"The troops signed on the dotted line. They knew it wouldn't be pretty"

[SodoffBush]

I keep hearing comments like this whenever I bring up the hopeless situation that Bush has left our military in.

I say that the troops didn't sign up for a war that was against international law, that the troops didn't sign up to have their support privatized, with contract workers who flee for their lives, leaving those jobs empty, that the troops didn't sign up to perform missions that they were never trained to do--peacekeeping, that the troops didn't sign up for missions that four-star general advisors to the Sec. of Defense would determine as quagmires waiting to happen because they lacked the manpower.

What would your argument be?

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Personally, I think...

most of 'em signed up for the college money or job training. Some may have done it for flag and apple pie. Getting shot at was not foremost on their minds.

Recruiting offices tend to be a bit vague about things like snipers and incoming mortar fire when they pitch the kids.

They almost never mention missing body parts or the food.

[GalleryGod]

11. Hey,Tre! Saw you @ Doobies! Anyhow...

Just remember Orwell's "1984": Ministry of DISinformation & The NEVERending War.
:grr:
Well-THERE you go!
Don't Mess with Texas!
(Whatttttttttttttta DICK!):scared:

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Doobies was a good time.

Had to miss Boston. Hope there's another one around soon.

[shance]

2. Troops were also mislead and given a propaganda plan

They didnt sign up for this. Nobody would sign up for an essentially baseless war to help a select few profit.

Would you?

[carpetbagger]

3. Bush has added small print.

For a straight talker, there's an awful lot of small print behind what he says.

(1) supply lines- When these people signed up, they had no idea that they would get a half-assed supply line made up of mercenaries and contractors that cut and ran. They have a right to expect more effort from their government and nation than that.

(2) Training- The military promised them they'd be trained to succeed at what they were called on to do. Many of these folks had no training at what they're doing at present.

(3) Leadership- The military implicitly promised them that they would have leadership, that they would be told what their mission was, what their endpoint was, and why they were doing it. George Bush made a whole lot of promises during the campaign about humility, avoiding open-ended commitments, and about avoiding "nation-building". The small print was awfully small.

[neuvocat]

4. Mine's the same as yours.

This isn't a war to protect anyone's freedoms-just protect their oil.

[iangb]

5. In Australia quite a few people reckon that.....

.......they've heard less bleating from a big mob of sheep than they've been hearing from members of the US military in Iraq.

(Some Aussie Special Forces are still there.....but they aren't being precious about it).

We also have blokes serving in Afghanistan, East Timor, Solomon Islands etc.

Casualties.........nil.

[roguevalley]

6. No one signs up for war

This lie has cost us about 8000 wounded and 300 dead so far.
I don't think any contract written demands this of our young
people. Ask the bastards how many of them have kin in the war,
how many served and did they see war?

If they didn't, tell them to SHUT THE F**K UP!

Works for me. :)

[JackSwift]

7. Well, they did

and they shouldn't have. I never signed up because I never wanted some bozo telling me I'd have to fight a war I thought was unjust. That and my mother would disown me. These guys are fighting a war for Halliburton profits and nothing more or less.

[rook1]

26. HAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Uh HUh!

[Kamika]

8. They signed up..

They signed up to jump when their officer tells them to jump.

[redeye]

9. 'Zackly

Actually I agree with the argument that the troops signed the dotted line. Sorry, but in my eyes the value of your life goes down when you sign a contract that says "I forfeit my life to the country."

[Kamika]

12. cant edit the post so some add for mods

For mods.


I dont mean to sound like a conservative it is just my opinion that when they sign up they do sign up to do what their commanding officer tells them to do.

It has nothing to do with conservatism.

[Redleg]

28. They also expect that their superiors will deploy them wisely

and will issue them lawful orders and not get them f@cked in a shithole like Iraq. They expect their commanders to be concerned for their welfare and to not treat them as cannon fodder.

Jesus Christ, have you no compassion for our poor servicemen and women? You do sound like a conservative.

I say this because I am a former Army officer and have a nephew over in Iraq right now.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Your arguments are valid. Those who say "They signed up

for it" are invariably people who'd never have signed up themselves because they have other priorities (as Dick Cheney did in the Viet Nam era) and think anyone who did is a chump. I don't know if you can ever penetrate that sort of callousness.

"They signed up for it" doesn't excuse the troops having their water, food, and even toilet paper rationed so that they have to ask their families to send them things. "They signed up for it" doesn't excuse the Bushistas cutting their pay and veterans' benefits while they're there. "They signed up for it" doesn't excuse the playing around with their tour lengths.

Recruiters often, perhaps more usually than not, make promises about assignments (duty stations or training in a particular field) that aren't kept, but this is about breaking some more basic promises.

[oldcoot]

21. Exactly

There is no excuse for the United States not taking proper care of the troops and veterans. I bet that if SodoffBush's acquaintances (the "they signed up crowd") had an employer who treated them like our current government treats the troops, they would sue their employer.

[Psychoblues99]

13. Bullshit. The troops, by and large, are young, dumb and the proverbial

full of come. They have been indoctrinated to trust their government, to expect American wisdom and fairness, to believe at least most of what they are told and especially what they are told from positions of ultimate authority. Most have never had to experience the heartbreak of realizing that they have really been lied to in a way that might cost them their lives. Youth has that dilemma.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,..,,,.,.,,.,,,.,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,,.,,.,,,.,.,,.,.,,.,,.,,.,.,.,,.,,.,.,,.,.,,.,.,,.,.,.,,,.,,.,.,.,,,.,,.,,.,.

on edit: We are not recruiting old men and women, the vast majority of our "troops" are really just kids for crying out loud.

[Mari333]

14. yep, and my son signed into the Guard and his time was UP

in Nov..he served his 6 years to help with Homeland Security..now RUMMY is demanding that Guard units are forced to STAY in, a stop lock has been put on all the kids who SERVED their time...they cant leave..
and the Guard kids who cant leave even after they served their time are told they will be deployed overseas...
Total Bullshit!
www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Arianrhod]

30. this is unconscionable

Men who ran away from military service ought not to be locking other people's children into their contracts of integrity. I told a coworker the other day that I thought the "administration" might do this, as a means of avoiding bringing back a very unpopular draft. What other choice do they have? We're spread so thin around the world right now that the terrorists must be just itching to hit some more targets, knowing it will be almost impossible for us to respond adequately. We need more soldiers, and if no one will sign up, the only options are to start a draft, or lock everyone in.

Sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's situation. :(

[bigtree]

20. just kids

Many students graduating from high school find themselves faced with the dilemma of how to pay for a college education or gain hands-on training to build a career. Some choose the military, feeling they have no other options or that joining the services will be their best ticket to travel, adventure and future career success

The Pentagon stalks these kids from secondary school on into adulthood thanks to an addition to the 'No child left behind act' passed in 2002.

The section grants military recruiters access to students' private information. With this access, recruiters can make unsolicited calls and send direct-mail recruitment literature to a young person’s home. http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/news/nochild-text.htm

The new law is intended to pressure districts into removing decision-making authority about such matters from individual schools and district administrators by making military access the subject of a political negotiation between the school board, the Pentagon, and pro-military elected officials.

They put the heat on and gloss over or downplay the threat of extended combat duty. I sat through the process with my son.

[Kbowe]

16. If you sign on to a LIE, does it count?

This is what the troops and their families should be asking.

[tabasco]

17. All of us should be glad they did sign up

Based on many of the comments I read here, it seems many consider those who join the military some sort of lower class who deserve what they get. YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT! Many young people join the military to serve their country. Many join because it is a family tradition to serve in uniform. If we didn't have people with this basic level of patriotism, all of you intellectual do-nothing talkers would have to be DRAFTED. Be glad we have young people with the courage to join the military; it is no small commitment and involves personal hardship. Those of you who consider the military morally inferior can KISS MY ASS. Some of the finest people in this country serve in uniform, and you'd better be damn glad of it. The military doesn't vote on where they get sent. The CIVILIAN authority of this country is TRUSTED to use military force as a LAST RESORT in the national interest. Yes, this administration has breached this trust, and believe me, many in the military know this. Those of you who state that the military "deserve what they get" for signing up are beneath contempt.

[44wax]

19. well put thank you

[treepig]

18. ok the argument is the 'victims' (i.e, the troops) are tragically naive

but don't they have parent or grandparents who could have filled them in - or are there whole generations of the monumentally stupid/willfully ignorant out there?

it's not like the iraq attack is 'outside-the-box' and not expected -
heck the u.s. military has been involved in 130 'foreign interventions' in past century (more than one a year!):

see the list here (caution, pdf):

http://tyle.com/NO-WAR/en/usMilitaryInterventions.pdf.


further, this is only a "partial list of U.S. military interventions from 1890 to 1999. This guide does NOT include demonstration duty by military police,mobilizations of the National Guard, offshore shows of naval strength,reinforcements of embassy personnel, the use of non-Defense Departmentpersonnel (such as the Drug Enforcement Agency), military exercises, non-combat mobilizations (such as replacing postal strikers), the permanentstationing of armed forces, covert actions where the U.S. did not play acommand and control role, the use of small hostage rescue units, most usesof proxy troops, U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes, foreign disasterassistance, military training and advisory programs not involving directcombat, civic action programs, and many other military activities"

[RobinA]

22. I Wish All Troops

could stay home and never get shot at. No one deserves to die at 20 in the desert or anywhere else.

However. If you sign up to be in the military, you kinda can't complain if you end up in a war. This is not the first unpopular war, it's not the first war mismanaged in Washington, and it's not the first war that was not real popular with the liberated. In fact, most wars are all of those things. If somebody thought they were signing up for a well-run, popular war where the resupplies were always on time....

Maybe it's because I grew up with the draft, although I was never quite old enough to be drafted and I am a female, but if you sign up... I'm not unsympathetic, but hey....it's not a hard question.

[dsc]

23. Given the length of terms

and the various stop loss orders around half of the military if not more signed up under Clinton when they had a reasonable expectation that they wouldn't be sent all over the world with no supplies. Many people over there are de facto draftees (stop loss order). They have been done wrong.

[Skip Intro]

24. They sound like f***ing slimy car salesmen

Nothing against legit car salesmen (and women) but is this what the moron hypocrites call supporting the troops?

People who would say this type of thing about the men and women dying for bush's lies are the most vile creatures known to man. I will be happy when they are forced back to the selfish, hating, rotting gutters from whence they rose.

[baldguy]

25. .

[Redleg]

27. They didn't sign up for that crap.

I believe many of them wanted to serve their country, to make it safe but did not sign up for GW Bush's around the world pre-emptive strike tour.

When I was a young naive Army ROTC cadet in college I believed it was a way for me to serve my country. At that time the cold war was still cold and USSR was the big boogey man. Many of us believed we were making our country safe from Soviet aggression.

After seeing Raygun and Bush I involve the US military in countries such as Grenada, Honduras, Nicaragua (via the Contras), Panama, Somalia, and then Iraq, I could see the direction the Repubs wanted to take us and I didn't like it so I resigned my commission. I didn't bust my ass to earn a commission so that I could be part of an Army that would flex its muscles on weak countries that posed no threat to the United States.

[sendero]

29. serving your country..

.. is one thing. Serving Halliburton is another. Kids didn't sign up for this. They signed up to defend the US against a real threat, not a trump-up one.

I predict this 'war' will suppress recruitment for a long time. People in the armed services know they've been used. Nobody likes being used, and they will tell their friends and families.

Because of this abuse of the military, we will soon see a draft. Let's hope it is a fair draft, that would set a historical precedent.

[RamboLiberal]

31. I just got a letter today from a soldier I sent a Care package to

You all probably have seen the posts about this from SoCalDem. The young PFC said in his letter that he's heard that they shouldn't complain cause they signed up for this. He went on to say it is easy for people to say this "when they're in their A/C and drinking nice cool water and sleeping right and don't got to worry".

What's inexcusable in all this besides AWOL's and poodle boy's lying to get us in to this quagmire is that Cheney's buddies are not supplying the barracks, A/C, cool drinks, meals, latrines, etc while they are raking in tons of money. It's the shortage of rifles to armor units, shortage of ceramic plates for the troops body armor, not sending in the right weapons lubricant to prevent weapons jamming. It's the way Whistle-Ass, Big Dick and Rummy pissed off the UN so now we'll have a hell of a time to get anyone to help us. It's the lying to the troops and putting stop-loss orders so they won't have to commit political suicide and admit we need to bring back the draft or get the hell out of Iraq.