Another confession of a pro-gun Leftist

[bluestateguy]

I love to watch the look on their faces when I tell right wing loons that I am a pro-gun, anti-gun control Left winger. They quickly realize that we are not on the same team, even though we technically are on the same side of an issue. I tell them I oppose gun control because I want gays and non-whites to have guns so that they might defend themselves from attacks by hatemongers and Confederate flag waving yahoos, and that I don't trust this Administration in Washington to not abuse a database of every gun owner in America. Their sheepish response is always, "Oh, um, well, um...yeah"

[billbuckhead]

1. Let's give guns to the illegals coming over the border. They'll need 'em

Homeless people are really at risk. Let's give them the confiscated Ak47's from Iraq. More guns equal more civilization. NOT!

[Catch22Dem]

2. LOL

I love it.

[dudeness]

3. lol..

:)

[Iverson]

4. I have a dear friend like you.

And I'd just tell you what I tell him: gun control does not necessitate an all-or-nothing proposition.

[Muddleoftheroad]

13. Sad to say, it does

As threads here typically indicate, enough of the gun control advocates are really gun banners. (See Redeyes gun thread today for more evidence.) That means pro-gun folks can't reach common ground with anti-gun folks because the ground will keep moving on them.

[Terwilliger]

29. you're a "believer", a gunnie, AND you want to appeal to the right

What was Nader wrong about, exactly?

[Terwilliger]

28. it should

but you can't get neanderthals to look at society's problems before their precious RKBA

[slackmaster]

5. I favor sensible gun laws

I'm sure bluestateguy does too.

A majority of Americans favor sensible gun laws.

We just don't all agree on what constitutes sensible gun laws.

[Robb]

8. Well, goodness.

You've summed up quite a few issues, really. :)

A majority of Americans favor sensible "___" laws.
We just don't all agree on what constitutes sensible "___" laws.

[slackmaster]

16. I know it's true! I conducted my own poll on the Internet...

The question was:

"Are you a sensible person?"

97% answered Yes
2% answered No
1% answered Not sure

[MrBenchley]

26. Funny thing

Americans have no problem deciding what they want when presented with specific proposals...

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/new/gunrpt.htm


*Eighty-six percent of Americans, and three quarters of gun owners, want guns designed so that small children cannot fire them.
* Nearly three-quarters of Americans and majorities of gun owners support requirements that guns be stored locked and unloaded and that trigger locks be used.
* Sixty-three percent of Americans and 51 percent of gun owners back having all new handguns be personalized so that only the owner can fire them.
Require Background Checks on All Private Gun Sales: Nearly eight out of 10 Americans (79 percent) and two thirds of gun owners would favor a law that requires private gun sales to be subject to the same background check requirements as sales by licensed dealers.
*three-quarters of Americans (74.5 percent) think Congress should hold hearings to investigate the practices of the gun industry similar to the hearings held about the tobacco industry."

Furthermore:

"81% want both a background check and a five-day waiting period before a handgun may be purchased;
 80% endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 61% also want mandatory registration of longguns (rifles and shotguns);
73% believe that the sale of handgun ammunition should be regulated in the same way as the sale of handguns;
 70% agree that “the government should do everything it can to keep handguns out of the hands of criminals, even if it means that it will be harder for law-abiding citizens to purchase handguns;”
 71% are willing to pay more taxes to increase police patrols to reduce gun injuries;
 69% want imported guns that cannot be bought by citizens in their country of origin to be excluded from the American market, and 55% favor banning the importation of all civilian firearms;
 67% want to ban the sale of all high-capacity gun magazines;"

http://www.consumerfed.org/survey99.pdf

[Terwilliger]

30. obviously these people are paid shills for the anti-gun liberals

:eyes:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Lots of liberals believe in the Second Amendment

My personal take on it is that people who own guns should demonstrate they know how to use them before they are allowed to purchase them. After all, you have to take a driving test before you can drive a car! I also think that we should be sensible when it comes to guns-no one around here goes out with an AK-47 to hunt deer.

BTW, I get funny looks from freepers when I tell them my stance, too.

[KaraokeKarlton]

7. People don't hunt with guns like that

They mostly collect them or take them to firing ranges. There are alot of people who have guns they've never even fired. There are a lot of collectors like that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Driving test

We have driving tests, but then again, the right to drive does not exist, it is a privilige. The right to keep and bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution, so they don't equate.

[Bandit]

18. That is open to interpretation

For the sole purpose of maintaining a militia. A well regulated militia. The only right that so states "well regulated" You apparently want no regulation at all.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Classic

The liberal interpretation of all rights except the one you don't like. Sorry, the militia part is a separate entity. The amendment like others, addresses more than one issue.

[slackmaster]

21. And the militia can be interpred to mean all of the people

The population at large; everyone who is not a member of a standing army or navy.

It's in the United States Code:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Sec. 311. Next
Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes

(a)

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)

The classes of the militia are -

(1)

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia

[MrBenchley]

27. Only inn RKBA fantasy land

where "unorganized" is synonymous with "well regulated".

[Mairead]

31. "regulated" meant "trained"

A 'well regulated' militia was one whose members would turn out well-armed whenever needed, and shoot straight at the appropriate targets.

edit: (That's also where we get the term 'regular army')

[Bandit]

32. Okay so should we have training and registration?

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

33. The government has failed in its obligation to arm and train the militia

The only token government assistance is the Civilian Marksmanship Program, which I would wager very few readers here have ever even heard of:

http://www.odcmp.com

I'll bet a lot of you didn't realize the government sells semiautomatic high-powered military weapons to civilians.

[Terwilliger]

34. why shouldnt they? they sell arms to any nutcase that wants them

around the globe

[Mairead]

40. Actually, the general militia were expected to arm themselves

[Mairead]

42. Yes.

If you join your neighborhood militia company, you can buy and own any single-user weapons you want and are willing to keep qualified with. And the company can buy and own any multi-user weapons it wants. But once a month some NCO comes out and puts you and your company over the jumps. And if your squaddie-neighbors think you're a bit too loosely wrapped to be in the militia and have a machine gun (or whatever) in the house, then you've to go through an appeal process before you're allowed to go forward.

Fully Constitutional.

[DoNotRefill]

37. Where else in the Bill of Rights...

does the word "people" mean "state"?

[Mairead]

43. Nowhere, of course

[DoNotRefill]

36. People hunt with AK-47s around here.

Of course, they're the legal, semi-auto version instead of the machine gun version, and have to have a 5 round magazine instead of a 30 round magazine which is standard. They're legal to hunt things like deer with here, and are frequently used for that.

[LWolf]

44. I've always thought the same thing about

having kids. People should demonstrate some parenting skills before they're allowed to have them. Of course, being a public school teacher slants my view just a bit.

I don't have a strong position on gun control. I don't like the idea of hand guns. What are they for? Target practice and shooting people. I support the possession of guns for practical, non-felonious purposes.

[Kamika]

9. amen brother

Altough i dont mind some gun control, but never banning guns or anything like that.

As i always said its not the law abiding citizens that should be kept from guns.

[sendero]

10. exactly...

... I once used a nick of "armedliberal" on a more free-wheeling message board, and boy did that throw a wrench in their works.

It's time for the wingers to understand, being a liberal does not mean being anti-gun.

That said, I have no problem with reasonable controls on gun purchases. Background checks and the like do not seriously infringe on my right to own a firearm IMHO.

[BiggJawn]

11. "Waitaminnit...You're a DEMOCRAT!"

"You're supposed to want to take MY guns away from me!"
That's what I get told by the Ditto-Monkey Cargo-Cultists.

They were told that if Al Gore was the SITTING President (instead of President-in-Exile) that the FBI would come to their house and take their guns away.

They were also told that their kids would be "indoctrinated" and "made Gay" and they would be sent to "retraining camps", but that's another subject.

They can't fathom the idea of a Liberal who doesn't go "EWWWWWW!" when handed a firearm.

[Kamika]

12. I had almost forgot about that

I also rememer that..

"those darn democrats want to take mu guns away"


*to mods* that above is a quote i heard from republicans it is in no way something i said. Thank you

[Walt Starr]

14. The only way to protect our rights under the first amendment

is to exercise our rights under the second amendment.

This is one issue I am 100% behind Dean on!

[moondust]

17. Except that...

the "gays and non-whites (you) want to have guns so that they might defend themselves from attacks by hatemongers and Confederate flag waving yahoos" are often the kind of people who know that more violence is not the answer to violence, who aren't really interested in returning to the gunslinging wild west days of the 1800s. Many have moved on. Maybe somebody should call the cavalry?

[DoNotRefill]

39. try this:

http://www.pinkpistols.org

[Liberal Classic]

19. Re: want gays and non-whites to have guns

That's exactly why they need them. I commend you.

http://www.pinkpistols.org

[buddhamama]

22. i'm not pro or anti-gun

i am in between. there should be regulations, but i am not for taking people's guns away. i am a gun owner. i am responsible with it.

[David__77]

23. I'm with you: pro-Second Amendment.

Progressives should support the right to keep firearms. I think everyday we see new insights into why we can't surrender that right. I could be wrong, but I see a potential shift occurring on this issue in the coming period. If progressives would aggressively defend gun rights, I think also a main ideological weapon of the right would be neutralized.

[Terwilliger]

24. "pro-gun" leftist...just exactly what makes you leftist?

if you are pro-instruments-of-mass-destruction, why do you think your life is in service of the poor and the unempowered? So they can shoot each other?

[DoNotRefill]

41. I can't speak for him, but I consider myself a pro-gun leftist.

I base this on other issues, like being pro-choice, wanting a better education system, wanting an end to the war on drugs, wanting racial equality, wanting meaningful criminal justice reform, and things like that.

I may not be your idea of what a leftist should be because of being pro-gun, but if I went to a Republican convention and pushed my overall plan, I'd be lucky not to get lynched.

[not systems]

25. I'm for armed citizens

I think people of good will and liberal heart
should be armed. The rabid right should not
have a monopoly on armed self defence.

Think about the Pianist and you see why I
believed arming the oppressed is for the
better.

I heard the most tragic interview with an Iraqi family
in San Jose on the radio. He is a doctor and
his wife is a dentist they fled Iraq in 1993
to find a better life. They have a confederate
flag flying neighbor who has been terrorizing
them over several years. The DA will not press
meaningful charges even after gun fire. The
neighbors are supportive but if that wing nut
finally cracks and invades their home I hope
they can defend them self.

If you want to hear this story see:

http://www.flashpoints.net/

Tuesday, September 02, 2003

06:11 Dennis Bernstein talks with hate crime victims
Dr. Ayad and Leila Jindeel and neighbors.

[loudsue]

35. I don't think GUNS has anything to do with POLITICS.....

I'm very left when it comes to politics. But I'm also too independent when it comes to things I own -- I don't want anybody telling me what I can or can't own, what I can and can't smoke, how to live my life, what kind of "god" I can or can't believe in, or what I can or can't do with my body.

Because the next step is to tell me what I HAVE TO own (repukes idea is to force everyone to buy health insurance like we already have to own car insurance), HAVE TO smoke (air pollution),how I HAVE TO live (Ari Flescher's "watch what you say" mentality) , HAVE TO believe (repukes want courts to reflect biblical law), or what I HAVE TO carry in my womb (you guessed it).

As long as I don't hurt any other person, or violate THEIR rights by my actions, and as long as I contribute tax money for the general welfare of our country, I should be FREE to live as I please.

Having said that....people who have been found guilty of violating someone else -- violent crime offenders -- have already shown they are not willing/able to handle themselves non-violently in a community, and THEY should not be allowed to carry guns. When you don't act responsibly, you give up rights.

To me, it's a no-brainer. I'm for enforcing the laws that are already on the books. They provide a responsible way to assume our rights as citizens.

:kick:

[StandWatie]

38. I tell them I'm loaded up to kill them if they start acting out