardt's liberal policies.
(emphasis mine)

I can here the howls of outrage now.

[Julien Sorel]

4. Should be 'hear.'

[newsguyatl]

10. hmm

those graphics look strikingly similar to "dean for america"...
oh, and i like the choice of yellow and blue, too... why forever did you choose those two colors combos? hmmm... lol ((hey, at least you guys have good taste and know a winner when you see one))

[eleny]

13. My own homemade banner, then

:dem:

[Julien Sorel]

23. I like it!

;-)

When my host finally gets its crap back together, I will merge my folders. I think I have about 6 different Clark banners spread around now, but my host did some weird stuff with my account, and basically locked away one of my folders on a server they lost access to. :/

I liked your button, too.

[eleny]

25. Thanks, Billy!

:hi:

[Julien Sorel]

19. What Dean for America colors?

Dean must hand his followers out some good stuff.

I chose yellow because it is the only color that stands out against blue and white, making the letters legible. The original background was a cloudy sky that I ended up playing around with until it looks as it does now; I will almost certainly play around with it some more until it looks different again, since these banners represent nothing more than me teaching myself how to use Photoshop, and are all works in progress.

You're right about knowing a winner when I see one, though. That's why I support Clark.

[Pepperbelly]

5. I am surprised by the lack of response but perhaps that might be a ...

positive development in that folk may be growing weary of trashing the candidates.

More Bush bashing I say.

[Renew Deal]

6. I second that

More Bush bashing for everyone. Make it so.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I'm Reluctant To Post

cuz I'm really tired of these intramural pissing matches.


I'm tired of chasing my tail disabusing folks of the notion that Wes Clark is - choose one or all:

a war criminal

a crypto Republican

a Rove inspired disruptor

a PNAC agent

[DoveTurnedHawk]

8. Yeah, It Gets Old

The most irrational of the anti-Clarkers are now on my Ignore list. It makes for more pleasant DUing. They do a good enough job marginalizing themselves, in any event, for any and all reasonable readers.

DTH

[Pepperbelly]

9. the high-fiving is what tickles me ... nt

[Terwilliger]

22. Did you realize Doves can't become Hawks?

it only goes one way

[cosmicdot]

14. did you truly mean for this to be "general discussion"?

... no pun intended ...



perhaps this is better suited for the Politics and Campaign forum??

[Pepperbelly]

15. nope ....

With all the crazy, bizarre shit that has been posted about Clark, I wanted to post a good positive article.

Besides, I don't ever go to that forum so why would I post it there?

[TacticalPeek]

17. Careful, now.

Be sure to save a few bushels of bashing for KKKarl 'The Slime' Rove.
Bash him into the federal pokey, and the chimp-bashing will take jump to a whole new level.

Twisted bastards.

[Donna Zen]

11. the Nation?

or did you mean Washington Monthly?

Yes the bashing in relentless isn't it? I like the part about declaring Slobo out to protect Kosovo. Ah_never mind that Milosovic said he would kill everyone of them--this time. He also said the UN could inspect an atrocity and then refuse once the inspector arrived. This was all before the first bomb dropped.

When I started looking at Clark it was purely because of strategy; however, after looking at his positions, especially regarding Constitutional Legitimacy, I found the whole thing made me smile. Here we were with an opportunity to nominate and hopefully elect a very liberal person and the average voter would probably never know it. Ha! Unfortunately many folks on this board don't know it; don't want to know it.

Oh well. His chances without funds...??? What do you think?

Sometimes I feel like writing to him and telling him: you've done enough for this country and getting smeared by Rove is not worth the effort. But lately I've been overwhelmed by the reality of bushco's "Forever War." This war was always meant to be forever; there was never an exit strategy. Never. If we have any chance to reverse and resolve this situation, the General (and I assume Holbrooke) may be the only person stepping up and offering to lead. Oh if bushco gets careless enough, there are others who might win the election, but what we need now is more than a simple win. We need a win win.

[Pepperbelly]

12. At the time ...

DU would not let me fix the post.

So sue me.

:D

[Donna Zen]

16. Naw....

Any word from the homestead?

My friend from Arkansas reports her calls from relatives, who usually vote pug, are all in a dither.

[Pepperbelly]

18. everywhere I see Clark bumperstickers ...

Wesley is a homie and they will vote for him.

In droves.

[TacticalPeek]

20. Where do put the chance of accuracy of recent reports of copasetic family?

Reports, you know.

[Pepperbelly]

21. Da nada ...

I have not been in contact with anyone since last weekend.

[graham67]

24. A Reuters article....

quotes him as saying his wife was "not on board" yet.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3360982

[tjdee]

30. NYT said yesterday his wife is on board!

"They said his wife, Gert, who had initially expressed reservations, now favors his running."


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/28/politics/28CLAR.html?ex=1062648000&en=09e8d2119f8008fd&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

[graham67]

37. I know....

confusing, isnt' it? :shrug:

[alfredo]

50. The guys on my vet list are abandoning bush for Clark.

that's a good sign.

[Renew Deal]

28. Money

draftwesleyclark.com is estimating 5,000,000 in pledges by the end of September. Of course they know that the draft won't last that long. I don;t think money is his biggest problem. His biggest potential problem is organization. I think 3-5 candidates will be gone by Feb 3. That should bring in some more help. There is also the hope that some will jump ship. I am not sure how many paid staff will though. This is a guy who has been called "left of Dean." He would be a more liberal voice, but wrapped in a likeable moderate exterior.

[chaska]

26. Ya'll see this? Can I get woo hoo!!!?

We broke a million in pledges! $200,000 in the last 48 hours!

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=115-08282003

[JohnKleeb]

29. I dont support Clark

but didnt RFK enter the year of the election and convention and likely would have pulled off a victory.

[Julien Sorel]

31. Yes, but there were lots of wacky things going on.

LBJ was the incumbent, and he looked strong enough that RFK stayed out. Then Eugene McCarthy, kind of the Kucinich of his day, had a strong showing against Johnson in a primary (I think it was NH, not going to look it up). Johnson withdrew, and at that point, RFK, along with Hubert Humphrey, Johnson's VP, jumped in.

The circumstances were totally different, as they are in every election.

[burr]

32. A nonendorsement endorsement?

Clark just might get the biggest endorsement of them all. In a June interview, former President Bill Clinton told the Associated Press that he has been impressed by every aspect of Clark's career and uttered these magic words: "I believe Wes, if he runs, would make a valuable contribution because he understands America's security challenges and domestic priorities. I believe he would make a good president." The statement has been judged by many political observers to be a non-endorsement endorsement, and a signal to Democratic donors and consultants to wait for Clark.
<snip>

Is anyone elso concerned that the Democratic leaders have decided to find new ways to appoint our nominee for us? This reminds me of 1952 when Truman promised Eisenhower the nomination if he ran as a Democrat, but when he ran as a Republican Truman picked Governor Stevenson only as his second choice.

I hope our party leaders have not taken the corrupt view that the primaries are nothing more than political eyewash.

[Julien Sorel]

33. Appoint?

Since when does an endorsement = an appointment?

[Bread and Circus]

34. Man, I feel like I can breathe again...

The onslaught of Clark-hating has been relentless.

I really like Clark and think he is a wonderful man.

I have visitedliterally hundreds of Clark sites
(not the Draft ones but rather all the pages that
come up on a google search) and
I have found Clark to be exemplary. The negative stuff
that gets put out there seems just like propaganda to me.

Anyway, I like this thread. It makes me smile. I am glad
we can positively discuss Clark after so many hate-filled
threads.

I understand that people don't like DU neophytes like me
coming here touting Clark left and right but I want to assure
them I am a true-blue progressive and liberal and I only
mean well for the left and progressive politics.

I wouldn't support Clark if I didn't think he was of the
people and for the people. Call me naive, but I think he
stayed in the military all that time because he really
loves this country to his core and would never want to
mis-treat it the way Bush's mal-adjusted administration has
done. I think he wants what is best for us in the long run,
and that includes jobs, education, equality, the environment,
and protecting the constitution.

People here have levelled the legitimate complaint that it is
not obvious where Clark stands on very specific issues. I can't
refute that most of what we say is mainly an inference from
what he has done and said. But to me, anyone can promise "health
care for all". However, I am more focused on character,
intelligence, benevolence, and philosophy than I am on
"litmus test" issues. I am not saying the issues aren't
important, because they are. I am just saying that you have
to "read between the lines" to see if someone will deliver
in the long run. I believe Clark will deliver for us if given
the chance.

Another argument is that he has not "paid his dues" to the
Democratic Party. To me, Clark has "paid his dues" a
thousand-fold to our country. Even though Vietnam was a
terrible war for which we are guilty, Clark laid his life
on the line for the country. He did what we asked him to do,
as a soldier. And he continued to serve and ultimately did
many good things for our nation's defense. Obviously, it
is being mishandled and abused as a war machine to further
PNAC's agenda. I don't think Clark wants to see the
military used for the ill it has. I really think he is a
philosopher and would change the nature of what we use
our military for and for the better. That is his ethos I assume.

We will always have a military and wouldn't it be great
if it were entrusted to the left? People on DU reject
it wholesale, as if you can end all future conflicts just
by denouncing anyone in uniform. I ask them to reconsider
and realize that we need to wield our military for good,
peacekeeping, and curbing genocide/slaughter of innocents
of our global community. That is my world view, not
necessarily Clark's. But I think he would go a long way
to restoring multi-lateralism and principled use of action.

And that brings back to what I think is key...principles.

Clark's principles, though I can only infer, seem very in
line with my principles. Work hard, excel at what you do,
make a difference, stand up for the weak, lift your fellow
person to a higher level, seek peace, use action when all
other peaceful means fail, build prosperity, think globally,
act locally, and keep our men, women, and children safe.

I hope to god Clark does run. I hope more than anything he
will deliver a wonderful message and vision for the future. I think
he will. He may have a hard time getting the money and the
infrastructure of a campaign, but I hope Democrats and the
Left gives him a fair hearing. Winning the nomination will be
the tough part. If he does that, the Presidency is his.

[Trajan]

41. GREAT Post Doc ....

And welcome to DU ...

Your heart-felt feelings about Clark are appreciated. I completely understand where your coming from: ... from what I have heard DIRECTLY from this man ... I have found him to be extraordinarily sincere about his progressive leanings ....

Let's hope for the best: ..... If Clark can show us what and who he is, and if that matches his previous statements: ... he could be a splendid Democratic Party nominee: ....

But he HAS to show us who he is ..... and soon ....

[Bread and Circus]

35. A kick for Saturday

:kick:

[OBrien]

36. He is our great hope

I'm a 49 yr old LIBERAL democrat and I absolutely believe in this man. I know he can win and America can once again be a proud nation.

[Pepperbelly]

38. One of the most interesting things that I have observed ...

Wesley could well end the gop lock on white guys. The gender differentiation in voting has been a real conundrum for Democrats for a while and I really think that Wesley could, at the very least, split that vote 50/50 with the gop. That would, btw, put us right over the top in a landslide.

[OBrien]

39. I definately agree on the guy thing

but,I being woman and the risk of sounding shallow he is one gorgeous looking man!
Also, my father-in-law who is an historical biographer is almost giddy at the prospect of Clark running. Many, many of his collegues share the same feelings.

[Donna Zen]

42. Postcards

women4clark offer a postcard service.

http://www.women4clark.com/postcards/choosePicture.asp?categoryID=1&categoryName=Military%20Life

[Mz Pip]

43. How true!

One of my friends is also an historian and writer. He was giggling, too, at the prospect of Clark running. Pretty funny, since this guy doesn't giggle a lot.

Now I must go an click on that women for Clark site. :-)

MzPip
:dem:

[Donna Zen]

46. Warning

I found adding the music froze my machine. Other than that, I posted a few.

[robbedvoter]

40. I saw a good article in Mother Jones (Kuttner's) on Clark

Then there's Jeaninne Garofalo, Michael Moore - people that were more prone to go with Nader in 2000 that are joining Clark's bandwagon. This is an extremely positive development - Clark seems to have the widest possible range of political appeal. Everyone who has enough of Whistle Ass can find a reason to vote for Clark - even GOP-ers.

[Brian Sweat]

44. Will you please stop these devisive tactics.

Quit saying positive things about your candidate.

</satire>

Oh, and by the way, Clark is a mass murdering war criminal.

</hypocracy>

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I would probably throw my support behind this guy

He seems like he has a much better sense of how to handle national security than Bush or any of the other candidates. I'll have to see how he plans to handle the economy though.

[Pepperbelly]

47. Did you know that ...

his formal post-grad education was in Economics?

Masters from Oxford in that subject as a Rhodes Scholar. He may be more cognizant of what works in macro-economics than even Bill Clinton. I could sure use 8 more years of peace and prosperity.

[Donna Zen]

48. And....

He taught economics at West Point.

(Note: I am well aware that PB knows this, just adding my 2 cents)

[Pepperbelly]

49. If we ...

put together enough 2 cents worths, we could cop a bag of leg quarters and have a cookout!

Whoo-hoo!

:toast:

[TacticalPeek]

51. Et voila! A micro economy... Clark is probably even trained on that!

Survival school, ya know.

[Donna Zen]

52. Of course

that's good economics.