The truth is our leaders will always betray us.

[The Lone Liberal]

Throughout history the leaders have eventually sold out every cause. Be it political, religious, social, you name it and the masses gathered together for a common purpose have ended with their heads on the block. Dye and Zeigler examines the process in their book, “ The Irony of Democracy.” We, the people are just so much flotsam in the woof and weave of history. The one true thing that comes from reading history is, “it has always been better to be rich and powerful than to be the people.”

For the great masses of people the main purpose of life is to provide the protection for wealth. We are to labor so that the wealthy stay wealthy, we are to provide future generations of our offspring so that future generations of the wealthy stay wealthy. It is an endless cycle of the good life for a few and depredation for the many.

All that said, the fact of the matter is that there is no use railing against the system or for change. Nothing will change and the system will either destroy you or co-opt you if you become to strong. There is no solution, as the great bard said, “ we are nothing but players upon the stage of life, who strut full of sound and fury for a brief moment upon that stage.” Well, not quite what he said, but I think that is what he meant to say, if he had spent a few moments thinking.

[whathappened]

1. i can see that riteing

on the walls for alot of people , some make it to the top and some are doomed to repeat there fathers and there fathers crawl thru this life , i'm one of the followers of life as my father and his father , we have no lust to be on top of the heap and controling someone esles walk thru this life by controling the amount they earn as workers , this seems so not right to me and we should all have a say in the future of this country , we have lost our voices and now we are losing are self respect along with it , it is such a shame that most of the rich , now i said most , not all will not help there fellow man in need

[LittleApple81]

2. I think you mean writing on the wall? n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

3. The primary goal of our "leaders" is to grab

money, power, influence, control for themselves. You are correct, it will never change. Sad and cynical as that may sound.

[shance]

34. This is rubbish and a weak spineless copout so WE DONT have to

take any action ourselves.

You're right our leaders are all worthless zeros so lets throw in the towel.

Im sure alot of these 'give it up' posts are Freepers, but for the true DU'ers, shame on you. You may BE ONE OF THOSE leaders one day. So may I. Get off the damned pitty pot and do something about it.

If we hold leaders accountable and DO OUR PART and stay involved and BECOME LEADERS ourselves then alot lot less corruption will occur.

[The Lone Liberal]

35. Okay, lets take the system and make the system do what the system does.

oh, we end up at the same place don't we? Please, rather than a tirade, how about an answer, a concrete, take it to the bank answer. One where something changes for the people. How about we start with that phony dream of egalitarianism. How about we prove that all men are created equal. Of course equality starts at the delivery room doesn’t it. So how do we make it work? I am not on a pity pot, nice term for debate, I rather look at it as a realist look at the situation. Rather than a dreamers ideal world.

By the way Freepers are the biggest supporters of everyone can do it and if they don't then its because they didn’t try. Not that the leaders of the revolution quit and went to the country club.

[InkAddict]

38. Not quite -

one can't walk through a locked vault door - COME ON DOWN, The Price is Right - When ignorant parents, second-rate teachers, and a child's church (fundie nonsense)neglect to guide the children in order to keep their bigotry intact, the stage for failure has been set in stone - The clueless youngsters don't see their value set up as cannonfodder by the wealthy AWOLs of the world.

[Maple]

4. Or possibly it's because

it's easy to criticize, not so easy to do.

[The Lone Liberal]

6. And, what may I ask would you do to change the system?

I can assure you if you have the answer you will be co-opted before you can put it into effect. If you do not have the answer, which is mostly likely, you will be allowed to continue the carnival.

Let us hear the answer, I will be most happy to follow, even though that path usually ends at the gallows.


On Edit: For the record I am not criticizing, I am stating a truism.

[Maple]

14. Run for election yourself

see what it's like on the other side.

It's no way to make friends...no matter which way you vote, you piss off half the people.

And what looks so clear cut to the voters has a thousand ramifications and a great deal of background you never thought of.

You are always walking a thin fine line, and even one word can get you in trouble.

A democracy depends on an informed citizenry...that we don't have.

But it's what we need.

Without that...it's a three ring circus...and you just try and do the best you can for the most people.

And you never ever expect thanks for making the effort.

So some politicians, at some point, say to hell with it...and reward themselves.

[The Lone Liberal]

22. That is the point

reward themselves. That is not condemnation. Itis just a truth, such as gravity. When power is obtained power becomes a commodity. A commodity is sold to the highest bidder, which may well be oneself. The one indisputable fact is that the highest bidder will not be the masses on the bottom. They do not have the wherewithal to purchase power.

[Maple]

40. Some do, most don't

Same as in anything else.

Politicans are people, not saints.

Anymore than people are saints in any other field.

[The Lone Liberal]

41. That is what I am saying, they are not saints or anything close to saints

they will betray a movement for a better offer, just like any person.

[Ein]

5. They betray us.

I agree with the first two paragraphs, but I do feel there is use to railing against the system.

Civil disobediance and activism have shown thier merits. Although sometimes I think it might take more.

We can change it, though.

edit: Why do we put up with it... that is the question.

[The Lone Liberal]

9. Please point me to an event where change occured.

Gandhi sold out India, the blacks are in almost as bad a fix as before the civil rights movement Their economic plight is just as great, their political plight is just as great. After all that blood and toil there is little change for the black masses.

[Ein]

12. I agree the causes are co-opted

but they got SOME change. They just gave up the fight when the first signs of victory showed up. The blacks seem much better off than they were, the outright racial violence seems to have been curbed immensely, and segregation isn't legal anymore, its just institutional.

That said, that doesn't have to be the case.

It doesn't have to be this way. The proletariate is all powerful.

[The Lone Liberal]

25. Oh, the USSR was a prime example of the masses being betrayed

"All pigs are equal, it is just that some are more equal."

[Abe Linkman]

7. Thanks lone liberal.

It isn't the most encouraging thought to entertain, but I agree with you that it is the truth.

I'm not sure about using names here on DU (fear of being banned), but fervent supporters of any Pres. candidate with even half a chance of being a contender, are going to be just as disappointed as many of us were, with Clinton.

That shouldn't be surprising, when you think about it. Look at how they only describe "problems" and speak to vague aspirations. I haven't heard any of the major Dem. candidates say what their solution is to any problems, in specific language. And, even if they have or do, they can and will, claim changed conditions, when the time comes to confront the rich and powerful who own most of the wealth here and abroad.

The whole thing would have to be re-thought, and that isn't going to happen.

[The Lone Liberal]

11. They keep us slaving at the wheel with a dream.

At the end of life for the majority that is all they still possess, a dream.

[ulysses]

8. oh, ok

All that said, the fact of the matter is that there is no use railing against the system or for change.

Cool. Wonder what's on TV tonight...

[Nikia]

10. I wouldn't

Alright, that is easy to say being the young idealist that I am. I don't think that it has to be that way. Leading a political, religious, or social cause is worth way more than wealth. I suppose though that compromise sneaks up on people, especially since the media is owned by the establishment and national campaigns often require a lot of money. I suppose that it is easy to fall into that trap.

[The Lone Liberal]

15. In the first place ..

it is not easy to become a leader if you are not one of the elite in the first place.

Should you rise to lead a cause which threatens the status quo then you would either be destroyed or co-opted by the elite.

Either way the people are betrayed.

[Nikia]

19. How does getting killed betray your cause?

I'm not saying that I or anyone else really would like to get killed leading a cause (Although I suppose that martyrdom does have somewhat of an appeal for some over dying of disease or in an accident). It certainly isn't good that someone would die prematurely when they could continue to fight. Such a person would be doing their part and hopefully inspire others to continue on. I think that the problem in the past has been that people mourn their leader and get depressed and scared rather than inspired. We cannot become pessimistic. Hope must drive us.

[The Lone Liberal]

20. If hope waxes you fenders, more power to you.

I myself see little recourse to changing anything. Short of a world wide revolution and then it would be only a matter of time before we had a new set of elite cracking the whip.

For the majority of us, our destiny is to pick the rich man's cotton.

[Solomon]

13. Whoa. Hold On There A Minute.

Let my wisdom be a balm for you. I understand your frustration completely. However, I have to remind you that however hard the road, we human beans are ever evolving into better conditions for all. Right now we are faced with the obstacle of white supremacy which is an injustice in the world. We have the technology and bounty to naturally evolve a sort of natural uncoerced unforced from above socialism. Some of us on the planet, who are enjoying an unfair advantage and prominence in the way things are, are fighting against bringing justice to the planet.

Education and instant communication changes everything. The more people are educated, the more democracy is possible. The reason our current leaders are selling out, is that they are working hard to keep things the way they are, instead of working to help the evolution of civilization.

February 11, 2001 (the day of the worldwide protest against the coming war) was a day that changed everything. It proved that the masses do indeed count. Especially so where they are well educated, and have access to instant communication.

Do not despair. It makes me angry too to watch the failures we are seeing. But life evolves. It has too. It will get better. We will make it so.

[The Lone Liberal]

16. A dream is a dream.

History tells that dreams are tools for control. When the people try to make the dream reality it is always betrayed. When in history was it otherwise?

[Ein]

17. Revolts generally work, right.

I don't think I need to name any specific one, but reading up on the history of small countries you see plenty of popular coups, that usually lead to a blowback by dominant world powers. But they get the job done initially.

[The Lone Liberal]

18. Momentary success does not equate to a system changing event.

As you say, the power elite always end up back on marble while the people are relegated back to the mud hovels.

[Ein]

26. Well

If the populous of those powers wouldn't let that crap happen, if they could, then the smaller countries would be much better off.

Ideal world, but that doesn't mean it cannot happen.

edit: Nicaragua and Cuba were able to shake off the assaults at first, the success overall can be debated, though.

[Solomon]

21. Well if you look at the progress of history

you can see that we went from systems where there was no middle class, everyone but the rulers were basically servants.

Over the years has evolved a huge middle class which, with its access to universities, have obtained the kind of knowledge which could only be obtained by the elite in their Mystery Schools.

You are right that things do not appear to get better. But we are only here for a short time. As bad off as the mass of blacks in this
country still are, I doubt blacks would say that obtaining civil rights was not worth it.

It may be that exploitative systems were necessary at some point to accumulate wealth and power so that humanity could be lurched forward in progress, but now that these systems have obtained the ability to produce with abundance, we can make the world better for everyone. Only some people want the abundance for themselves. If we can survive the coming end of white supremacy, mankind can survive in great shape.

[The Lone Liberal]

24. The nobles who fed off of the serfs

are of the same lineage as those who today feed off the serfs. Nothing changes. Nothing can change.

Not a cry of despair. It is rather a release from seeking dreams and looking the facts square in the face. Without that understanding we will continue to hang on to false hope and unreachable dreams.

[Solomon]

29. Look I Understand.

You posted this because you want us to convince you otherwise, to prove you wrong. We know that. We've all been there. Hang in there.

[The Lone Liberal]

33. Thank you for the understanding, but you misunderstand.

What I have stated is my position after many years of study. I think I am correct, but please correct me if I am wrong. I don't think you can. There is no historical proof to dispute my thesis. Until we look into the abysmal pit of hopelessness we will not fuel the anger necessary to change the system. However, before we change the system we must invent a new way.

As Einstein said, “you do not solve today’s problems with today’s knowledge.” We will not seek that knowledge until we understand that you cannot make deals with power. If you find your body invested with leeches you do not try to cut a deal whereby the leeches only take half your blood, in the end you still die, only slower.

[Solomon]

36. Well. Okay. I will admit

to you that because I went where you are now, I decided to opt for therapy. The world is so crazy its the sane people who need treatment now. My slide over the edge began with the 2000 selection, followed by Enron, followed by 9-11, followed by carpet bombing Afghanistan, followed by anthrax attack on democrats, followed by invasion of Iraq, ... you name it.

I will admit that an attempt was made to fix me by simply telling me, "stop paying attention so much", and "stop watching the cable news". But only two things have helped me thus far, DU and sorry to say, Paxil.

Now go ahead and admit you love DU. You're here for support like all of us, and support you will get. I'm very tired right now, but if I had the time, I could write you a glorious tome on the wondrous advancement and evolution of the human race. We are a long ways from where we need to be. But you know, sometimes after you've gained a little ground, there's an effort by some to go backwards. We have to fight that too and during such times it may seem as if no progress at all is being made.

Let's see what happens in the coming days my friend.

[The Lone Liberal]

37. No therapy need here.

The truth is our leaders will always betray us.

I would like to hear a plan of action that is predicated upon that reality. Instead of “wonking” a system that is corrupt and leads only to betrayal. I would like to see movement towards some new thinking. Perhaps we need to be angry, sometimes that will shock and stimulate action.

[InkAddict]

39. Truly spoken out from behind the pharmaceutically

rose-colored glasses.

[Droopy]

23. That's a very sad world view you have there

If you think it's bad now try living at the turn of the last century. A few grassroots movements that have improved life significantly since then:

Women's sufferage
Civil rights
Worker's unions
A woman's right to choose

I'm sure there are many more, that's just off the top of my head.

Yeah, there will be comprimise. Without it you can't get anything done in Washington. Especially if we have a split Congress or Congress remains in the control of the repukes. I was listening to a guy one time being interviewed on NPR. The guy was a Dem but he said when he was young he was a socialist. He'd had a dim view of our system and didn't see much difference between the repukes and the Dems. He worked as an aid to one of the Congressmen (I forget who) and he said that experience changed the way he looked at politics. He said you would not believe the deal making that goes on behind the scenes to get things done.

[The Lone Liberal]

27. I know about "log rolling"

and the theory of concurrent majorities. Getting things done is not the problem, it is for whom they are done. Politics is nothing more than a system to decide who gets what.

Women's suffrage -- Why not give someone a vote if the vote doesn’t change anything.

Civil rights -- Same here, plus words are wonderful when you don’t have to provide concrete actions.

Worker's unions -- They same here, the workers have been sold out by their leaders, the government has made it impossible to better the workers with unions. Again words are cheap when you don’t expect to operate upon them.

A woman's right to choose --- Since when did the government have a right to tell any human that they had no right to control of their body. We just accept that the elite can direct us body and soul.

[greatauntoftriplets]

28. Yes to all.

But on the last point, women will always get abortions if they want them. The point (as I know that you know it is...) is that women should not die when they have to make a choice. If prostitution is the world's oldest profession, then the abortionist is probably the world's second oldest profession.

[The Lone Liberal]

30. The Point is the Elite never had a right

to say what anyone did with their body. So they had nothing to give.

[greatauntoftriplets]

31. Ah, but with their money and power....

...they made untold numbers believe they had the right. Many still believe it.

I don't like abortion -- but think women should not be forced to have a child when it is not right for them. Men can walk away -- not ALL men would do that, of course -- but too many do, saying it ain't their problem.

[Droopy]

32. All right, I give up

Long live the Revolution! Now where's my Karl Marx philosophy book at.