Someone had better be talking exit strategy for Iraq right now

[NNN0LHI]

Because if someone doesn't there there won't be anyone left to put our soldiers into bady bags, because they are all going to be dead soon. You mark my word. That is whats going to happen. Anyone who thinks any different is delusional.

Don

Iraqis Mourn Cleric; Brother Blames U.S.

NAJAF, Iraq - About 400,000 mourners took to the streets Tuesday, flailing their backs and pounding their chests in anguish at the funeral of a leading Shiite cleric assassinated in a car bomb attack. In Baghdad, another car bomb exploded outside police headquarters, killing one and wounding 13.

In an angry funeral oration, the cleric's brother blamed the U.S. occupation forces for the lax security that led to the attack at Iraq's most sacred Shiite mosque. He raged against the American troops and demanded they leave Iraq.

Men clad in white robes and dark uniforms brandishing Kalashnikov rifles stood guard along the roof of the gold-domed Imam Ali mosque, where Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim was killed Friday in the bloodiest attack since the fall of Saddam Hussein. Accounts of the death toll ranged from more than 80 to more than 120.

"The occupation force is primarily responsible for the pure blood that was spilled in holy Najaf, the blood of al-Hakim and the faithful group that was present near the mosque," said Abdel-Aziz al-Hakim, the ayatollah's brother and a member of the U.S.-picked Governing Council.

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[stoystown]

1. Exit Strategy: Vote Democratic

That's the only realistic one.

[NNN0LHI]

2. It will be too late n/t

[Droopy]

3. I don't know about delusional

Maybe mis- or uninformed.

It is becoming clearer by the day that this mess is going to take a lot longer to clean up than anticipated. And, like you say, may become impossible to clean up. I'm with you on bringing the troops home now.

Remember back before the war started what Paul Wolfowitz said? He said we'd be in Iraq for 6 months to 1 year after the war. Did he lie or was he just incompetent?

[killbotfactory]

4. Exit strategy? Huh?

What's that? During the lead up to war no one ever mentioned it. Are you sure you didn't make that term up?

[Clete]

5. Howard Dean is.

He says he will get the UN and NATO involved, then he will start withdrawing troops once they are replaced by troops from other nations. He also said there were many diplomatic fences to be mended to get the world back on a path of peace. I agree with him.

[NNN0LHI]

6. The UN or NATO are not going to fall into this trap

Dean and everyone else had better figure that out soon.

Don

[ComerPerro]

9. They might if we don't have Smirk's

arrogant, condescending, rude ass in there pissing everyone off.

I think a big problem is that Bush is such a wreckless cowboy and no one in NATO or the UN really wants to bail him out. Backing him would be political suicide for the leaders of many countries.

[Clete]

10. I respect your assessment, but I also respect

Howard Deans thoroughness in investigating matters and forming decisions on them. I think he has already has his feelers out and has gotten positive feedback. I know said agencies will not budge for Bush, but I think will be more agreeable with a change of regime. Kofi Annan has already spoken about what is needed and has stated that the UN would be willing if control of the rebuilding of Iraq is taken from the Americans and given to them.

[Droopy]

14. I dig the picture in your sig line, Clete

I just wanted to say that.

[Clete]

29. Thanks.

Xena's cool isn't she?

[Demobrat]

17. No way will they help out Bush.

But a Dem president with a clean slate could apologize for Chimpy and get them on board. Here's hoping.

[KittyWampus]

12. HAS DEAN MENTIONED GETTING HALLIBURTON OUT?

Because that's what is required before "civilized" countries will get involved... when there's an opportunity for them to make money off this fiasco rebuilding etc.

And just as importantly, nothing will work in Iraq until some of the Iraqis are included as well.

Chalibi's drones are so unsuitable it's painful.

And there are plenty of Iraqi's perfectly capable of running both the business and government ends.

[Clete]

18. If the UN or some other coalition takes over,

I think it's a foregone conclusion that the contracts will be put up for bids and Halliburton out. With no power in the WH, Halliburton doesn't have an unfair edge anymore. As far as used carpet salesman Chalabi, I am sure he will find himself out of the loop if this happens.

[KittyWampus]

20. I Am Specifically Looking For A Dem Candidate Who'll Mention Halliburton

This is an issue which Bush and Cheney are VERY vulnerable.

It should be made the most of.

I suspect any Democratic candidate who fails to mention Halliburton.

And it'd be great for Chalabi's corruption and low standing in just about every diplomatic circle except the PNAC'ers to also be mentioned.

[Clete]

21. I think that time will come.

All the candidates are getting progressively more combative and critical of BushCo since Dean forged the way.

[dpbrown]

28. "no more sweetheart contracts for companies like Halliburton"

http://www.kucinich.us

U.N. Should Take Over Peace Keeping in Iraq

Congressman Kucinich issued the following statement on Iraq (August 25th):

"It is clear now that the United States is bogged down in an ongoing guerrilla war with almost daily casualties. The situation is one that the Administration did not plan for and is not adequately prepared to handle.

"Assertions by the President, and his Administration, that the war is over and that our mission was accomplished, like their claims about Iraq's 'vast stockpiles' of WMD's, are false and misleading. While this Administration was quick to send troops into harm's way, it has no exit strategy for removing US troops from the country.

"Negotiations for an exit must begin now. The UN must take over management, accounting and distribution to the Iraqi people of Iraq's oil profits. There must be no privatization of the Iraqi oil industry. The UN must handle the awarding of all contracts for the rebuilding of Iraq so that there can be no more sweetheart contracts for companies like Halliburton. Additionally, a transition from UN control to self-determined governing structure by and for the Iraqi people must be planned.

"It was wrong to go into Iraq. It is wrong to stay in Iraq. Let's support our troops by bringing them home."

[Robin Hood]

7. Here's the exit strategy.

Pull US out of Iraq, and continue to fund the rebuilding of their country and compensation for all the carnage we caused. leave the running of iraq to the Iraqi people. Then see if they will sell us oil for cheap.

If we are truly there to liberate and spread democracy, then respect Iraq's sovereignty. One of our contenders better start tacking this route or we will be screwed. What difference will there be between us and Bush if we continue to support this invasion?

[regnaD kciN]

24. That won't work, either...

Pull US out of Iraq, and continue to fund the rebuilding of their country and compensation for all the carnage we caused. leave the running of iraq to the Iraqi people.

If we do that now, with a power vacuum as they have at this time, the outcome will be civil war, resulting in either a majority Shi'ite government ramming the Iranian form of radical Islam down the throats of the Sunnis, Kurds, Christians, and anyone who prefers living in the 21st century, or we get Turkey, Iran, and Syria invading and each "liberating" a section of the country. In any event, the one or more Iraqs that result will all be virulently anti-American.

I always thought Saddam Hussein was like Marshall Tito in Yugoslavia -- a brutal despot, to be sure, but one who was able to hold together a country made up of mutually-hostile groups without letting one of them gain the upper hand. Once Tito died, we got ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, genocide in Kosovo, and the full breakup of what had been Yugoslavia into a bunch of little countries that are likely to be at war with each other for centuries to come. If the U.S. had been planning with brains rather than testosterone, they would have seen that the best course of action would be to tolerate Hussein and hope to influence change for the better after he was gone. But now it's too late for even that. Like it or not, once we got in, there really was no short-term exit strategy...the occupation must now be a long-term one, or disaster will surely follow.

The only hope I can see would be to internationalize the occupation, by bringing in the U.N. and handing over the policing duties to countries that weren't part of the invasion. But that would require Bush mending fences with France, Germany, and Russia, something I think Whistle-Ass is temperamentally incapable of doing. Anyway, considering the mess we're seeing now, do you think any country that wasn't a full participant in The Coalition Of The Willing is going to volunteer the lives of their soldiers to clean up our mess for us...a mess they vainly tried to stop us from creating?

:-(

[Robin Hood]

33. When France bailed us out against the British.

They didn't stick around and take over operations like the US has done. They left us to figure it out ourselves. And yes, we had a civil war. But that was our business, not our liberators business.

What do you call a liberator that won't go away? An occupier.

[Skittles]

8. the word is STRATEGERY, Don

and it ain't EVER gonna f***ing happen. Once that stupid little pinhead makes up his mind he NEVER changes it, remember? And he doesn't give a DAMN how many soldiers die, as long as they stop dying after March.

[Ripley]

11. If the death rate is 1.7 per day and there are 170,000

troops there, that means we are a long ways from exiting. The PNACers will never leave unless people are in the streets DAILY in this country protesting. When the majority of Americans actually realize this is more like Vietnam than WWII, they will change their minds. However, I think they have a high threshold for death numbers, and it may take thousands dead before they "get it."

[regnaD kciN]

13. Wait a minute...WE'RE to blame???

"The occupation force is primarily responsible for the pure blood that was spilled in holy Najaf, the blood of al-Hakim and the faithful group that was present near the mosque," said Abdel-Aziz al-Hakim, the ayatollah's brother and a member of the U.S.-picked Governing Council.

Those who have been arrested so far appear to be members of al-Qaeda. They're not exactly our allies. So why blame us rather than Osama (who, as a Sunni, doesn't particularly like Shi'ites)?

:wtf:

If the late Imam (recently dubbed a "moderate" despite his long-time backing of Iran's ayatollahs) used the same kind of "logic" we are hearing from his brother, one can only wonder what would have happened had he survived and wound up coming to power in Iraq...

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

16. The Occupation Force

is responsible for security under the UN Charter. If one country is going to take over another one militarily, they become responsible for EVERYTHING that happens in that country afterwards. That is why the UN always calls this an occupation, it was a choice the US made against the UN and the rest of the world. Therefore, we're Occupiers and have HUGE resonsibilities connected to that.

[Karenina]

19. Millions in the streets all over the globe

screaming, "Don't hit that tar-baby!" And what does *whistle-ass go and do? Never mind he had ample "intelligence there was a hornet's nest behind it...

When the perception in Iraq is the U.S. is to blame, there will be no holds barred.

[sandnsea]

15. We have to go to the UN

We have to change this occupation for our soldiers, the people of Iraq and the future security of Iraq. We can create a cooperative effort if we create a fair resolution that addresses UN concerns and puts the oil and the governing of Iraq under a shared authority. The UN can come in and take over the nation-building and humanitarian aspects that they do much better than we do. We can create more of a shared security, like we did in Kosovo. With our troops under US control, while cooperating within the UN or NATO. Once we commit to doing these things, other ME countries will be more inclined to help and that will be the beginning of changing the course of the situation in Iraq.

But I doubt this will happen with Bush, he doesn't care about anything except being a conquerer and having the spoils all to himself.

[htuttle]

22. As I've said before, here is their exit strategy

[smallprint]

25. that's exactly what i was thinking, htuttle

[NYC]

27. Is that the U.S. embassy in Vietnam?

?

[htuttle]

30. Yup

Just imagine the roof a little flatter like one of Saddam's palaces, and the image in color, and I think you have the shot we're going to see.

(with Chalabi at the head of the line carrying a suitcase full of gold bars...)

[Forkboy]

23. I agree completely

and the maddening part is they should have had one before they went in,the dumbasses :mad:

[RC]

26. Too late.

Saudi Crown Prince to Visit Moscow

"Energy issues are also expected to be high on the agenda. Saudi Arabia and Russia are the world's two largest oil exporters.

"Between them, there must be separate talks so that Saudi Arabian oil does not collide with Russian oil, and Russia does not start competition that could lead to a fall in (oil) prices," Isayev said.

According to Saudi sources, the two countries are also expected to discuss Iraq and Middle East peace progress. Riyadh hopes the visit will strengthen Russia's support to Arab causes, particularly the Palestinian issue."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-russia-saudi,0,2360980,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlinesSaudi


Gee, I wonder if they will discuss a use for those two perfectly good, freshly vacated military bases that sit on Saudi Arabian soil.
The US in Iraq is so tied up with survival, they can't keep their newly acquired oil flowing anywhere but on the ground. This could get interesting. You looking at bicycles yet?

[NNN0LHI]

32. Its later than you think

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3099445,00.html

Russia, Saudi Arabia Sign Oil Agreements

Tuesday September 2, 2003 7:59 PM


By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV

Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW (AP) - Russia and Saudi Arabia - the world's largest oil exporters - signed oil industry cooperation agreements Tuesday during a landmark visit to Moscow by the Arab kingdom's ruler.

The two sides also were expected to take up the sensitive question of whether rebels in the secessionist republic of Chechnya receive funding from Saudi charities.

Crown Prince Abdullah, who met with President Vladimir Putin, is the first Saudi head of state to visit post-Soviet Russia. A Saudi crown prince last visited in 1932.

``This day will go down in history as it opens a new era in the Saudi-Russian relations,'' the prince said during talks with Putin and other officials.

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[Jose Diablo]

34. This is just f***in great

We are really screwed now.

[sandnsea]

35. Yup

This country is totally screwed. Funny, my husband and I were just talking about the Russian oil this morning. He was wondering why Bush just didn't start dealing more with them. Now I can always say I'm married to a man smarter than the President! (well, I guess most other wives can say that too, shucks)

Now what? Get a moped? A bicycle? Plant winter crops? Buy a cow? How do you prepare for something like this?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. It was too late the day the first bomb fell in Afghanistan...

...and killed whoever we believed to be Taliban at the time.

When the Resident Squatter chose to invade Iraq, our fate in the Middle east was sealed. Thanks to our treatment of Afghani and Iraqi prisoners and the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in two different countries, three countries if you count Pakistan, we have turned an entire region into warriors for the Jihad.

It is going to get much worse before it gets better.

[StandWatie]

36. apologize and get the troops out?

Seems clear enough exit strategy to me :shrug:

[Karenina]

38. Sounds like a good idea to me!

:toast: First the troops out, then prosecute the *war profiteers, take our money back and lock the reptiles up. These predators are trying to get us all into a seriously fucked up and perhaps irreversible decline.
Does this train have state-of-the-art emergency brakes?

It would be a good start.

[dkf]

37. I bet a pull out is the October Surprise.

I think Bush needs to be out before the next election if he wants to win. Then the poor Dem is going to be arguing for keeping troops in, which will be against the American people because there'll be so much carnage by then.

If * had shown an ounce of responsibility prior to this, I'd think not, but I don't think he gives a damn about consequences, he just wants to win another term.

[Kbowe]

39. Strategy: US just up and leaves, blaming Clinton.

We leave the Islamics in charge, claim a victory and then focus on beating the hell out of the defenseless Palestinians making the huge pro-Israeli bloc in the US happy just before the election. It's very simple.

[welshTerrier2]

40. The Only Exit Strategy

there's a DU poll running on this question right now ...

the thread is here => http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=267113

the options in the poll range from increasing our troop strength to getting out immediately ... the most popular choice so far, however, is:


Announce all U.S. troops will be withdrawn in 6 months thus giving the U.N. adequate notice that they need to fill the power vacuum by sending in peace-keeping forces.


the simple truth is that there is no way, under any circumstances whatsoever, that any sort of peace can be achieved in Iraq as long as there is even one U.S. soldier remaining in the country. the U.N. can clearly see this ... george bush has destroyed any semblance of stability in Iraq ... the cheering crowds welcoming our troops that his warped mind conjured up will never exist there ...

the U.N. will not send in peace-keeping troops as long as there is a U.S. military presence in Iraq ... they probably would not have done so after the way bush turned his back on them before the war started ... they certainly will not do so now that bush has immersed us in another death-a-day quagmire ...

there is only one exit strategy for the U.S. ...we need to give the U.N. sufficient notice that we're getting out ... regardless of what we see as right or wrong, we cannot win the peace with american forces ... we are the oppressors in Iraq ... we are the occupiers ... our only option is to give notice to the U.N. and hope they fill the power vacuum ... if they do and they succeed in calming the situation that would be great ... if they don't or if they try and they fail, civil war and increased terrorism will result ... either way, the U.S. cannot be a military player in Iraq if peace is the goal ... we are doing nothing but spawning more hatred for the U.S. across the entire region.

Does anyone know whether any of the democratic candidates has taken this position? if not, they should ... it's the only path to peace ... there are too many in the Congress right now pushing for increased troop strength ... they are listening too closely to military tacticians and are failing to understand the passion of the Iraqis for independence and the hatred they have for the U.S. ... they need to understand the big picture ... not the "on the ground" military details ...