THIS ELECTION WAS ABOUT ONE THING ONLY...RELIGION

[revree]

One quarter of Ohio voters are born again. Bush swept the Christian states. He owns religion in this country. Dems do not yet know how to talk about religion and morals, yet we are far more moral then the lying, cheating, thieving Republicans. We must come up with some powerful ways to frame religion to our benefit, and get the "moral" vote back where it belongs...with the party of truth, justice and fairness.

[ewagner]

1. Agree.........

it's becoming more and more apparent......

now that we understand that, maybe we can come up with some way to deal with it.

[UCLA Dem]

2. religion=homophobia, at least in this case.

[patrice]

3. Agreed. I say let's take it to 'em.

Bush's War prooves that they are "whited sepluchres". They don't give a real S - - T about dead babies. We live in an anti-Life society. Abortion is to be expected in a hostile land.

[aquart]

4. Of course it wasn't. It was about power.

It's very sad that so-called Christians have such distorted faith that a platform of hatred and repression looks godly to them.

[sandnsea]

20. Power, or delusions of grandeur?

I think it's about the people having nothing else to give them dignity, all they have now is their sense of religion. The right has manipulated people into thinking they have to have that religion or be ostracized, and that the religion has to hate certain things or it's not the correct "born again" kind. When I think about it, even the "born again" doctrine is condescending and denigrating. They've made hate an art form, but it's not about real power, it's just about the same old false sense of superiority.

[okieinpain]

5. yes, time for a new crusade. they were all over c-span this morning.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Faith vs. Reason

[AndyTiedye]

7. I will Be Really Disgusted if we have TWO FUNDIE Parties in the USA

Is that what you are proposing?

[fearnobush]

16. No not Fundy, we were never fundy under Jimmy Carter (a Born Again)

We have to give Christians a reason to vote Dem. I'm sorry to admit it but, they are marginalizing us... winning and we keep denying that hard fact.

[fearnobush]

8. We must grow the Christian Left.

WE must crate our own Born Again. We can focus on the liberal teachings of Christ, you know, the parts that the fundies completely ingnor like the Golden Rule and the "He who hath not sinned may throw the first stone."

[doni_georgia]

28. Yes! What I have been begging for

What kills me is most of the people I know who are spouting reight-wing crap NEVER even go to church. They sit home with their beer on Sunday watching football and NASCAR.

[sweetheart]

9. Yes it was

It appears that christians (not real ones), have pre-chosen the
myth that bush cares about unborn babies, and democracy.

Those same christians can't show me a word in the bible mentioning
gay people... funny that.

[AlinPA]

10. I agree, totally. Religion and homophobia.

I'd say more but I'm tired after a long night.

[darthmix]

11. Yeah - the problem is that we're in the middle of an evangelical

revolution, and these folks will only vote for candidates who are anti-gay and anti-abortion. The pubs have very cleverly nursed these issues to build up an incredibly powerful voting base.

Our challenge - and it's not going to be easy - is to try and take this base away from them. I'm not saying we should become anti-gay or anti-choice; obviously we can't do that. But we don't NEED to get them to vote for us; we just need to drive our own wedge between them and the pubs. We need to find issues, as they have for us, that make it impossible for die-hard Christians to support them, and then trumpet those issues very, very loud.

A start, I guess, is to raise the volume on our moral attack against the bush administration. This president has an EXTREMELY callous disrespect for life, as evidenced in his war policy. In an election year Kerry could never make that outright accusation. But we can.

[Straight Shooter]

12. Nobody is more gullible than a "Christian"

Just ask Jim and Tammy Baker, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, all those rich white evangelicals milking the lifeblood of their base.

God must love a fool because he made so many of them.

(Genuine Christians not included, but then you know that.)

[Blue Gardener]

13. The blood of the innocents is now on their hands

They know that more of our soldiers, and innocent Iraqi children, will be killed in the years to come, yet they voted for him anyway. That is a stain that will not be able to wash off.
(I am formulating a letter to the editor about this, any input is welcome).

[info being]

17. And the only appropriate response from us is condemnation...

not "reaching out."

[info being]

14. WE NEED TO STOP STUPING TO THEIR LEVEL!

Enough! It doesn't work. They may have mental clarity with their religion, but their way of thinking only works to guarantee a train wreck.

Let them wreck the train but, by all means, don't "reach out" to them as they do it. Let them learn the hard way. Let THEM come crawling to us and not the other way around. We have cared for them and have only been ridiculed for it. That's it for me. Fuck em.

[grannybgood]

15. The trouble with this is that the Christian morals today seem to be

lacking any signs of morality. They seem to thrive on hate mongering and conflicting moral values. Bomb their families so we can fell safer. Abortion is murder but letting the born go without food or health care or adequate housing they don't concern themselves with much. Ban homosexuals but cover for priests molesting alter boys. Scream that we are baby killers but refuse birth control. I'm sorry but if bowing to what passes for Christianity in this country today is what it take to win I'll pass. Like Ghandi said "I like your Christ to bad his people aren't more like him".

[atreides1]

18. They Are Not Christians, They Are Puritans

These people have no regard for the teachings of Christ, they dont' believe in love, forgiveness, or tolerance. They would rather inflict punishment, they prefer to destroy, and they have no lve in their hearts for anyone or anything that does not fit into the narrow minded vision that they all have in common.

Start calling them Puritans, for that is what they are. They seek control, power, the ability to determine every aspect of our lives.
But they lack that one thing that Jesus tried to teach, love.

[atreides1]

19. They Are Not Christians, They Are Puritans

These people have no regard for the teachings of Christ, they dont' believe in love, forgiveness, or tolerance. They would rather inflict punishment, they prefer to destroy, and they have no lve in their hearts for anyone or anything that does not fit into the narrow minded vision that they all have in common.

Start calling them Puritans, for that is what they are. They seek control, power, the ability to determine every aspect of our lives.
But they lack that one thing that Jesus tried to teach, love.

[nostamj]

21. God's An American!

When I wrote this song for The Question W Revue, I thought I was writing satire. It turns out, it was a documentary. This has been a horrible year and today is just the worst. They might as well starting sending some of that 'faith-based' funding directly to Fred Phelps.

GOD'S AN AMERICAN (The "Right" Kind of Hymn)

UNDER GOD ...
OUR NATION STILL REMAINS!
ALL BLESSINGS FLOW, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS REIGNS.
TRUST IN THE BIBLE.
SING HYMNS OF PRAISE TO THE LORD!
JERRY AND PAT ARE YOUR FRIENDS
YOU CAN TRUST THEM
WHEN THEY SAY......

WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN
A PATRIOT THRU AND THRU!
WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN.
HIS ROBES ARE RED WHITE AND BLUE!

KEEPING THINGS RIGHT WHILE WE'RE WAITING FOR RAPTURE
BREATHE IN THE INCENSE OF MYRRH.
GOD LOVES OUR GREAT FRUITED PLANES--
JUST MINUS ALL THE FRUITS...
GOD IS QUITE CLEAR ON THIS:
GAYS MUST BE SILENCED
OTHERWISE, THEY WILL FIND NEW RECRUITS.
IT WAS NOT ADAM AND STEVE,
BUT ADAM AND EVE!
AND BUSH WILL PRESERVE OUR SANCTITY!

WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN!
A PATRIOT THRU AND THRU
WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN
HIS ROBES ARE RED, WHITE AND BLUE.

WE KNOW THAT GOD PROTECTS RED STATES.
WE KNOW THAT GOD APPROVES OF THOSE WE HATE!
WE KNOW THAT GOD BLESSES JUST YOU AND ME.
HE LOVES SELECTIVELY!

UNTIL THEY'RE BORN WE WILL FIGHT FOR EACH BABY
AFTER THAT, KIDS YOU'RE ALL ON YOUR OWN.
WELFARE AND HANDOUTS ARE NOT LIBERTY
WE WILL KEEP THE BOUNTY THAT WE HAVE GROWN.

WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN
REPUBLICAN THRU AND THRU
WE KNOW THAT GOD'S AN AMERICAN.
HIS ROBES ARE RED, WHITE AND BLUE.

IF GOD COULD VOTE, HE WOULD VOTE FOR BUSH!
IF GOD COULD VOTE, HE WOULD VOTE FOR CHENEY TOO!
SINCE GOD CAN'T VOTE, YOU MUST VOTE IN HIS NAME
JOIN US OR YOU'LL FEEL! THE! WRATH!
OF OUR AMERICAN GOD!!!

(Hallelujah!)

[lindashaw]

22. Bingo! Leo Strauss, the father of Neo-Conservatism, says this:

If you can attach a religious element to an issue -- it doesn't matter which religion, any will do -- you will then be able to sway the masses. You can get them to endure untold hardships, you can get them to go to war or sacrifice their lives. It was a proven tactic used by Hitler. Strauss taught this philosophy at the University of Michigan for years, and he graduated over 100 PhDs. Newt Gingrich and his group were some, and one of his prime pupils was Paul Wolfowitz.

Karl Rove did what was the simplist thing in the world for him. He connected George Bush's presidency to religious issues and the masses fell into step. They have even followed him to war. Many suffer poverty, but they feel it's worth it because they will have a reward in heaven. Perfect!

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

23. Corporate media 24/7

This has a lot more to do with it than religion.

If you have enough money you can buy a radio station. You can't make somebody give up their religion.

[PATRICK]

24. Framing issues?

That's kind of nutty handling of your pearls in the hog wallow. Bushco also handled the issues by taking the Church rolls for contacts. Tch tch, Mr Bush. No pure Polly will behave like that on OUR side.

The Amish don't even know what's going on in the world and have no investment in the misery they can be tricked into supporting. Our Taliban are fat and TV fed.

This sounds like the abominable swing voter strategy. Disguise yourself like Bush!

Well, go all the way then. Run as a GOP and at the right moment after years of voting for the Repugs, all the secret Dems all of a sudden switch parties. Or why switch? Keep subverting and then suddenly change all the policies. Even taking the GOP down in flames is a win.

Always push your argument to the absurd extreme to remind yourself why it is "fundamentally" wrong.

[darthmix]

25. We don't HAVE to take on the mantle of the religious right

in order to get these voters - because WE DON'T NEED THESE VOTERS. I don't think they'll EVER come over to our side. We just need to break down their support for THEIR side.

As long as abortion and gay rights are the only "moral value" issues in the atmosphere, every person who considers themself a dedicated Christian will feel obligated to get out, vote, and vote Republican.

So we have to play up issues that make them conflicted about doing that. We have to - very pointedly - show the human cost of the neocon's war policies. We need to go out of our way to attach Bush's face to the 100,000 innocents - mostly women and children - who've died under our bombs in Iraq. His is NOT a culture of life. We have to show that.

[neohippie]

26. Morality

You mean morality... from an administration that lied to us so that we could go to war, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people in foreign lands, poison them with radioactive munitions, and destabilize the middle east all for profit!

How is it that the same people who can get so fired up about an unborn child have no feelings for the human costs of a war that was fought on behalf of energy and defense companies, who prop up this mis-administration.

I just don't get it. This country is full of bigots and fear-mongers and apparently the sheeple will never open their eyes to the truth that seems as plain as day to most people on this board.

How could this election be about morality? Surely there are Christians out there that are as outraged as I am about what is going on in the world.

[darthmix]

31. I believe many of them are.

And all of them could be. The problem is that we didn't give the MORAL issue of Bush's foreign policy of a lot of play in this election. Kerry's critique of Bush's war was good, but it was mainly a critique of strategy. We need that, but we ALSO need to appeal to people's sense of the human cost of this pointless war. And human cost doesn't just mean our soldiers; it means the enormous number of civilian casualties.

What we need to do is spend the next four years connecting Bush and the pubs to the terror and violence that has taken hold of the world. Let's stop pulling our punches. I think Christians really DO respect life, and they'll have a hard time voting republican if we get vocal on this issue.

They might not vote DEM, and that's okay. But we MUST destabilize the religious base if we're ever going to win back the white house. We have to make voting Republican as impossible for them as voting Democrat is now.

[StupidFOX]

27. No

They used religion as an excuse to vote for the nutbag, afraid Kerry would raise taxes (despite the fact that Kerry was more fiscally responsible). Greedy SOBs

[noiretextatique]

29. bigotry masked as religion was what this election was about

impugning the character of the far decent man than himself is what this election was about.
lying is what this election was about.
i don't who anyone can believe * is a decent man, or in any way fit for the office of the presidency.

[Orangepeel]

30. morality = laws against things I don't want to do

People know that the Democratic party is more "christian" in action than the republican party. If you ask voters which party is more likely to feed the hungry, house the homeless, or provide care for the sick, party, we'll win in a walk.

Voters might think it is about religion, but it is, at most, about the veneer of religion.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Once we all get past the shock from today

we need to start talking religion.

We can no longer avoid talking about religion just because it may offend our sensibilities.

We need to redefine the segments of our society. We are no long Republicans and Democrats. We are Realists vs Fundies. On the one side we have people of intelligence who believe in reality. Who base their POV on science and fact and on the other hand, we have the faith based reality chrisitians, who really need to get a better fantasy.

However, in order to 'save' some of these faith based folks, we need to find ways to explain the world to them in terms that they can relate to. While at the same time educate them about how life really works.

If we don't start trying to talk to some of the more moderate of these 'christians', we may not survive the world that the real wackos want to shove down our collective throats.

[darthmix]

34. The moderate ones might talk to us. That's fine.

But the bushites have radicalized their base. Evangelical Christan voters have come to see the issues in exceedingly simple terms - so simple that they won't even THINK of listening to us as long as we're

1) pro-choice
2) pro-gay rights

Period. They have moblized the entire religious population around these two issues. People who go to church once a week overwhelmingly voted for Bush yesterday. We cannot, ever, win most of the voters Bush got yesterday.

What we CAN do is demonstrate that the pubs don't really stand with them, that THEY don't really respect life. There is a HUGE conflict between Bush's so-called religious ideology and what the pubs are doing in the world. Many Christians DO dislike Bush for his war. If we bring that issue to them, they might not come over to us, but they'll lose their loyalty to the Republicans.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. We need to educate them that you can't be pro-choice

and pro-war and still call yourself a christian. To be pro-war is to be pro-murder. Time to take back the 10 Commandments. Let them post them in our public places. Then point them out and ask them how many commandments did you break today? If we want to survive we are going need to fight fire with fire and expose their hypocrisy.

Time to start flyering church parking lots. Let people know who people like Pat Robertson consider to be friends and business partners. Expose their lying butts to the stupid people who have been fooled into believing their lies.

Most 'born again' people are just regular folks. They are living in a scary and confusing world and these charlatans are offering them solutions and answers. We need to offer them better options.

PBWY
DYEW

[darthmix]

41. Agree 100%.

I'm not a Christian, and I'm not going to lie and say I am one. But I know there ARE Christians on this board who agree with us, and I hope they'll start making this case AS Christians. War, as the conservatives practice it, is murder; it itself is a form of terrorism. We need to start talking about it that way.

[THUNDER HANDS]

33. find a way to link MONEY & GOD together

and we win.

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Yes, show them that their beloved Pat Robertson

is only interested in stuffing his greedy pockets with their hard earned cash. Flyer their cars on Sunday, with stories about Pat and his African business partners.

We need to start a massive re-education campaign. Half the country needs to be deprogrammed.

[juliagoolia]

35. Christians campaign for Hearts Not Laws.

bumper sticker and slogans..

LOTS OF THEM

organizations that push ideas like this

[PurityOfEssence]

36. Yep. It's the great, enduring, unstoppable evil of mankind

As more and more people compete for less and less resources, as the powerful get an ever-larger piece of the pie, and as life gets more confusing, fundamentalism will only increase its choke-hold on the world. Conservatism offers answers and simplicity, and religion is it's truest form. Conservatism claims to have the answer, and that's what many people want.

It's sad.

It's scary.

[mumon]

37. You're in the right direction...

We must come up with some powerful ways to frame religion to our benefit, and get the "moral" vote back where it belongs...with the party of truth, justice and fairness.

But we must do more.

I for one, think that what we should strive for is the, ahem, complete and utter destruction of the Republican Party as we know it.

I can still say that, right?

To do that, we need a new American Revolution.

Here's one paradigm:

Mao's populist proclivities increasingly drew him from the cities to the countryside—and from the proletariat to the peasantry. Mao was not the only, nor the first, Chinese Communist to discover the revolutionary potentialities of the peasantry, but he did of course prove to be the most important. During the years 1925–1927, he devoted the greater portion of his prodigious energies to detailed investigations of rural socioeconomic conditions, to the organization of peasant associations, and (under Nationalist auspices) to the training of a peasant organizational cadre.


Folks, stop thinking as fundamentalist Christians or red-state Republicans as the enemey- you want to change their minds and votes.

To do that, we will need organizations and structures that actually speak to them, and that they recognize as helping them.

[CitySky]

38. "born again"

is not a political affiliation. It's a Biblical imperative. ("I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit... you should not be surprised at my saying 'You must be born again.'" - John 3:3, 7)

Turns out that looking after orphans and widows is also a Biblical imperative. So is turning the other cheek. Taking care of the plank in your own eye before trying to deal with the speck in your brother's. Loving God and your neighbor. And so on.

"Born again," like Christianity itself, has been hijacked in the political discourse. I self-identify as "born again" in the Zogby questionnaire because, theologically speaking, that is where I am. That does NOT mean I agree with these people politically.

[MattG]

42. A really great website for Democrat Christians is . . .

www.publicchristian.com

All kinds of essays and articles, with scripture that denounce Bush and support Kerry and Democrats. It also has a lot of stuff that appeals to your pro-life and anti-gay marriage peeps.