Question, What is Dean's military Record?

[retyred]

Not that it's important, but I haven't heard it mentioned here before, did he serve?




Retyred IN FLA.
“Good Night Paul, Wherever You Are”

[tjdee]

1. He has an unfused vetebra, got a medical deferment.

You're also going to hear he went skiing after this deferment, which is true, but a fact is a fact. The military classified him 1-Y (I believe that's the proper classification). They turned him away.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Yep.

I think the reason he was deferred is because the back problem would have interfered with toting around 60 lbs + of equipment, etc. My husband also had a 1Y deferment (undeveloped blood vessles between heart and lung) that appears not to have hindered what he did later in life (and he did try and get in the Navy but was turned down).

[w4rma]

7. Dean on the 1-Y deferment that was given to him

Dean: First of all, let me say that there’s only one person who’s contending for the Democratic nominee for president who did serve in the military, nomination for president, and then let me explain the circumstances of my draft classification. I went to my physical in Ft. Hamilton in Brooklyn, which was a great deal like the scene out of Alice’s Restaurant in terms of the different sizes, shapes, colors, and all kinds of people were there. I was given an examination. I had a previous back problem, which is evidently congenital, which prevented me from doing any sustained running, a problem that I’ve had since then, since that time, which requires that when I get out of the car I often have some pains up and down my leg and back and so forth. But I have been able to exercise at—ry vigorous athletic life except for some things. One of those is long-distance running, which is how the problem came to my attention in the first place. I noticed the pain when I was in high school running track. In any case, the—after the physical, I received a one Y deferment. That’s how the United States government decided that they would use me. One Y deferment means you can only be called in times of national emergency. I didn’t have anything to do with choosing any draft deferment. I didn’t try to get out of the draft. I had a physical. The United States government said this is your classification. I’m not responsible for that. I didn’t have anything to do with the decision. That was their choice.

Russert: A military physical.

Dean: Yeah. I had a military physical. I had a draft induction physical in Ft. Hamilton. I think it was, perhaps, during my senior year. I don’t remember the exact date.

Russert: If called, you would have served?

Dean: Of course.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp

[Eloriel]

21. w4rma

I just have to hand it to you. You always do a fab job of defending Dean against all these attacks with great resources.

Tip o' the hat AND a

:toast:

Eloriel

[w4rma]

26. Dean is pretty easy to defend. There is barely any ammo against him. (n/t)

:toast:

[Renew Deal]

31. Asking for trouble

You are asking for trouble posting this. I can dig up all kinds of junk, as well as others can. He isn't perfect and there are things in Dean's record that can be scrutinized.

[JohnKleeb]

2. he didnt serve and not important

My guy didnt serve either but I feel he might had if he didnt have a heart condition. You see he was a poor kid and two of his brothers and father served too.

[ComerPerro]

3. It all should be irrelevant

The current President didn't serve. Hopefully, because of Bush's exceedingly cowardly dodge of Vietnam, this won't become an issue.

[ElephantHunter]

8. Didn't serve?

Of course Bush served! How else does one go AWOL unless they are serving?

From 1968 to 1971, Bush served over 500 days in the Guard.

Don't like Bush? Fine, just don't lie about his record. Read about it here
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

[ComerPerro]

9. Fine, semantics

"Both Bush and his aides have made numerous statements to the effect that Bush fulfilled all of his guard obligations. They point to Bush's honorable discharge as proof of this. But the records indicate that George W Bush missed a year of service. "


How god damn convenient for him. Its nice that the military, while instituting a draft, lets people not show up for a year if they don't feel like it.


On Edit: By the way, I don't know about you, but I don't consider Bush's actions "serving". I don't think showing up occasionally for duty in the US while his less privelaged peers are dying in Vietnam can qualify at all as anything but cowardace. At least those who dodged the draft entirely had the balls to go all out. They didn't hide in a position their daddy gave them. And I haven't seen any of them parade around on the deck of a Air Craft carrier after landing on the deck (as the passenger of a real pilot) and dressed in full military apparel. I don't see them pretending to be war heroes. I don't see them describing themselves as a "fighter pilot in Vietnam". And I most certainly don't see them promoting action figures of themselves that were made in China.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[caledesi]

24. First of all, Clinton didn't "run off to Europe"

He was a Rhodes Scholar. Do you understand what that means? There are about 20 (count them 20) student in the US that are chosen to be Rhodes Scholars (you have to be smart; I mean REALLY smart).

Preach hate for America? Where did you get that notion? He was against the Vietnam War...which we now know what right on target. It's the biggest travesty that we have even had in the US. It was wrong and we lost, what? Over 50,000 troops, and for what?

* went AWOL - plain and simple. Just why can't he account for that year? He's a phoney! Just like the Top Gun photo op....a complete phoney, but the military are finally seeing thru this little charade.

Support our troops? Yeah, while * is cutting their Vet benefits even as they risk their lives. Nice guy, huh?

[chaumont58]

10. He served allright!

The AirForce spent a quarter of a million dollars to teach the son of a bitch how to fly an obsolete airplane, F102s. He then proceeded to patrol the skys of West Texas, keeping it safe from VC overflights. Besides, Tweety just loves the way Bush looks in a flight suit, especially one with a sock in the crotch.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

14. Umm, he never saw combat

and he plays the war hero. What a fucking idiot.

[MODemocrat]

34. Actually, I think Bush is pathetic when he plays the role of Hero

If that puke hadn't been born into a family of wealth, he would be no better than a back alley bum. He's never "worked" a day in his life.

[Woodstock]

16. He got a cushy assignment thanks to dear old Dad

He was unqualified to be a pilot, but was bumped to the top of a long waiting list and safely put out of harm's way, anyway, thanks to Dad specifically asking his connections in the military to look out for him. After asking for an even cushier job (with the post office as I recall) and being turned down, he went AWOL for a year, and after returning for a period of days, was discharged 6 months early. He lied repeatedly about his "service" and his lies were repeatedly contradicted by his commanding officers. Apart from Joe Conason's recent book, here's another place to look:

http://www.awolbush.com/

[Clete]

19. So you now admit that he actually went AWOL

and got an honorable discharge anyway because of poppy's influence? Why didn't he serve any time in the brig? Who got sent to Nam in his place? Inquiring minds want to know?

[RetroLounge]

27. I'm sorry, did you make a wrong turn?

eom

[karlschneider]

32. I see you are being flamed by people who can't read. Don't worry.

And welcome to DU.
edit: I fucked up. good riddance to this asshole.
:eyes:

[Skittles]

33. HE DIDN'T F***ING SERVE

He was there and then he wasn't but don't EVEN say he f***ing SERVED. :puke:

[Renew Deal]

5. The short of it.

He had a back problem as others mentioned. There is one little problem though. He went skiing for 8 days after being differed. It is portrayed by some as disingenuous. I don't think it was a big deal, but that's out there. The Dean sites should have all the info you need on this. http://deandefense.org/archives/000706.html

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

12. His back problem

keeps him from running long distances (soldiers must be able to run distances). Dean skis and hikes, and actually got his political start fighting to have bike paths developed in VT.

[GalleryGod]

13. Rove will have Skiing Pix up next Fall

:spank:

[ComerPerro]

15. I think you are right

Suddenly, these same people who worship Bush as a war hero (despite his decision to just not show up) will start getting offended by Deans lack of military service. Have you ever read Free Republic? They are still pissed about Clinton dodging the draft.

And here is the problem with the AWOL issue: They have convinced themselves that Bush was away on a top secret mission for the CIA. I am not kidding.

[ElephantHunter]

18. no...

The "issue" is this: anyone that knows ANYTHING about the military knows that AWOL is an offical declaration put on your record. AWOL is not you deciding he should have been there.

Since Bush was NEVER declared AWOL by the military, and his record shows YEARS of service before the "questionable" time period, the right sees that as LIGHT YEARS ahead of draft dodgers.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. And most THINKING, RATIONAL people (i.e. not your pals in Freeperville)

see that as his father buying him out of another potential situation where he could be jailed. Like his cocaine possession.

[MODemocrat]

36. Yes, He thanks you Daddy Bush for having his record doctored

Just think what money can do. The Bushes can buy anything they want, and that includes getting the pinhead appointed as president.

[eileen from OH]

29. I know you said you weren't kidding. . .

but please say you WERE. I know there are die-hard Bushinistas, but there is really no way that ANYONE could believe that. But if so, then maybe we DO need proficiency exams to get out of high school after all, 'cause these people are dumb as a box o rocks.

eileen from OH

[MODemocrat]

35. Clinton did not dodge the draft, he had a high number

My son had a high number in the draft lottery, and was never called to duty. That did not make him a draft dodger.

[bfusco]

6. isn't an issue

I agree his service is not important. The criticism should occur when ultra-hawkish politicians avodied servcie such as shrub. TO me there is nothing wron with someone who opposed a conflict to avoid it.

[proud patriot]

11. Dean did not serve for the above mentioned "back problem"

In my heart of hearts I believe he would of served had he not been disqualified . His brother was killed in Laos .

Here's a snip from a googled article:

Dean turned to medicine and politics after family tragedy
In 1974, Dean's 24-year-old brother Charlie went traveling down the Mekong River in Laos when he and a friend were captured and summarily executed as spies by some local guerrillas. The family went into shock. Not long after his brother's death, Howard Dean decided to become a doctor.
More than a few people believe that, marked by the family tragedy, Howard Dean looked for a career that was both more serious and more altruistic. He resists that easy explanation. However, when he talks about his brother, there is little of the brashness that otherwise so animates his conversation. His voice goes so low and so dark that you wonder, when he expresses his dislike for ideologues, whether he's simply referring to the extremes of the American political parties or, more deeply, to those ideologues who walk the jungle with their rifles at the ready.

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Principles_+_Values.htm

[Octafish]

20. The question IS relevant.

If the Democrats are to shed the label of being "Soft on National Defense," they will need to nominate a candidate with the credentials of military service. In post-9-11 America, the nation's security is on a lot of people's minds.

For those too young to remember, we DEMs faced a similar situation in 1992. All sorts of support and money went to the candidate that many people thought would be the easiest to label as a draft-dodger and womanizer, Bill Clinton. Jackson (BCCI) Stephens and Ms. Averell (Prescott Bush luvs Nazis) Harriman supported him over other candidates, like then-Sen. Bob Kerrey (D-NEB) and then-Gov. Mario Cuomo (D-NY).

It seems then, like today, the idea was to nominate the weakest DEM for a Bush-media to mangle. So, today, all sorts of support is heading to a person who was not medically fit to draft.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

22. IF what you said is true

and we MUST nominate a military guy, Kerry supporters must be afraid of Clark entering the race. He will steal away much of the support Kerry has from people who support him largely on his military service.

[Octafish]

28. Can't speak for everybody or Sen. Kerry. I would WELCOME Gen. Clark.

From the perspective of this supporter of Sen. Kerry, the field of DEM candidates can be expanded to include the General. His experiences and perspectives would help the public discover there is more to the Democratic Party than the media show.

From what I know of Sen. Kerry, he would welcome Gen. Clark, as well. There would be another primary opponent to contrast his experiences and vision for the nation's future. Plus, IMO, Kerry would be able to differentiate himself in a way that would show the public he is more than simply a Congressional friend of the armed forces or a war hero.

So, yeah! The more the merrier.

[quinnox]

25. Exactly

The Dems must nominate a candidate with strong foreign policy and military credentials, the only one in the race that has both is Kerry.

He is the best choice, with perhaps Edwards as the second best choice because of the southern factor.

[eileen from OH]

30. Depends on what you mean. . .

by military and foreign policy credentials. I'm kinda fond of common sense credentials meself. I like John Kerry, but his tap-dancing around his vote on Iraq diminishes said "credentials."

I mean, he basically said on MTP that he was sandbagged by the President re: the Iraq vote. Forgive me if I'm a tad nervous about someone who was fooled like that by a fellow American. Don't know as I'd have a whole lot of confidence in him dealing with a foreign power if he's that gullible.

eileen from OH