I just got this from my Dad

[devilgrrl]

Gee whiz, how do I respond to this? As much as love him, he never served in the military, what does he know. :mad:

I've edited names in the initial message, plus there was no link provided to the article.

=================

XXXXXX and YYYYYYY

Please read this with an open mind.

I don't really discount your liberal points of view but please give me some due that at least a little wisdom comes with age and experience.

ZZZZZZ

==================

Subject: An interesting report from IRAQ

A Marine reports from Iraq, where things are far better than the media
let on.

BY JOHN R. GUARDIANO
Tuesday, August 19, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

AL HILLAH, Iraq--There's more to America than New York, Washington and
Los Angeles. The same is true for Iraq; there's a vast country outside
Baghdad and the "Sunni triangle" that's now the center of a guerrilla
campaign. It's understandable that Western press reports are fixated on
attacks that kill American soldiers. But that focus is obscuring what's
actually happening in the rest of the country--and it misleads the
public into thinking that Iraqis are growing angry and impatient with
their liberators.

In fact, there is another Iraq that the media virtually ignore. It is
guarded by the First Marine Division, and, unlike Baghdad, it has been
a model of success. The streets are safe, petty and violent crime are
low, water and electrical services are almost universally available
(albeit rationed), and ordinary Iraqis are beginning to clean up and
rebuild their neighborhoods and communities. Equally important, a deep
level of mutual trust and respect has developed between the Marines and
the populace here in central and southern Iraq.

I know because I'm one of those Marines. My reserve unit was activated
before the war, and in April my team arrived in this small city roughly
60 miles south of Baghdad. The negative media portrait of the situation
in Iraq doesn't correspond with what I've seen. Indeed, we were treated
as liberating heroes when we arrived four months ago, and we continue
to enjoy amicable relations with the local populace.

The "Arab Street" I've meet in Iraq loves--that's not too strong of a
word--America and is deeply grateful for our presence. Far from
resenting the American military, most Iraqis seem to fear that we will
leave too soon and that in our absence the Baath Party tyranny will
resume. This sentiment is readily apparent whenever we venture into the
city. We don't make it far outside of our camp before throngs of happy,
smiling children greet us.

"Good, good!" they yell, as they run into the street, often oblivious
to oncoming traffic. They give us a hearty thumbs-up and vigorously
wave and pump their hands. They are eager to see us and to talk with
us. To them, it is clear, we are heroes who liberated them from Saddam
Hussein.

"Bush good, Saddam bad!" many Iraqis tell us emphatically--and
repeatedly. I'm not sure how George W. Bush is faring with the American
public, but he's got a lock on Al Hillah.

Iraqis routinely ask me to "thank Mr. Bush for freeing us of Saddam"
and tell me, "We are very grateful, because you have freed us of our
worst nightmare, Saddam Hussein." (A lot of Iraqis speak surprisingly
good English because most studied it in primary and secondary school.)

It all reminds me of my experience a decade ago in Eastern Europe and
the former Soviet Union. Most ordinary Russians, Poles and Czechs
hailed Ronald Reagan as a hero for bringing down the "evil empire" when
few people had the courage even to call it that.

In much the same way, ordinary Iraqis have a tremendous reservoir of
goodwill for the president who coined the term "axis of evil"--and who
then acted to eradicate a primary source of that evil.

The Iraqis know who their foes are too. Two Iraqi children once
spontaneously shouted to me, "France, Chirac!" while giving the
thumbs-down sign and shaking their heads disapprovingly. The children
quickly smiled and shouted "Bush!" while punching the sky.

"We are very glad that you are here and we hope you never leave," Zaid,
a 31-year-old mechanical engineer, told me. "If you leave, then there
will be more trouble. The Bath Party thugs will take over."

Zaid makes a decent living selling pirated American movies. He enjoys
sophisticated dramas like "The Shawshank Redemption" and "Saving
Private Ryan." But most Iraqis, he notes, prefer action-packed
adventures starring Sylvester Stallone, Jean-Claude Van Damme and
Arnold Schwarzenegger. (Mr. Van Damme especially is quite popular with
Al Hillah children.)

This is not to say that everyone here likes America, nor that Al Hillah
is problem-free. Iraq, after all, is still quite poor and suffering
from the aftershocks of Baathist rule and economic isolation. One of
the biggest problems is looters who steal oil from pipelines and parts
from electrical generators to sell on the black market. The country
needs more electrical power plants and a better police force.

There are more than 15,000 unemployed ex-Iraqi soldiers in Al Hillah
and the surrounding Babil Province. When these soldiers discovered that
the U.S. was making interim payments to local municipal employees, they
demanded similar financial compensation. A small number of these
soldiers even staged a protest at city hall.

The soldiers' complaint was not that the United States is too heavily
involved in Iraqi affairs. They were instead complaining that we are
doing too little to help them. They want more help, not less; they seek
greater engagement, not a withdrawal of American military forces. The
difficulties here aren't the result of the U.S. being heavy-handed.
Rather, they result from our inability to bring greater resources to
bear.

The news from Baghdad, Tikrit, Fallujah and Ramadi--the Sunni
triangle--suggests a bleaker image because these areas are very
different politically, religiously and culturally from the rest of the
country.

Politically, greater Baghdad is populated with people who owe their
privileged status in life to Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party. Most
Iraqis, by contrast, were brutally oppressed by Saddam. Religiously,
greater Baghdad is heavily Sunni. Iraq, by contrast, is two-thirds
Shiite, and Al Hillah is 99% Shiite. Culturally, greater Baghdad is
relatively secular, political and cosmopolitan. The nation as a whole
is more religious, apolitical and insular.

It helps, too, that we Marines have maintained a friendly and visible
presence in Iraqi neighborhoods and bazaars. The bottom line: In the
Marine-administered towns and provinces in the south, the Iraqi "Arab
Street" is mostly docile, compliant and eager to engage rather than
shun the West.

As my experience in Al Hillah shows, most ordinary Iraqis are in no way
disillusioned with the U.S. What they want--and need--is greater help.
This will necessitate a sustained military presence here until the
seeds for economic growth and development have taken root.

For that I know the men, women and children of my Arab street are
grateful. As Zaid has told me, "It will take 10 to 15 years for Iraq to
become a normal country. It is important during that time that the
United States be here to help us." Semper fidelis, Zaid.
----
Lance Cpl. Guardiano is a field radio operator with the U.S. Marine
Corps' Fourth Civil Affairs Group and, as a civilian, defense editor of
Rotor and Wing magazine.

[pruner]

1. here's a link to where that came from (WSJ Opinion Journal)

http://chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=3938&catcode=10

point your dad to these links which show that 3 days after that editorial appears a member of the 1st MEF was killed at Al Hillah, exactly in the area from which Giordano reports.:

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20030822-0390.html
http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.md.huffman23aug23,0,1855968.story?coll=bal-local-headlines
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/August/23/local/stories/01local.htm

[proud patriot]

2. Excellent link pruner

Thanks :hi:

[pruner]

3. you're welcome.

:)

[Eloriel]

9. It's also worth pointing out

tho I don't have any links, that different areas have different problems and differing severity of problems.

Eloriel

[FDRLincoln]

4. i've heard similar reports

I've heard similar reports....I have a friend who is a Marine, currently serving in Iraq, though his unit is expected to pull out shortly. In the area he is in, all is quiet....electricity is back on, water is back on, schools are in session, and the locals are, for the most part, cooperative. There have been no attacks in his area.

My friend says that there are serious problems in other areas...the closer you get to Baghdad, the worse it is. He also says that the Army seems to have a much more difficult time keeping things under control than the Marines...the Army guys are having more supply problems, don't seem to get along with the local populace as well, and seem to have worse leadership. But in his area, things are OK.

[Julien Sorel]

8. It was similar in Vietnam.

The Marines did a much better job of pacification, 'winning hearts and minds,' than the Army did. I'm not exactly sure why that is. Of course, in this case the Marines are getting an easier task than the Army has, so the comparison isn't all that fair.

By the way, the article misses the point. I want weapons of mass destruction! I want imminent threat! I want Saddam Hussein with his finger on the button of some kind of monstrous weapon. I want a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. In other words, I want what whistle-ass promised the nation he would deliver, the God damned liar.

[cherryperry]

5. How about something like:

Dear Dad,

Thank you for sending the article on Iraq. I did read it with an open mind as you requested. Please rest assured I definitely do accord you my respect for more than just the wisdom you have acquired with age and experience!

More importantly, Dad, is that I love you; I always have and I always will. I am so pleased that you also wrote that you don't discount my liberal point of view. That is the way I feel and your respect for me is exactly what I need as well. I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart; if you're still a liberal when you're 40, you have no brain!" Well, I know nothing of being 40 yet, but I do know I have a heart and I am a liberal right now. Okay?

Let's keep communicating this way.

Love, XXXXX

[sasquatch]

10. That's the wrong quote

"if you're not a liberal in your twenties you have no heart, if you're still a liberal in your forties you have no brain". That is the wrong goddamned quote. That quote has been misquoted by FReepers and media whores like Thomas Friedman. The actual quote is "if you're not a radical in your twenties you have no heart, if you're still a radical in your forties you have no brain".

That's the actual quote and I can't stand reading Thomas Friedman.

[zeemike]

13. Deja Vue all over again

I can remember reading the same kind of stories about Vietnam; how the Vietnamese were glad we were there to help them. And some were, but the rest wanted to kill us.

But it is good that you remind your dad that you still love him.

[mhr]

6. With All Due Respect Dad

This sounds like propaganda written to be consumed by Americans like yourself, people that so ardently want to believe in Bush as a political Savior.

Many Americans still ignore the fact that Bush lied to get the American public to support his invasion. How you and others can discount the thousands of innocent Iraqis that died because Bush lied about uranium, the non-existent threat from Saddam, and the equally non-existent link to terrorists is beyond me.

Look at the little dead Iraqi girl in this photo and tell me her life was worth the salve on your conscious because you believe Bush is a hero.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=4590365&selected=456200

Sorry Dad, you were and are wrong!

Please keep your propaganda at home.

[WilliamPitt]

7. Send him this in response

I spoke last week with a woman named Jodie Evans, long-time peace activist and organizer of a group called the International Occupation Watch Center, or IOWC. The purpose of the IOWC is to stand as watchdogs in Iraq over the corporate contracts being doled out, and to view in person what is happening to the Iraqi people. "I think that if you were against the war, then you need to be there," said Evans, "because there is no one in Iraq who is for the Iraqi people, and the people know it. They know it."

Evans had just returned from Baghdad. Upon her arrival to the city, she saw the demonstrable chaos caused by the war, and by the abject failure to repair the country in the aftermath. "It was 120 degrees, it was dusty, the air had a haze that makes everything gray," said Evans. "The buildings you see on the road are bombed out. In some, you can see the fire coming up. In some, you only see the scaffolding of contorted metal. We got across our bridge and turned right onto the street we know so well, the one we've stayed on, and every building was either boarded up or bombed out, including the United Nations DP. It was all bombed in, the windows were black from the fire."

"Immediately after we arrived," said Evans, "we hear that it is not only worse than before the war. It is worse than during the war. People are upset, people are angry. There were lots of stories about how the Americans are doing this on purpose. A month after the '91 war, which was much worse than this one, everything was back and working. Now, the people live in this chaos they can't even imagine. People can't go outside. Women haven't left their homes. Lots of people haven't come back from Syria or Kuwait or wherever they fled to get away from the bombing, because life in Iraq is unlivable. There is 65% unemployment, and even the doctors and nurses and teachers who are going to work don't get paid, so there's no money."

Evans met a number of Americans in Iraq who are part of the 'rebuilding process.' One such person was in the Compound, a guarded palace that is now home to Bremer's office and staff along with a number of other groups. The overall organization is called the Iraqi Assistance Center, or IAC. The man Evans met was a professor of religion and political theory at a religious college in America. He explained that his job was to collect intelligence for Bremer.

"That professor I spoke to, the one doing intelligence for Bremer, I told him that I had spoken to countless Iraqis and all of them felt this chaos was happening on purpose," said Evans. "He basically said this was true, that chaos was good, and out of chaos comes order. So what the Iraqis were saying - that this madness was all on purpose - this intelligence guy didn't discredit. He said, 'If you keep them hungry, they'll do anything for us.'"

"I met the man who was hired to create a new civil government in Baghdad, to bring Baghdad back to order," said Evans. "His name was Gerald Lawson. I asked him what his background was that allowed him to get this job. He said he was in the Atlanta Police for 30 years. I asked how this gave him the ability to create a stable, civil government. He said he was a manager. I asked him what he knew about Iraqis. He knew nothing, and didn't care to know anything. He didn't know their history, their government, didn't speak a word of Arabic and didn't care to learn. This guy doesn't work for the American government, doesn't work for the State Department, and doesn't work for the CPA. He works for a corporation created by ex-Generals. Their job is to create the new Iraqi government structure."

"We met the man whose job is to make sure the hospitals have what they need," said Evans. "He is a veterinarian. We met a British guy who showed up at the Compound gates one day and said he was a volunteer who wanted to help. The next day he was named the head of rubbish control in Baghdad, which is a huge problem there because there is garbage all over the street. I asked him what he had been doing with his time. He said he'd been hanging out at Odai's palace playing with the lions and the cheetahs. I met the guy in charge of designing the airport, where major jumbo jets are supposed to land. He had never designed an airport before."

"Another man I spoke to associated with this process is named Don Munson," said Evans. "His job is civilian affairs policy. He said to me, 'We are replacing one dictatorship with another.' He's there for two years, and he works in the palace on the first floor."

"Remember," said Evans, "that the first thing America did was to fire 80,000 police officers. These guys weren't associated with the Hussein regime. That's like connecting a cop in LA to the Bush administration. All the people I've talked to over there, the ambassadors and others, said they warned Bremer not to do that. The cops knew who the criminals were, and 80,000 cops are gone. So now there are these little mafias that run neighborhoods. With no other work and no way to survive, people are going to become criminals. The borders are wide open - we didn't even get stopped when we came in - so everything is just flowing into Iraq."

"A friend of mine's husband is an ambassador," said Evans. "I asked him if this was normal operating procedure. He said that, basically, no one will work on this Iraq project who has any respect for their work or career, because it is so clearly a farce. He said that later we will go in after these guys have blown it, but right now with Bremer there it is a farce. Even the press is over there are just shaking their heads and asking, can anyone fail so badly? Can anybody make so many mistakes? You can't imagine they can be so dumb."

"One Iraqi woman I spoke to," said Evans, "said she feels like Iraq is a wounded animal, and everyone is coming in to take their piece of flesh."

From here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/072103A.shtml

Remind him not to believe everything that comes through his email. I actually spoke with this person, who was actually there for the second time.

[antineocon1]

11. I did a bit of investigation into Guardiano and he's a

media whore for big business. He wrote an article defending coors after they were sued for racism and sexual harrassment. He's also written a couple of articles touting the greatness of free trade. I'm sure if you did some more digging, you could come up with even more on this guy. The Bushies probably placed him in an area they knew would be fairly quiet so he could write this tosh.

[punpirate]

12. He's also written about...

... the great value in privatizing firefighters. Wonder how the NYC firefighters would take to being run by Dyncorp and having a toothless union, or no union at all....

He may be partly right about the specific area he's writing about, but given that a Marine was killed in the same area he's writing about, six days after his article appeared in the Wall Street Journal, it's not that perfect (believe the Marine killed was a lieutenant and an Annapolis graduate).

Note that while he's a lance corporal, he's in a civil affairs unit....

This guy, by both temperament and background, can be expected to put the best spin possible on a bad situation. Notice he doesn't mention any of the things that the US is doing that most Iraqis are unhappy about.

I would also consider the source--this wasn't written for his home town paper (a sort of soldier's letter home); it was in the Wall Street Journal. If that paper wanted to ease investors' fears about companies doing business in Iraq, it would make sense to publish something like this.

Cheers.